Jan 19, 2018, 12:20 AM
@thugheaven Which, you know, great if you are a veteran who has been playing the game for years, but was fucking awful for somebody playing for the first time.
Armageddon MUD
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@thugheaven Which, you know, great if you are a veteran who has been playing the game for years, but was fucking awful for somebody playing for the first time.
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@packrat I know, I'm really sorry you got treated that way. I understand how people reacting to an honest mistake can make you feel >< that big. I'm sorry that happened to you. I think people started to recognize that and some changes started happening.
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@thugheaven I think you'd get a lot more traction by not belittling peoples feelings by calling them 'fee fees'. Presentation is a factor.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
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@lithium said in Armageddon MUD:
@thugheaven I think you'd get a lot more traction by not belittling peoples feelings by calling them 'fee fees'. Presentation is a factor.
Yeah, I don't really understand why @ThugHeaven has simultaneously apologized for sounding condescending while still using the phrase in the same paragraph just today.
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@roz Alright, so then I apologize for using the word 'fee fees' too and I won't use it again.
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The RPI system definitely has merits, but I am still skeptical about the culture of this RPI game, even though the most dangerous staffer has been removed from their position.. I wonder about the lack of transparency that is conducive towards a healthy game environment.
I basically quit the gae after one day of play because staff refused to answer a basic question that my character would icly know- after I intoned that my character basically had been robbed of all his newbie money. Oh and then got urinated on, and beaten up. Even after doing everything correctly, hey I rolled with those punches but to then get stonewalled by staff so I couldn't get back on my feet..
wewt. TLDR: If you are looking for a blast for the past in MUSH staffing policies, give Arma (and many an rpi) a try. All the systems are intentionally opaque and staff secrecy, spying and cliquishness is not only allowed, but often approved!.
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The game has definitely had some rough staff. Being a twenty something year old game, it has had some “eras”. With that in mind depending on when you played staff may have reacted to you a certain way or certain styles of play may have been considered more acceptable. We’re now in the era where player complaints are taken seriously.
With that said there is an area of the game where you’re very likely to get robbed and worse. It’s called the labyrinth or ‘rinth. People that are playing the lower class, dregs of society type of character tend to make their home there. It’s not advisable to start there as a new player. You can also get robbed in the wastes! There are players that have raider characters, but in my opinion that adds to the dangerous air of the game and that your character is never safe.
Armageddon also has consent rules in place. So while you can still get robbed, you don’t have to consent to roleplay that consists of a character getting urinated on or anything along those lines.
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@twinprince oh man, I want so many more details. But in the Hogpit, pls? If you care to share stories.
Also it has been so long since I have received an unsolicited dick pic. Rip.
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I would love a game where there is no real ooc communication and you just log in and do your thing. Unfortunately, it sounds like this one is pretty full up of people who use that to be dicks. Ah, players. They ruin everything.
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@kanye-qwest said in Armageddon MUD:
I would love a game where there is no real ooc communication and you just log in and do your thing. Unfortunately, it sounds like this one is pretty full up of people who use that to be dicks. Ah, players. They ruin everything.
A friend and I pondered several iterations of a MUSH where players just wake up in a given environment and they know nothing and half of the opening play is just figuring out why/where; the wiki page would only have a page at most and its up to players to fill in what they discover for theme info and all that. With various benchmarks and such along the way to open up things and information.
But then we also figure its an age where most folks float around Mu* to Mu* with friends, so even if OOC communication was disabled somehow on game, they'd still skype/text/chat/share information in their circles regardless.
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@twinprince All of that stuff might’ve happened in the past and maybe some of that stuff might’ve happened to you. I’m just a player that enjoys the game. So, since this is the advertising forum it might be better for you to air out the game’s dirty laundry in the hog pit. I’m just here to field simple questions and give some of my experiences.
And yes, all of those things are from a different era. The staff you mentioned aren’t even a part of the game any more and haven’t been for some time. From looking at the forum you keep mentioning., I’ve noticed most of recent, recent to me means the last few months, there haven’t been any real criticism and just incoherent rants and trolling.
