One of the best things the Morrowind community ever did for me was getting me to realize that "canon" is a spook.
@Rinel said in Good or New Movies Review:
One of the best things the Morrowind community ever did for me was getting me to realize that "canon" is a spook.
I'm a comic nerd, so I have a lot of reason to question the value of canon and continuity. They mostly seem to be excuses to hate the thing you love by asserting your intellectual superiority over the people who produce the thing you pretend to love.
General "you" there, for the record.
@GreenFlashlight said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Ghost said in Good or New Movies Review:
Which, yanno, sucks.
I don't fully get that. Like, if you enjoy the books, they're still on your shelf, right? If you like the comics, they're still in your longbox. George Lucas can't take them from you, or make you stop liking them, or make you think they didn't happen if you want to think they happened. The only thing anyone can do is not make movies about them, which they could still choose not to do even if the books and comics and whatever are canon; so how does it hurt anyone?
By "sucks" I mean this:
No, it doesn't remove their existence or anything. I didn't mean "sucks because my view on the Star Wars universe has become secular".
I meant more: Sucks that these writers, game makers, content creators, etc worked so hard to keep it going, made so many awesome things that people loved, all on the assumption that Mr. Star Wars was on board with it...and then in the end he comes out and says "Yeaaaaaaah I dont know any of those guys and didn't read any of that. They dont count."
Ouch. Right?
To be a Star Wars fan getting paid to write and design Star Wars stuff, to help flesh out the universe, and then in the end the ICONIC MOSES FIGURE OF STAR WARS says: "Didnt read it. Dont care. It doesn't count."
In a way, the true validation that you created something RAD is whether or not Disney keeps it. Like Thrawn or KOTOR.
I also think there are a lot of people who focus on the extreme minorities in these situations. I think most people fall into a moderate middle. I've never actually met someone who said "Director X ruined Star Wars. I've thrown all my Star Wars stuff away." I've spoken to people who have said, "I don't care for Director X's movies and I tend not to watch them" or something similar.
Also, let's be clear; Star Wars fans didn't drive anyone off of social media. A vocal minority raised a ruckus(including certain YouTube channels who thrive off of controversy and discontent). Again, I think most people fall into a moderate middle where they may have said "I don't get the character but that's not the actresses fault".
I think the novels are a great example of this on a larger scale. Some novels I've read and love. Others I have not(including the entire Young Jedi Knights series). The novels I did not care for did not impact my enjoyment of the other novels or my enjoyment of potential future novels by other authors. There are enough novels(and movies and comics) that the things I like and dislike just create a palette of things I watch or read. With the new trilogy, for instance, I don't care for TLJ but I'll probably watch TFA and ROS on a fairly regular basis.
@Ghost said in Good or New Movies Review:
I meant more: Sucks that these writers, game makers, content creators, etc worked so hard to keep it going, made so many awesome things that people loved, all on the assumption that Mr. Star Wars was on board with it...and then in the end he comes out and says "Yeaaaaaaah I dont know any of those guys and didn't read any of that. They dont count."
That makes more sense. Thanks for explaining. I still don't fully get it, though. I don't know any writers, so I'm pulling this from my ass, but I'd have thought the satisfaction would come from the fans (and the paycheck), not the acknowledgment of the guy who owns the land you're mining and who owns the rights to whatever you dig up.
@ZombieGenesis said in Good or New Movies Review:
I also think there are a lot of people who focus on the extreme minorities in these situations. I think most people fall into a moderate middle. I've never actually met someone who said "Director X ruined Star Wars. I've thrown all my Star Wars stuff away." I've spoken to people who have said, "I don't care for Director X's movies and I tend not to watch them" or something similar.
Also, let's be clear; Star Wars fans didn't drive anyone off of social media. A vocal minority raised a ruckus(including certain YouTube channels who thrive off of controversy and discontent). Again, I think most people fall into a moderate middle where they may have said "I don't get the character but that's not the actresses fault".
I think the novels are a great example of this on a larger scale. Some novels I've read and love. Others I have not(including the entire Young Jedi Knights series). The novels I did not care for did not impact my enjoyment of the other novels or my enjoyment of potential future novels by other authors. There are enough novels(and movies and comics) that the things I like and dislike just create a palette of things I watch or read. With the new trilogy, for instance, I don't care for TLJ but I'll probably watch TFA and ROS on a fairly regular basis.
