Posts made by Thenomain
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RE: MU Flowchart
I have some good news and some bad news.
The good news: I do have a flattened copy of the last known copy of WORA and I found the link.
The bad news: It's PhotoBucket. I can't even look at it. I'm even having
somemany, many problems downloading, viewing, or even accessing the image. I even went as far as turning off ad blocking and turning off cookie tracking. PhotoBucket has become an absolute slog.The following is the text from the post, and the link, re-formatted for this forum. This is the flowchart, and the first post involving it.
Good luck.
Apathetic posted on Tue Mar 18 17:16:18 2008 in the thread "new nWOD game needs coder and staff"
Here, I made a handy flowchart for people wanting to create a MUSH. It can probably be improved, but there you go. Also, I may very well have used the wrong flowcharting symbols/etc, as flowcharting wasn't part of my education.
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(image link: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii192/Apathetic_Crusader/MUSHFlowchart.jpg) -
RE: Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?
@faraday said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
@Thenomain said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
@faraday said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
Except I think that these challenges are the same challenges faced by using existing IP: How to teach people to play.To an extent. But having created both original and existing IP games, my personal experience is that it's WAY easier to teach people to play when 80-90% of your player base comes through the door with a basic familiarity with the universe.
And I completely agree, which is why I wanted to note that all the games you noted were pretty generic at its base, and I threw in two of my own. Hell, even Amber, an established IP, can be described as: The rulers of the universe at the only true reality(-ies) of it.
I think that a one-paragraph hook and then about 2 (minimum) to 5 (maximum of my personal attention span) pages to get people into what the game world is about would serve a fantastic start to drawing people in. We should see this more.
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RE: Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?
@faraday said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
Having an original theme presents many extra challenges, no doubt, but these games prove that it's possible to succeed in spite of those challenges.
Except I think that these challenges are the same challenges faced by using existing IP: How to teach people to play.
Unlike @Sparks' experience, for instance, I think Arx is horrible at this.
(edit: Sorry, that's my continuing bitterness speaking. I think Arx is no better than the bulk of WoD games at teaching people how to play the game they've presented. They have a few passionate people who are eager to help, but I can say the same on the average game I've ever played. Aether stood out as a level of drawing people in that I have never seen since.)
It also helps if you have reasonable expectations. Martian Dreams only had about a dozen players, but we were a tight knit group who had fun for many months in a world I had lots of fun building. Some might consider that a failure or at best an open sandbox, but it was a success by my expectations.
if (( enjoyed( players ) && enjoyed( creators ) == TRUE ) then success = TRUE
Even the more laid back Soapbox community is pretty nit-picky about what to consider a success.
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RE: Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?
@faraday said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
@surreality But... why listen to them? I mean, the idea that original theme games can't work is demonstrably false. Arx, Firan, Aether, Castle d'Image, Otherspace... some of the most famous and arguably "successful" games in MU* history have had original themes.
These are also games based on generalizations. Aether was: General fantasy from the age of greek mythology. Castle d'Image was: Dimension of doors. Popular games not mentioned have similar generalist approaches, and I'll start with Shangril-La, because why not. (Yes, it has a detailed setting. Had, at least.)
The most famous Mu*s have no solid setting at all. FurryMuck, for instance. Almost any time I find an analysis of the hobby, this game is mentioned. I would describe FurryMuck as a "social", tho, in the way that Shang became, or HellMoo, or Islandia, all IRC channels with far more trappings. And I've had some decent role play on IRC.
Of the games you mentioned, though, you must know more of the setting than I mentioned. I loved (and still love) Aether's character test: Five very simple questions that proved you at least know what kind of game you're asking to play. Aether had a wiki before MediaWiki. Their news files were short and organized. Their newbie help channel actually helped newbies; you would usually walk away knowing how to find an answer next time.
If I had a nickel every time the answer to my question anywhere since Aether was "check the wiki"...
Or worse...
Anyhow, I had this answer in my head before hitting @Sparks' answer, and I also realize that it's quite different and almost opposite. We do both agree that for games based on an existing property a lot is taken for granted, but even original games have to be careful not to fall into that trap. I tried to draw out Aether as having the one thing that many games don't, and while I don't know about Otherspace I don't think any of the other games listed did that very well: Making it easy to get there.
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RE: Where do you draw the line in having your character take what would otherwise be an "IC" action for them?