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@twinprince said in Armageddon MUD:
@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
We’re now in the era where player complaints are taken seriously.Which era? The one where headstaff pisses on players (literally, Zhaira), sends unsolicited dick pics to players (literally, Nyr), or the one where they go out of their way to play on their forums like they won't let you talk about your complaints to /keep from embarassing you/ rather than to preserve their false front of impartiality and equinamity when in fact they are literally animating npcs to malign and impugn and slander your character to their spouse, to try and sabotage their job, and to try and rob them, peppered liberally with the word 'whore' as an insult in a setting where the documentation itself says such should not be considered as much, to having them go so far as to tell the pcs that they were animating the npc guards so the dwarf could mug her without activating the crime code. (which is something from the past /year/ on the jcarter forums where, you know, supposedly no one has any problems to post about anymore.)
All the staffers that were mentioned, or implied in this post are gone. Though truth be said, I dont actually believe in the pissing/dick pics thing. Granted though Nyr, and the one responsible for that weird dwarf were each pieces of work. And were each peacefully ousted from staff authority. Admittedly, one other thing that describes 'both' of those staffers were an insane amount of work they did on the game. They introduced a shitton of content, changes, improvements, storylines. Not always wise improvements, not always best decisions, but the only one who doesnt make mistakes is the one that does nothing. They admittedly were dicks though and eventually their dickness overwhelmed the benefits to the game that stemmed from them being so prolific in terms of new content. And once that happened, they ... got gone.
Now we have an era of Rathustra and Calavera. Which are beyond awesome and the stories them and other staffers weave are absolutely beautiful. Or to be exact, absolutely horrifyingly stunning.
While I dont really enjoy the style ThugHaven writes in. "Fee Fees" and so on. I understand the general direction it is coming from (I hope). Basically, the theme of the game is dark. Dark, corrupt, and feral. There are races there that are universally despised. And often the players who play those races know and 'welcome' that attitude towards them. This is not the game where a band of many races band together to go out on adventures and live happily ever after. That's just the theme of DarkSun. To be all loving and all accepting without good reason is literally against theme. Which sometimes puts characters in a difficult position.
A templar. A being whom is supposed to be feared and dreaded by majority. Some new player does something ICly to affront him. Is the player of the Templar insulted? Of course not. Does the player of the Templar want to help the new player? Absolutely. Can he do it? Ehhhh ... not too often. If he is ICly too forgiving, he himself is against theme. So very often help comes, but it comes in ways of 'tough love'. The player wants to help the new player, but he does it in a way that reinforces the theme of the game. The Templar could ... enrage and enslave the new player. You'd think this is a bad thing, but in reality, the templar basically put the new player under his personal tutelage.
The whole 'fee fees' thing (If I understand correctly) comes from the fact that the darksun theme is 'not' a democracy. So sometimes, new players find it offensive to be so horrendously scoffed at by nobility/corrupted soldiers/members of antagonistic races, because every being has the right to be respected. They are offended because the civilized expectations of their players are broken in a game that is 'not' civilized. They are offended because their rights are violated, in a game where nobody has any rights and any commoner even implying such a thing will be looked at weird and probably soon reported to the Templarate as a dissenter.
I read someone mentioning how someone got beaten, mugged, and pissed on. That's horrible, but ... it's within theme of certain locations. Not everywhere obviously. It's not a game of griefers running around doing shit. But if you're in the depths of the desert and you encountered cannibalistic tribal raiders. Or if you're in the depths of the slums called Labyrinth, wearing nice shiny things, and encountered a gang of drugged out, desperate, angry, and hungry elves whose turf you've stumbled through. Well ... honestly. Anything you describe (beating and pissing included) is better then, "Suchandsuch hooded figure walks in from east. Suchandsuch figure kills you instantly." Yes, their treatment of you was unpleasant, but ... there probably was a reason for it. And before anything too gory and graphic was to be performed, they were supposed to ask for consent. And if you denied it, they would've faded to black and loosely described what happened.
Having said that. There was once an era in the game, when things just went beyond logical. The whole "find out IC" era, the whatever other power tripping shit that happened. But it's a 20+ years game. 15 years ago, the players who played it were 12-15 years themselves. Things happen, but it no longer describes the majority of the game. The game itself is full of stories, full of complicated destinies and plots. Full of totally awesome scenes and relationships. All of them permeated by theme of "Murder, Corruption, Betrayal".
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Consented to being beaten up. Not the urination which happened the instance I was 'awoken' and not given a.. hey you into piss play too btw? Which again.. the robbery happened in the middle of town, by a noble, so.. yak now.
