@Arkandel said in Do you believe in paranormal things?:
@wanderer said in Do you believe in paranormal things?:
It's not about what I believe in, it's about what I know to be true. I had to know for sure, so I got off my ass and found out.
I don't intend to insult or mock your beliefs,
Then don't. When you call it "beliefs" you're directly insulting me. You're calling my mental faculties deficient and my judgment worthless.
The difference - for some folks - can only be made up by being able to offer conclusive evidence for a belief to be transferable. If someone thinks something is true they must be able to conclusively demonstrate that somehow to others.
Transfer to me the conclusive evidence that man has walked on the Moon. Preferably you will be able to take me there so I can walk myself, or repeat the act where I can witness it.
Transfer to me the understanding of high-level mathematical proof. Make sure to explain all the silly squigglies.
Testimonies just aren't good enough. Not because they are false, intentionally or otherwise, but because our minds are simply not reliable witnesses - ask any cop. We think we see things all the time, we reconstruct what we perceive and memories are dynamically assembled together and not retrieved from a stable source.
Testimonies aren't good enough, so I'm not going to trust the astronauts who claim to have walked on the Moon. Pictures and videos don't count either, it could've all been doctored at that level, or simply shot in the studio.
That's why hard evidence is needed. It's not not because we're sceptics ready to cast down anything that doesn't fit our narrow definitions of the truth but because without a recreatable chain between observation ("...hey, that's weird...") to conclusion ("oh, so THAT's what happened") there must be steps in between someone else can follow from beginning to end and arrive at the same result.
Hard evidence? Ok, bring me a stone from the Moon and prove to me you didn't just pluck that off the side of the road. As with high level mathematics, some types of proof are not accessible to everyone, because they require certain prerequisites. Some of them are physical (getting access to the stone), some are mental (understanding mathematical proof) and some are psychological/evolutionary (developing the senses and abilities to observe supernatural phenomena). This is why I've said that I'm not interested in discussing the subject, and why convincing anyone is completely futile.
Hard evidence in physics isn't the same as hard evidence in history or psychology. Someone's state of mind and their subjective experience is valid proof within psychology.
I'd like to think I've an open mind. If someone can demonstrate precognition works by consistently beating, say, statistical expectations outside the margin of error in a double-blind experiment then I will believe the fuck out of it. But even though I can believe someone is telling the truth as they know it by stating they saw a guy predict outcomes in Vegas twenty times in a row it doesn't mean I am prepared to believe the same thing without that chain.
I also have an open mind when it comes to high-level mathematical proof but I haven't spent years studying and researching it. Should I conclude that it doesn't exist unless someone can prove it to me? Even though I barely remember arithmetic from school?
Talk to me about being open minded after you've spent over a decade researching this stuff in depth.
What's a good argument to loosen my requirements?
Having an actual experience that shakes you out of your worldview. Probably not even then, because you would be strongly motivated to rationalize it, regardless of the incongruities you'd have to ignore.