@Catsmeow said in Where do you draw the line in having your character take what would otherwise be an "IC" action for them?:
Huh...
My phone has not received a text from @Coin
Does that mean I am not liked girl?!I am also not a girl @Coin likes.
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RE: Where do you draw the line in having your character take what would otherwise be an "IC" action for them?
@Coin said in Where do you draw the line in having your character take what would otherwise be an "IC" action for them?:
@Coin said in Where do you draw the line in having your character take what would otherwise be an "IC" action for them?:
I am a fully fleshed out real life person
In before someone disbelieves.
That means you, @Thenomain. You robot.
You keep bragging about the flesh you collect, so I believe it. The human suit you are making out of it almost masks your demonic nature.
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RE: RL Anger
@Admiral said in RL Anger:
Months after my family cut me off I get a text today from my mom saying she is 'praying for me'. I've spent this entire time miserable. Waiting for them to text me to apologize. To say something.
And what I get is a condescending, tone-deaf text. If I could punch life, I would.
Shit, dude, I’m sorry. I hope I never end up in this situation, and that I would be bold enough to, e.g., block my mother’s texts.
At the very least, I hope that you make or find a family that’s more loving.
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RE: RL Anger
I don’t think anyone needs to be on the spectrum to tangent a conversation like that. I can better imagine being upset because someone hijacked your conversation, and that is kind of a dick thing to do, especially when you’re trying to share and be helpful. It feels like a bit of a slap in the face.
c.f., this entire forum.
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RE: What locations do you want to RP in?
Yeah, but why the extra step? Hell, add the “what is this?” to the summary and I can kill +directory in one stroke.
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RE: RL things I love
@Auspice said in RL things I love:
@Ganymede said in RL things I love:
Maybe you should do that, then.
Already did. >.> I had a publication picked out for once I got feedback and made... well, the edits I expected I'd have to make?
... but apparently there are none, so...... off it's gone.
If people wanna read it, I can message the dropbox link. >.>
If it would help you more, tell us what publication it eventually ends up in so we can buy it.
I’d love to read it, tho. Been so long since I’ve read good Cyberpunk.
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RE: RL Anger
Maybe I’m on the Spectrum, but I absolutely would take someone’s talking about A Knight’s Tale to OMG about Chaucer. I’d be sorry about interrupting someone else being excited about their thing to be excited about my thing, but the idea is that we’re sharing being excited, yes?
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RE: POLL Gothic Fantasy System
@BobGoblin said in POLL Gothic Fantasy System:
I personally think Hx in the Mu setting is already dealt with largely in the way that a lot of games have people who try to connect their characters to each other prior.
But it raises and lowers at the end of each session. Not only that, but people vote for your experience-earning skill, again once per session. These are concerns that are solved at each table, and a Mu* is an entirely different kind of table.
In the DW game I have been a part of in the past, the story teller rotates every week or two depending on the mood and flavor; much like a MU.
Except that in PbtA games, even a bar scene is a scene run by the MC. That is, there is no downtime in this kind of game. This is a huge issue, and you either have to decide who's MCing at that moment, or find a way to run Dungeon World without an MC.
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RE: What locations do you want to RP in?
@Roz said in What locations do you want to RP in?:
@Thenomain said in What locations do you want to RP in?:
@Roz said in What locations do you want to RP in?:
Speaking just as one user among many
Here's my take on "one user among many": You can have brilliant ideas that would help the many. Sometimes you have to defend those views, but just because you're not "the many" doesn't make those ideas any less valid.
Oh, I was just being polite. I totally think my ideas are brilliant.
Maybe, but a lot of people give credence to the idea that popularity means quality. Many people, but especially staffers. (Especially staffers, holy shit.) Mind you, when staffers do it, they are usually using it as an excuse to dissuade conversation, and I hate that shit. What the hell does popularity matter for anything more than one factor in the question, "Is this project worth the time it will take." And even then, a good staffer will make that decision for how they understand the game, status quo as a single point among many.
Mind you, most staffers aren't polite about it, so thanks for that at least. Baby steps!
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RE: What locations do you want to RP in?
@Roz said in What locations do you want to RP in?:
Speaking just as one user among many
Here's my take on "one user among many": You can have brilliant ideas that would help the many. Sometimes you have to defend those views, but just because you're not "the many" doesn't make those ideas any less valid.