As for the fact that there are currently two new staffers there a that are nice.. thats great. The problem remains- Armageddon has historically and consistently had a transparency problem- and as new staffers are hired- the next Nyx will no doubt ingratiate himself. Thre have been eras of good staffing on Arma before, the game is over a decade old after all, but becuase the games staff culture is opaque, players won't know when they are transitioning to the next round of tyranny until it literally is sitting on top of them, and they can't get their petitions approved etc.
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@alexrocker Anyone who goes to Dark Sun should know the theme is brutal.
That doesn't mean people should be OOC dicks.
Which is reinforced by just the /manner/ in which things were addressed here, for example: fee fees.
That is insulting, it's reducing someone's feelings to the level of baby talk, which is nonsense. Which indicates that the person writing it? Doesn't actually care what others think or feel about the subject and shows a complete lack of respect.
I love Dark Sun, it is by far my favorite setting, but just because someone doesn't know something OOCly, something they would most definitely know ICly does not mean they should be abused etc.
It's not inclusive.
It promotes a culture of abuse and ostracism on an OOC level.
It keeps the game from growing as quick as it could. There are a number of awesome RP'ers who just literally do not have the time or inclination to deal with OOC abuse like that.
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@alexrocker said in Armageddon MUD:
The whole 'fee fees' thing (If I understand correctly) comes from the fact that the darksun theme is 'not' a democracy. So sometimes, new players find it offensive to be so horrendously scoffed at by nobility/corrupted soldiers/members of antagonistic races, because every being has the right to be respected. They are offended because the civilized expectations of their players are broken in a game that is 'not' civilized. They are offended because their rights are violated, in a game where nobody has any rights and any commoner even implying such a thing will be looked at weird and probably soon reported to the Templarate as a dissenter.
That hasn't been the core of the objection people have expressed on this thread to the use of the phrase. The issue isn't that players on this thread are offended at the idea of their characters being abused -- plenty of us have played on some dark, violent games. But players don't like to reap big negative ICC for things they didn't know OOC but their characters should have known IC. Like, oh there's a standard mode of address for this type of character? It's known by everyone so my PC should have definitely known it, but I hadn't found it OOCly, so now they're getting beaten up or murdered. General concepts of ICC=ICA are prevalent on MUSH and MUX-based games, but players don't like OOC Ignorance=IC Consequences. Which is very different from "I don't like dark, violent games."
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@alexrocker So if you don't piss on people you are breaking the theme?
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Guys (Arm people), just for the record, I would really not waste your time defending Arm here or w/e is going on.
The market here who likes RPIs probably already knows wtf Arm is, the market who doesn't isn't going to make the switch from MUSHes to RPIs.
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That generally doesnt really happen. It used to. Years. YEARS ago. But these days, the players are good in displaying theme in a way that is not too punishing to new players.
I'd say the last example of this that I remember is this situation.
A noble is sitting in a tavern and some other PC walks in. That Noble is looking for something, some kind of service, or whatever. He addresses the PC that walked in and the PC responds in a way that clearly is not the way a commoner would respond to a noble addressing her. It was also done in a way that was pretty obvious that the character was ran by a new player. The reaction to this went somewhere like this.
The noble blinks in surprise and rueful amusement and chuckles it off with a wave of his hand. The newbie PC leaves.
The Noble scans the tavern and picks out a PC elf (the lowest on the society pole) in the tavern. A PC elf who is by emotes and so on, is clearly a non-newbie player.
A noble guard walks to the elf and tells her to pick a number.
Elf picks 10.
A noble guard indicates that he's going to punch the elf now, ten times and begins ... punching her, counting each punch out.
The elf rolls with it, because ... well. That's basically part of playing a city elf.
At fifth punch, the guard stops and tells the elf that if she wants to, she can 'delegate' the other five punches, to that upstart mouthy girl that walked out recently, or can remain and enjoy the rest of the 10 licks.
The elf agrees and runs off.
Half an hour later. The noble has already forgotten the event (seemingly). The newbie PC walks back into the tavern, hurries to the Noble, bows, and apologizes. The noble gracefully accepts the apology.Obviously the elf found the newbie PC and explained the situation. Everyone got a little story of thematic oppression.
Is this really so bad?
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@tempest said in Armageddon MUD:
Guys (Arm people), just for the record, I would really not waste your time defending Arm here or w/e is going on.
The market here who likes RPIs probably already knows wtf Arm is, the market who doesn't isn't going to make the switch from MUSHes to RPIs.
Valid point.