Ghoulage on Kingsmouth

[mietze]

And again. "Political" pcs on that game can be killed and acted against for any reason. That's why I'm curious as to what sort of pc was killed without notice. Was it a political one who just vanished with no word to anyone? Was there a arrangement made that they wouldn't be back or that staff felt was made? (Invited to not come back? Someone said in a pique--because I bet most people have seen this happen too--well, I quit! But then doesn't turn in the request and just rolled over? I mean I saw that happen a lot on tr with the requisite return after a few months and then pissiness that people had in fact believed their threats and moved on)

I have seen one death that could be termed as non-consensual post player leaving in my time there. It is the pc of a banned player. And even then it wasn't a lame death, it happened in the course of that pc taking on one of the arch villains currently. All the other pc "deaths" have happened by retirement, request, or IC action. Though this is just in the last 6 months and I understand that there was some major drama a while before that.

And as Gany has pointed out; in any case freezing or death or silly story is totally avoidable by giving notice and/or taking charge of your own story before you go.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Misadventure
I never said all no where my first post on this topic was the most one.
You were the one who stated the absolute about not playing under bad staff. I just questioned then where were the option to play?
As far as position of bad staff to good staff I would say it is about the same 40 bad to 60 good roughly that all humanity has in my general observance.
though I would consider any Storyteller staff or not who thinks killing a non played character adds anything to the story, at best it is the same tactic far too many hack writers use to show how the plot is serious by raising a body count. So yes if a idled out PC is killed it is do to OOC malice or the misguided idea that a meaningless body count makes a plot important

[Misadventure]

I was talking with @Tempest.

Example: Rebel Agent 57 is a prisoner on the Death Star. It is destroyed by The Rebels. There is no player to track anything, so ... it's best to say that unlike everyone else aboard, Rebel Agent 57 survived the explosion. No one will be playing the character, because abandoned characters are sacrosanct. They sit there in space, not dying.

Example: Mr. Dalton inherits his family ice cream store. The player retires. When someone asks if there is an ice cream store on grid later ... what do you do? I'd say yep, it's there, run by Mr Dalton still. If you go in and rob the place, and freak out and kill him, he dies.

In both cases, it is argued that by doing anything, I am acting out of vengeance. Yeah, like I care about a vanished player that much.

[ThatGuyThere]

You may have been talking tempest but according to the forum you were actually replying to me.
In both of your examples Rebel Agent 57 and Mr Dalton's deaths have no point either, they could mean the same being nameless NPC A and Unnamed employee B. My argument is less that abandoned PC is sacrosanct, and more that killing them at best is utterly pointless hack writing in the attempt to make a plot important.
And yes you might not has malice but if you honestly believe is not not in most instances, well I can sell you a nice bridge in one of the outer Burroughs of New York on an easy installment plan.

[Misadventure]

You cannot sell me a bridge. It has no bearing on what I believe.

Likewise, you cannot claim conversations that were shared with more than just you.

I am certain you should stay away from any place that has such a policy.

You have said nothing to sway my opinion, and I have no interest in swaying yours.

[ThatGuyThere]

No I would play on such a place because honestly I have no care for what happens to characters after I decide to leave them.
It is very possible to be against something that does not personally effect ones self.

[Wizz]

@Misadventure said:

Likewise, you cannot claim conversations that were shared with more than just you.

Just to be fair and point out, one page back you did tag ThatGuyThere and not Tempest. It's kind of an unspoken behavior lately that we tag, if not directly quote.

[Misadventure]

@ThatOneDude

You and your fairness.

Apologies to @ThatOneDude for abusing their tag for a bad joke/mea culpa.

[ThatOneDude]

@Misadventure said:

@ThatOneDude

You and your fairness.

Apologies to @ThatOneDude for abusing their tag for a bad joke/mea culpa.

I need my royalties for the usage of my likeness and name >.>

[Biggles]

I am not sure why Kingsmouth was singled out for being supposedly 'low' for their way of handling inactive players. I've staffed several mushes now that simply kill off any character that idles out. They're given a one week warning, then bam, gone. The best a player could do was set a vacation tag on themselves and it would save them from the auto destroyer.

Some stories and some games are so tight knit and moving, that having someone coming in and then leaving and then coming in, disrupts play for everyone involved. If your character holds responsibility for a territory, but isn't around for several weeks, well that territory can sit idle, or can be holding up the dozen or so requests to attack/terrorize/subvert/patrol/investigate/etc. As such, you're being a prick for not telling anyone you were idle, you're wasting everyone's time and character death is a perfectly valid reason for you to be gone. You don't get to come back with that sort of selfish behavior.

Now if you're just a Civilian character minding their own business, not attached to anything, well... I can't say that I've seen one of them killed off yet. Feel free to enlighten me if one has been, but as far as I can recall not one has been, that hadn't requested it, which I'm going to say is just blatant fear-mongering on your part at this time.

Yes this game is very involved, yes it has a lot of people working for and against each other. You don't have to get involved in that at all, but if you choose to, realize that it is what it is, and it may not be for you, so that is fine. It is why we don't just have one mush/mud/MMORPG. Different strokes for different folks.