Maybe that should've gone into the peeve thread, but whatever. I'll work on this as soon as I figure out what logic is bad in my 'shift' code. Because f'ing Ferals. (It's Onyx Path being inconsistent again, really. Feral players are fine.)
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RE: What locations do you want to RP in?
@Roz said in What locations do you want to RP in?:
Having now experienced the +hangouts code on F&L, the thing I wish it more easily told me when I hit +hangouts/all is: a one or two word descriptor of what kind of place it is
I didn't have enough room for that. Well, I could kill the 'Details' column for it, and just put a checkmark. Though I do have a very small amount of room left over for it. Hm. Until I kill that giant 'Details' column. Hm.
Hm hm hmmm. Hmmmmmmm.
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RE: RL things I love
But can you put text in it? Because that would be badass, and I can guess the kinds of things you would make it say.
I would wuss out and make it say something more like, "Stop staring."
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RE: POLL Gothic Fantasy System
@BobGoblin said in POLL Gothic Fantasy System:
Apocalypse World (Dungeon World)
How would you deal with History (Hx) in a Mu* environment?
Mind you, Dungeon World is an amazing D&D Love Letter(*). I think it goes beyond this to the core of the genre to try and re-create it.
It's also one of very few games that are designed for player-to-player conflict. Sure, your character can be made to act in a way that you don't want, but this would happen even when succeeding on a check. "The bartender sneers at your threats but tells you the name of his Thieves' Guild contact. You two were little too loud, it seems, a little to obvious. There is movement in the room and three people stand, drawing ugly knives and one an even longer blade. You've been made." The game thrives on partial successes.
I'm okay with this.
It's also very GM-heavy. In a Mu* situation, who decides the above is the consequence of the action? In PbtA (Powered by the Apocalypse) games, there is nothing that's not a scene.
I'd love to see this work, but want to see how.
(*) Footnote: Most Old-School Revolution (OSR) games are mainly love letters to D&D, pining for the days of yore.
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RE: What locations do you want to RP in?
I don't want to tangent too far on this, but I do want to comment a bit. None of this is my saying that anyone is wrong; this is an exploratory post on the concepts given.
On the whole I agree with you, Lisse. I mean, look at my premise: Who, Where, Hangouts, and Directory are largely the same and share a huge chunk of the same code. They should be part of the same code object. (Who has seen my "Brand New Who Where <bnww>" in a master room? Sadly few.)
@Lisse24 said in What locations do you want to RP in?:
When I use a command like +hangouts or +where, I'm looking for the following things:
- Who's on right now?
I agree: One of the most used hardcode commands on any game does its job very well.
- Of the people who are on, are any of them available for RP?
- Are there any ongoing scenes I can join?
Almost nothing reliably tells you this. Few people use the 'WantRP' flag/setting/et al., many people on the grid are not available and many people in the OOC rooms are. I can think of only one case where you can see if someone is available for RP: They are in a public area.
I know that this isn't a 100% indicator, but it's more generically reliable than any other source. It doesn't require opting in to a secondary system.
There are a lot of people who try to be nice and page, "Hey, can I join this scene?" to people who are on the open grid, but it's not that difficult to get people to just go to the place and see what's going on.
It would be trivial to add this information to 'Where'. 'Hangouts' is a cross between Where and Directory, and so still does serve a purpose that isn't on your list: Tell me something about this place people are at. Also trivial to add to 'Where', but how much overloading can we do?
It turns out that we can do a lot, but I don't want to just keep throwing data at people. Sometime when you're logged in as a staff bit, type 'DOING' and note how it's different than 'WHO'. We don't care about doings anymore, but there are times where this differentiation is important regardless of its popularity.
I would love to see 'Where' be more like 'Hangouts', but as most people code it as an extended 'Who' instead, it creates a design overhead that people aren't used to considering.
(edit: My hangouts can list who's where, but if you look up that particular hangout it will also break down who's in which room. A hangout in that system can be a series of rooms, so it's smarter than 'Where' for keeping it simple. Setup is a hair more complex, but the payoff is substantial.)
- Of the people who are on and available for RP, do I want to RP with them?
- Are there any ongoing scenes I want to join?
Once you have the raw data, you can work this out. I don't think it's an item for differentiating 'Where' over 'Hangouts'.
It's good feedback, tho. I'd love more like this for next time I'm continuing my attempt to make all that info better. Because as everyone who has worked with me knows, I will keep designing working systems until I think it's done.
They may say so with swearing.