Like Egg Shen. It's like a salad bar; you take what you want and leave the rest.
But it's also kind of interesting how it parallels how some people approach politics in that the minority are vocal when the actual majority is pretty quiet and content
Back before Disney bought Lucasfilm and began their plans to make All SW All the Time, I embarked on a journey to read/watch/play Star Wars in chronological order.
...............I didn't get all that far because it was such a trial. I refuse to believe anyone has gone through everything.
@Auspice said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Ghost Years ago I got to sit and talk with David Weber (author of the Honorverse novels) at length about writing. What it is to be an author. His experiences. etc.
but then he found out that- oh. Authors within SW were very very very very closely controlled by Lucasfilm. If he'd agreed, he'd have been given a very specific formula, every plot point, etc. It'd basically be ghostwriting in a sense. Other people would decide everything that happened and he'd just connect the dots.
I am surprised he didnt go for it considering his best books by far are the ones where the plot beats are stolen wholesale from CS Forester
@GreenFlashlight said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Ghost said in Good or New Movies Review:
I meant more: Sucks that these writers, game makers, content creators, etc worked so hard to keep it going, made so many awesome things that people loved, all on the assumption that Mr. Star Wars was on board with it...and then in the end he comes out and says "Yeaaaaaaah I dont know any of those guys and didn't read any of that. They dont count."
That makes more sense. Thanks for explaining. I still don't fully get it, though. I don't know any writers, so I'm pulling this from my ass, but I'd have thought the satisfaction would come from the fans (and the paycheck), not the acknowledgment of the guy who owns the land you're mining and who owns the rights to whatever you dig up.
I get that, too. But you'd want your work to COUNT, right? I'm sure there were more than a few that were like:
"I made my mark on the history of Star Wars. I am a Star Wars superfan and love George Lucas and all of this stuff. I was ECSTATIC when I got asked to write KOTOR. I designed Darth Revan and am so happy people love it! I hope to one day see some other writer flesh out the history of the Revanites and maybe he'll be in a movie and-"
Lucas: "-I dont know this guy and didnt read that stuff. It's not applicable and isn't my universe."
And then...
"All of this was my idea. Obi-wan is working with Aayla Secura and Quinlan Vos on Coruscant..."
I loved Rise of Skywalker. It was wonderful and fantastic, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Go see this movie if you love Star Wars!
Imagine if every one argues for Greek mythology but single canon, or closer to various inconsistencies, argued canon among Arthurian legend? I think George allowed EU and retconned and whatever else to open this door there isn't one SW, everyone was a different view of what is good or bad about it and ...
That's just fine.
@Ghost said in Good or New Movies Review:
@TheOnceler said in Good or New Movies Review:
People should go see Knives Out. It's Rian Johnson finally recovering from the stumble of making a critically acclaimed billion dollar movie.
Looper?
Brick?
Oh, wait, no, that only made a billion dollars in my imagination.
(Still wildly underappreciated, though.)
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
So I went and saw RoS for the second time and I thought I'd post my thoughts on it.
***=Spoilers***
Edited because apparently using the spoiler tag is hard...
@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker Pitch Meeting
Cool link! Still enjoyed the movie.
ROS is an advent calendar, except instead of waking up to try a new little chocolate treat each morning, your brain processes the events again and you realize new wholly unique problems with it.
@Lemon-Fox said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker Pitch Meeting
Cool link! Still enjoyed the movie.
Oh, it wasn't meant as criticism anyway. All of the Pitch Meeting videos make fun of the material and find plot holes, even for movies the guy who creates them loves. Watch the Endgame one, for example.
@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Lemon-Fox said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker Pitch Meeting
Cool link! Still enjoyed the movie.
Oh, it wasn't meant as criticism anyway. All of the Pitch Meeting videos make fun of the material and find plot holes, even for movies the guy who creates them loves. Watch the Endgame one, for example.
(Except Force Heal isn't a plot hole and he spent way too long on that in the video.)
Back before Disney bought Lucasfilm and began their plans to make All SW All the Time, I embarked on a journey to read/watch/play Star Wars in chronological order.
...............I didn't get all that far because it was such a trial. I refuse to believe anyone has gone through everything.