[Derp]

@Biggles

Just because it's been done in other places doesn't make it any less of a dick move. The community has a certain set of expectations at this point regarding OOC behavior and civility on the part of both players and staffers, and the discussions on these forums clearly show that. Removing a character from territory through non-final measures is fine. Staff killing a character simply because it seems expedient is clearly not.

[Coin]

Honestly, the only thing I would contest is that the policy needs to be more clearly stated so as to serve as a concrete warning.

If you idle out and you are [class of character subject to this rule], then staff holds the right to kill the character in whatever way they see fit to further or disinhibit the story of the game.

It isn't that fucking hard, and if you say it up front, it saves you from people bitching about it later.

[Biggles]

@Derp said:

@Biggles
Removing a character from territory through non-final measures is fine. Staff killing a character simply because it seems expedient is clearly not.

I disagree.

I suppose that's the easiest way to say it. Regardless of how your character is removed from the game, they're removed, in some cases, killing is the best option. I'm not sure when people started to lose all respect for other players. You in your own words said people have a set of expectations, one of mine is that people are going to be up front with their absences. That way you know /not/ to count on them if they're going to disappear in the middle of a plot. What you seem to be missing completely is that this is entirely about OOC respect for your other players and staffers. If you cannot give anyone a head's up as to being gone for a period, why on earth should you expect some sort of, 'Oh we'll put the mush on hold till you get back and then we'll pick up where you left off.'

The problem is that you are assuming Kingsmouth is another TR, or another HM, where people can exist in a vacuum apart from everyone else. That doesn't happen on this mush, or other mushes like it. Everyone gets to know everyone and everyone is involved with things, unless they're a Civilian player, in which case they're in the background, most likely getting their feet wet, but truly missing out on all that the game has to offer.

I respect Coin's post and admit he makes a valid point. It should be more clearly stated that absent characters can be killed off. That said, I've still yet to hear of a non-Political player who has been killed off without their consent/recommendation. I have heard of people skirting the lines between Political and at the time 'Support' and Civilian, but so far I've only seen good responses from the rest of the crew, be it staff/players in response to ensuring said rule-benders smarten up.

The game is 'smallish' I think 150ish users, with an average activity of 50ish people on at most times barring these early times right now. So yes, characters get involved quickly and encouraged to join plots, that's one thing I have to say for it, there's plots... lots and lots of plots. First day on grid, I was introduced to three completely separate, long running plots, and a host of smaller ones that involved all sorts of crafty responses to get them completed. The system is designed to encourage people to be active and to participate. Which I think it does well, as for the issue at hand, I will speak with staff to get them to clear up that caveat, if no one else here has done so already.

[Usekh]

It depends how long you give people. Weird accidents do happen. Medical things can put people out of action for a time. Either directly or too a loved one. And when that happens last priority is letting a MU* know you are going to be away. Even if you are capable of it.

So there really needs to be some mechanism for chars to return, or a long grace period.

[Coin]

Or just a clear policy that doesn't care if you can or can't help it. If I app on a game knowing that if I get hit by a car and am comatose for two weeks, I will probably come back to a dead character, then if that happens, I will know. It would be awesome if they made an exception and worked it out for me. But forewarned is forearmed.

I don't know if they have changed the policy, but if they haven't, they should. Just to make it clearer.

[Wizz]

@Coin said:

It isn't that fucking hard, and if you say it up front, it saves you from people bitching saves you from looking like a malicious dick about it later.

FIx't.

If I app on a game knowing that if I get hit by a car and am comatose for two weeks, I will probably come back to a dead character, then if that happens, I will know. It would be awesome if they made an exception and worked it out for me. But forewarned is forearmed.

Again, most reasonable people will decide whether or not a policy of death is something they're OK with and make sure they take the appropriate actions to prevent it if, as @Coin says, they're forewarned and forearmed. You'll never stop people from bitching about such a policy, but at least there's something you can point to so the rest of us can justifiably go, "Ahh, OK, welp. Should've posted a vacation notice then" and not just sound bitter and unsympathetic, as seems to be the case right now.

[Coin]

@Wizz Fair enough.

[Apollonius]

I feel like this is best resolved by ambiguity.

He's not dead. He's lost at sea with a high probability of being shark bait.

If someone insists on trying to find them: And he was never seen or heard from again.

If he owned a restaurant or something: Next of kin or whatever took control of the assets after he disappeared. Retroactively create a will with someone who is connected and wants to lay claim. Have people fight over it if there is a PC-PC dispute.

I'm not involved with Kingsmouth at all but even in cases where Staff lets me knock out an inactive PC for a political position elsemu, I like to try and frame it so that if he or she really really wants to come back, they can.

But it sounds like, as @Coin mentioned, they just need a better disclaimer. After all, a vague disclaimer is nobody's friend.

[Misadventure]

Death isn't the only option for writing a temporary or long term absence. It never has been.

Another approach, which lets the player understand just how much difficulty their absence created, is allow them to explain why no one could reach them, not with magic or contacts or anything. Makes them fit it into the RP continuity.

I'd rather go with a period before it is accepted that a character is actually not doing their daily routine, and another length before they are written out in some fashion.

[tragedyjones]

Not going through and rereading everything, but doesn't vampire have a built in plot device for indeterminate amount of unavailability called a fucking stake?