Consent in Gaming
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@DariRyu I don't even think that need be done on a highly structured type of game (military). An IC message/memo can just be written to the appropriate other commanders or people/staff regarding the incident and the consequences, leave it at that. "Blah blah blah, as of <date> <PC> is confined to station/will no longer be available for <x> type of missions/must have written clearance from <NPC/PC> before being allowed on any missions, ect."
That will still not prevent some people from blowing their stack, but they were going to do it anyway one way or another if they truly can't accept any consequences whatsoever, so either staff will need to remove them if they throw a shitfit, or if you know staff won't do that, then you have to just deal with it.
Personally I think the player of the PC who is being forced into imposing consequences should have this option no matter what, since it's not very fun to have to do these types of scenes for the disciplinarian end either, usually, and they're already going to be facing negative IC and OOC consequences of having to do so anyway sometimes.
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@Thenomain Sure. It's fine to me. Because lately I've reached a point in my RL where I am not going to play with someone who is obnoxious. So you can do whatever thing you want that lets you chase your joy in your IC hobby and I can chase mine. Over here. Away from the things that I do not enjoy.
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@Thenomain said in Consent in Gaming:
What, people sometimes play games to portray special snowflakes? Gasp! It's like people see cool things in media and want to enact those!
Yeah, the thing is, tho...
If Gregory House always makes everything all about him, that's not a problem. House is already about House. It's right in the name.
MU*s are collaborative fiction works where the authors are also kinda actors and also we're the audience. Structures have to be different.
And while everyone should want to be cool... there's that joke about how an RP group playing Firefly would be five Rivers and maybe a Jayne. Follow your RP bliss, but like, if everyone's the quirky outsider nobody is...
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Or be and embrace being the quirky outsider. Just understand that unlike a novel or a TV show featuring the quirky outsider who gets away with it/overcomes everything, your PC isn't the star to other people's supporting cast. Your moment that you take to shine in one scene might lead to another person needing to use their own skills/weight/concept as well.
I find that the vast majority of time there's a consistent troublemaker who erodes the IC and OOC goodwill around them with their IC and OOC behavior, it is largely because either they don't grasp that, or they really don't care--and normally the former rather than the latter, since by the time I've ended up talking to them usually it's because they are sad/upset that they have burned so many other bridges to get to that point.
Sometimes for whatever reason there are some players who can get away with it on a game or for a time, and when the situation changes they are often hurt and upset and can't understand why other people don't just want to roll with it and enjoy their story. Unfortunately, there sometimes just isn't a lot of patience to sit down with someone and work through that and help them sort it out, for a lot of understandable reasons.
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Asked and answered, y'r honor.
I'm making fun of this entire hobby for missing out on some wildly key concepts and at once encourage and complain about them.
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That's what consent is all about.
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@insomniac7809 said in Consent in Gaming:
@Thenomain said in Consent in Gaming:
What, people sometimes play games to portray special snowflakes? Gasp! It's like people see cool things in media and want to enact those!
Yeah, the thing is, tho...
If Gregory House always makes everything all about him, that's not a problem. House is already about House. It's right in the name.
MU*s are collaborative fiction works where the authors are also kinda actors and also we're the audience. Structures have to be different.
And while everyone should want to be cool... there's that joke about how an RP group playing Firefly would be five Rivers and maybe a Jayne. Follow your RP bliss, but like, if everyone's the quirky outsider nobody is...
Wash. 100%. But I love me a good crack pilot.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@mietze said in Consent in Gaming:
I find that the vast majority of time there's a consistent troublemaker who erodes the IC and OOC goodwill around them with their IC and OOC behavior, it is largely because either they don't grasp that, or they really don't care--and normally the former rather than the latter, since by the time I've ended up talking to them usually it's because they are sad/upset that they have burned so many other bridges to get to that point.
Sometimes for whatever reason there are some players who can get away with it on a game or for a time, and when the situation changes they are often hurt and upset and can't understand why other people don't just want to roll with it and enjoy their story. Unfortunately, there sometimes just isn't a lot of patience to sit down with someone and work through that and help them sort it out, for a lot of understandable reasons.
This occurs often with people who believe that the game they are playing is "their story". When in fact, it is everyone's story. Unless you're going to run multiple instances of a MU, like different dimensions, stories will run into each other. Everyone can't be the lead all the time.
