I've read/heard interviews with anonymous farmers that say that they're notified months in advance when inspectors are coming to certify their farms as "organic". They keep things cheap and dirty, then clean up ahead of time to pass certification.
There's a chance that the higher cost you're paying for organic products (to avoid stuff like heavy antibiotic use, etc) are really no different than SLAVEWAY SELECTS CHOICE USDA BEEF in the white packaging.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man
@Ghost Yeah, I'm pretty sure the only consistent thing about organic foods is that they have carbon atoms somewhere in them. Every company seems to have a different definition of what organic is, and it doesn't seem to be regulated in North America like it is in Europe.
I remembered this thread and wanted to share this video on it, for people labouring under the misconception that veganism is privileged:
£15 for four days' worth of nutritious food: breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert.
Also for those unfamiliar with Veganuary, there's a lot of support available right now if anyone wants to try it as a New Years' Resolution.
The privilege of the vegan position is that it generally consists of white people of a very specific subsect of society seeking to divorce lower class groups from culturally meaningful foods while ignoring issues like food deserts.
Wow. I guess I'm gonna be the odd man out. I eat a 90% Carnivore Diet. I was raised on a working farm, we supplied all our own food, well to be truthful like 98% of it. If I don't have meat, I don't really feel like I have eaten. But I'm a respectable carnivore. When I went to a Meat-Lite friend's house for dinner, they served Boca Burgers. I was pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't call it 'meat' or a 'meat replacement' but they have been added to my food rotation as something for a change of pace. They're great with some thick peppered bacon on em.
My daughter went through her No Meat phase, and I think she's still in it. So I learned to cook tofu and all that stuff for her. I don't ever force anyone to eat what they aren't comfortable with, I respect their choice, as long as they respect mine. Unless your my kid, then when you don't eat what you asked for... You will eat it or you will sit at the table until you do. It's probably a LOT better hot than cold. #dadfact
I've read the costs of going Vegan in the US to be somewhere around $17/day to $200/month per person.
The problem with this in the US is that you can get 9 burritos for $9 at Del Taco. The "dollar menu" at McDonalds(or any fast food place) is simply more economical for families with lower wage constraints.
As politely as possible, it is not a misconception that it is privileged. That video in no way changes the reality of inner city living, or even, say, the assumption that people can stream YouTube videos. It requires special attention to diet that requires an education about nutrients that the body needs to avoid getting sick from malnutrition and all.of that shit. There is way way way way way way way more to it than 'you can buy enough not meat to eat for a week for cheap SOMEWHERE'. Irresponsible.
I run a small catering business at weekends and I've seen an increase in people adopting the vegan lifestyle over the last few years. What I've also had, though, are people apologising for being vegan or apologising for being coeliac, as though it's something to be ashamed of, which I think is nuts.
There is a very vocal anti-vegan subset of people who really do go out of their way to be dicks to people - those who are vegan, vegetarian, anti-palm oil for ethical reasons, those who don't eat meat or dairy or gluten for digestive or allergy reasons being told HAHAHA eat bacon lol or 'you're just being fashionable'!
Personally I'm a meat eater, but it's a considered choice - again, I like to eat local as part of my bit to step up against climate change, and being in the UK that means in certain months I'm going to eat meat, and in certain months I'm going to be more vegetarian. But I'm not about to call anyone out for choosing (or being obliged to) eat certain things - it's relatively easy for me to get a wonky veg box every week (delivered, to the house that I own - yes, I am privileged and I know it), and to visit my local butcher. If you don't have that privilege and you need to grab a 99p McDonalds burger because you don't have the time, energy or money to cook, I'm not going to judge you. Being able to choose your diet IS a privilege, whether that's meat, vegetables, fast food or an indian from the local takeaway. Simply having a workable kitchen isn't something everyone has. If you need to eat cold beans from a tin, power to you, and I'm sorry that it's come to it.
Nobody should ever be ashamed for what they eat.
Unless it's a pot noodle. Those things can get in the fucking sea.
@Rinel said in What do you eat?:
The privilege of the vegan position is that it generally consists of white people of a very specific subsect of society seeking to divorce lower class groups from culturally meaningful foods while ignoring issues like food deserts.
Food deserts are a valid point but associating veganism with white people isn't.
Buddhists, hindus, jains and rastafarians have for generations embraced veganism & vegetarianism as part of their culture either as an ethical standpoint or by necessity. In most parts of the world, and throughout most of history, meat was and still is a luxury; in terms of pure logistics it always has been and still is much more expensive to manufacture than vegetarian cuisine, and the only reason it's cheaper to buy in the West is because OECD countries subsidies animal agriculture to the tune of over $52bn a year. (That's how much it was in 2012; I couldn't find more recent stats.) That comes out of your taxes, by the way, and contributes to food & economic inequality in the countries bearing the brunt of manufacture for us, such as Brazil, where indigenous communities are being displaced in order to clear room for cattle ranches.
This is a cookbook I own; I bought it in New Orleans where I also ate at an extremely cheap, local-favourite vegan diner called Sweet Soulfood in the Tremé neighbourhood. I recommend using the "look inside" feature to see what the author has to say about embracing veganism as a reclamation of his African heritage from the malnutritious effects white colonialism has had on his communities, and the disproportionate impact Western cuisine has on black people in America, who have higher incidences of chronic disease such as diabetes and various heart conditions.
Another book worth reading is The China Study, which documents how the westernisation of traditional Chinese cuisine has led to higher rates of cancer, diabetes and other chronic diseases which were previously unheard of in rural communities until American exports and advertising started gaining traction.
Here's another first person account of a black woman who pursued vegan cuisine in order to benefit her local community: https://youtu.be/X3B905qQ-mE
I've been vegan for seven years. I'm grateful for the recent changes in accessibility with companies like Beyond and Impossible, but before vegan cheese and imitation meat burgers became a thing, most of the vegan options and recipes I used to educate and feed myself came from Chinese, Indonesian, Ethiopian, Thai, Vietnamese, Indian, Mexican, Caribbean chefs, communities, restaurants and influencers. Tofu has been a cheap convenience in the East long before white people discovered it; rice & beans were a Latin/South/Native American staple similarly; and India has the largest vegetarian population in the world. I'm lucky enough to live nextdoor to a korean supermarket where I buy all my rice, beans, tofu, enoki mushrooms and bok choy in bulk.
Calling this a white thing is whitewashing.
And that's just on the cultural front; there is much, much more to dissect on a geopolitical level, when you consider that the devastating effects of climate change — driven in no small part by animal agriculture — will impact most severely the poorest and most underprivileged populations of the world, especially those living near the equator or in forests being burned for cattle — or that the UN has long since estimated that veganism alone has the potential to end world hunger. (Source #2: As have other scientific publications.) Meat is a wildly inefficient means of feeding our growing global population.
There are a lot of people who are more concerned with not starving to death right now, who need to feed their families right now, that do not have the PRIVILEGE to be concerned with how food is sourced.
Eating a lot of fancy vegetable dishes is a privilege, sure, but the 'cost' argument is not the correct one. Dry bulk beans and rice will feed a family cheaper than even McDonald's dollar menu, absolutely.
The argument that families where both parents are working multiple jobs and do not have time to prepare food would be closer to an actual root cause, I think, but even then it's not the foods that are the issue.
Eating dry bulk beans and rice alone will kill you if you do it too long.
@Sunny said in What do you eat?:
Eating dry bulk beans and rice alone will kill you if you do it too long.
Especially if you don't cook them. Just sayin'
@Sunny and dollar menus won't? eating just meat won't? I think I've lost the thread of your point, here.
I wish I was a vegetarian but that's only because I know how the animals whose meat I eat are treated before they are slaughtered.
I am not ready to be one. That's on me, I consider it a flaw of mine.
However I'll happily tell whoever tries to push me to change how I eat (by guilt-tripping me into it or otherwise) just how they can best fuck off.
The thread of my point is:
Food deserts.
Time.
Inability to cook, having no stove.
No education, to understand how to get the appropriate nutrients the body needs.
Getting your kids to eat it
..
Yes. Somewhere that you can buy enough food for cheap exists. That is in no way enough of a factor to claim that being capable of eating vegan in a healthy fashion is not privileged.
@Sunny said in What do you eat?:
There are a lot of people who are more concerned with not starving to death right now, who need to feed their families right now, that do not have the PRIVILEGE to be concerned with how food is sourced.
If you're eating what you need to in order to survive and don't have the privilege of choice, then you have my sympathy and 0 room for shame.
That includes homeless people accepting handouts, people recovering from eating disorders for whom additional restrictions/concerns can be dangerous, single/busy/working parents who rely on convenience foods in order to feed large families, people living in food deserts and remote locations, etc.
But if you have the time and ability to educate yourself, batch cooking vegan meals can be incredibly cost effective. Also: rice and beans are way, way more nutritious than I don't know ... McDonalds happy meals. And it's what a lot of people the world over (Latin/South/Native America, China & Southeast Asia) live on as a staple, so you know, where checking your privilege is concerned ... the idea that this is bad is a Western thing.
I'm not out to judge anyone, I just like helping people who are interested in it become better informed on veganism. So if you fall into that category and the only thing holding you back from going vegan is concerns that it'll be expensive, you're misinformed, and I'm offering resources to help with that. There is 0 need for this to become an emotive topic.
With respect, food is going to be an "emotive" topic almost always, for a wide variety of reasons.
@mietze said in What do you eat?:
With respect, food is going to be an "emotive" topic almost always, for a wide variety of reasons.
100% accurate.
But not always relevant to external factors.
Also, the idea that people will choose to live on subsistence/most inexpensive staples if they don't have to is not really a correct one. That has been proven time and again. While I appreciate veganism, lean towards plant based diets myself quite happily, I really wish that line of preaching would go away because jfc that edges really close to a "noble savage" type of thing that is just gross. And unnecessary.
I've read/heard interviews with anonymous farmers that say that they're notified months in advance when inspectors are coming to certify their farms as "organic". They keep things cheap and dirty, then clean up ahead of time to pass certification.
There's a chance that the higher cost you're paying for organic products (to avoid stuff like heavy antibiotic use, etc) are really no different than SLAVEWAY SELECTS CHOICE USDA BEEF in the white packaging.