It also occurs on games where there are few consequences for bad behavior, both IC and OOC.
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Almost none of the stupid MUSH games you people are playing have actual code to bind a character and lock them in the room with someone particularly odious - so if something is making you uncomfortable IC - leave. If it's making you uncomfortable OOC - leave even faster. If what they're doing is abusive or game-breaking - screenshot it - then leave!
Consent in gaming is a very separate creature from consent in real life, and while I understand that a lot of times people get in their feelings and need others to slam the brakes on their enjoyment because of their niche issues, the idea of having to OOCly play therapist to people who could just leave or else I'm a bad, insensitive, impatient person is fucking insane.
Remember when roleplaying used to be roleplaying, and organic RP happened without being pre-screened and pre-scripted, and none of us died from keeping it IC?
I miss those days.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
@Pandora More code helps with it, imo. It removes the vagueness of what's okay to do and what's not, and makes things more organic where people feel it's okay to shut shit down.
some fucking idiot who people only like because he's good at taking credit for the work of everyone under him, just like every other fucking L&L headwiz.
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@Apos Agreed - more code is my answer to just about anything/everything. But if a game (most games) don't have a coded way to force you to remain in a scene, it's seems a bit far-fetched to make consent into some big thing when there are more obvious issues at play than consent, for example a lack of Block-A-Motherfucker
code. Blocking people is wonderful and I advise everyone to try it. -
@Pandora said in Consent in Gaming:
Remember when roleplaying used to be roleplaying, and organic RP happened without being pre-screened and pre-scripted, and none of us died from keeping it IC?
For every good thing you can say about those days, I can name at least one bad.
Because yes, I remember it.
It worked when people let it work, when people wanted it to work, when people worked together to make it work.
I don't know what changed that people decided that it couldn't work without rules and code and things that made it more like asking permission to get a cookie than "yar, I raid the cookies, I am the cookie king, muahahaha!" Though when I phrase it like that I can imagine a few reasons why someone would want to shut that down.
I do miss those days for rose-colored nostalgia, but realistically we were struggling with our era's own social and consent situations.
Now excuse me, but I have cookies to plunder.
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@Wretched by all accounts I've heard (which is only two) Jim Butcher's character on a MU was insufferable to RP with.
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@Auspice said in Consent in Gaming:
Wash. 100%. But I love me a good crack pilot.
I'm playing Inara or Zoey. Maybe Mal.
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These guys seem awfully enthused about giant robot maids sucking.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@Wretched said in Consent in Gaming:
So I'm reading this thread and I'm finding my perspective might differ when I Rp than others here. Even if its a bad situation, I'm still there, playing my character, who is the protagonist of my show, as I imagine other PC's are the protagonists of theirs, reacting to stimuli and responding, in character. What is even the point of playing if to avoid any conflict you cannot dominate? Sometimes you get yelled at, or face consequences. You are still there, RPing right? How does this reflect on yout he player? I love it when bad things happen to my PC's... thats the most fun part. Conflict, and playing that character within that conflict. Right?
FYI this is my personal ethic, as well.
The point of roleplaying is that it isn't me. The damage, the horror, the tears remain inside of the story and a problem of the character. Not me. I will manage just fine, because I'm just a puppeteer with strings on the ends of my fingers.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
@Ghost While I agree with both you and @Wretched in personal views on the meaning of RP, I disagree with the idea that absolutely everything that happens must happen on screen or it isn't as meaningful.
If I play a criminal, and you play a judge, and you want to run a trial and I really don't want to sit for hours posing "he sits quietly" over and over again... I don't think I should be compelled to. There are some parts of a story that can be glossed over. It's not that I don't want to play out consequences, it's that sometimes part of those consequences are so unutterably boring to sit through - even if we assume the trial, in my example, is played with the Hollywood dial turned to eleven. It's going to be fuckin' boring after a while.
ETA: Sure, this might appear selfish. But at the same time I'd argue that it's selfish of anyone else to compel another person to roleplay something they're uninterested in. It's one person, I'm almost certain you can find another person that will be excited by the idea of sitting through the minutiae of a criminal prosecution if that's what you really want to do.
He/Him
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