Where the hell is everyone?

Arkandel

@Ghost
I only know of two people I flat out avoid, because of legit crazy/stalker tendencies, in the over-a-decade I've been at this RP thing.

I've only a couple reasons I don't avoid people (and I'm not prone to do so for many, it's too much work - which is probably a reason on its own right ).

We're likely to have common friends and I'd rather not miss out on having fun with folks I like because of ones I don't... it seems counter-productive.
Alts and internet anonymity being what they are I'd probably run into them again somewhere without realizing. Paranoia isn't conductive to having fun.

As long as they don't actively make an effort to keep me involved in whatever it was that annoyed me in the first place it's all good.

thebird

@Arkandel
It's totally too much work. When I say avoid, it's more an issue of if I happen to find out it's the same person, I nope on out of there. Pretty sure one of those people is in jail anyway, sooooo...

Arkandel

... I always wondered, what's the status of having an internet connection at minimal security prisons?

thebird

@Arkandel
I do not know such things. All I know is that person in question was arrested years ago, and I have not heard from the since. Although that does have me curious now, about the internet thing..

Scissors

@Ganymede said:

@Scissors

I'm going to give Kushiel's Debut a shot. I'm still waiting for approval, but it's Thanksgiving down here in the U.S.

Was that meant to be directed at me, Gany? Or a typo/quoting error? If it was meant for me then I'm unfortunately missing the connection.

Ganymede

@Scissors

It sure was directed at you. I was suggesting by implication that you try a non-WoD game.

surreality

Specifically, Florida. Then Family Fun Fest 2015(tm).

The idea of logging in here or on a game from the tablet just... did not grab me this time around.

Scissors

@Ganymede Ah you must've missed my posts in the Kushiel thread, but I've already tried it earlier in the year. Essentially, pleasant enough place with good staff, I got over-enthusiastic because I was on a GoT-kick at the time, then quickly realized it wasn't my cup of tea (didn't dig the setting, and didn't like the glass ceiling political set up).

Nein

My attempts to get back into gaming have come to a screeching halt largely due to the themes I'm interested in being run by control-freak PC Principle staff, or the game being 20-40 idlers who use it as a 'chat with friends from work' venue, then try to cram in a late night session amongst themselves. Newcomers are greeted with a long hoop-jumping justification process only to be turned out into the desolate idler wasteland where their cries of "Anyone want to scene?" echo into the void.

I think the hobby's about done. It had a good run while it lasted.

Misadventure

Quitter.

Usekh

@Nein said:

My attempts to get back into gaming have come to a screeching halt largely due to the themes I'm interested in being run by control-freak PC Principle staff, or the game being 20-40 idlers who use it as a 'chat with friends from work' venue, then try to cram in a late night session amongst themselves. Newcomers are greeted with a long hoop-jumping justification process only to be turned out into the desolate idler wasteland where their cries of "Anyone want to scene?" echo into the void.

I think the hobby's about done. It had a good run while it lasted.

What themes are you interested in?

Arkandel

This is pure speculation on my part so please take it with as many grains of salt as you will, but the numbers of people I've seen hitting Kushiel's Debut lately are pretty impressive.

I'm inclined (this is the speculative part) to think many of them are refugees from nWoD MU* looking for a new home; with the games in the genre either getting bad press (TR/FC) or being reported as pretty inactive (Reno/Eldritch) there could be a migration. And since KD in particular is using nWoD 1.0 rules, which many of those players are already pretty familiar with and easy to use, there are few other barriers to entry; since people who make a transition tend to bring their friends over - who have friends of their own - this could be a thing.

If that's the case, and if such new games manage to retain those players instead of them simply giving something else a try before reverting back, we might eventually see the prevalence of WoD in MU* diminish.

... If it's not the case then it's likely because I'm wrong, and it'd be far from the first time that happened.

TNP

@Arkandel It's a sound hypothesis. I didn't try KD till WoD was dead. I'll be staying there too regardless as to whether activity increases on the WoD games.

Sunny

Having been involved in the discussion with many of the new people on KD, I'd upgrade hypothesis to theory. Most of them are indeed refugees from WoD. We have at least a chunk of people looking for something after RfK.

ThatGuyThere

I would not be surprised, after all KD has a lot going for it. Sane staff, friendly player base, and a theme that lets people get political. The fact that it has a familiar rules set means people might be more likely to give it s hot definitely.
I played there for a while but went the commoner route and ended up idling out when a couple key characters to mine ic either idled or retired. I have debated checking it out again with all the recent chatter and probably would if I had a character slot open.

mietze

I would be cautious. I do not think different genres really tend to convert people. Especially since IME people tend to less run from systems than people--so an influx of the same people trying to get away from each other sometimes works (It did for quite some time on RfK because of the staffing there) but much of the time it does not. Especially if the people are coming into it thinking it will solve all their RP woes. People are people, and when it's the same people, they're even more the people they've always been. IMO.

I enjoy the genre of that game and like variety, so I anticipate having a lot of fun. I worry a wee bit about some of the expectations I've seen, if for no other reason that people have unfortunately been trained into some very VERY bad habits over the last series of WoD games.

Arkandel

Barring specific exceptions (bad staff, the MU* shut down, etc) my experience says people in general leaves games for one main reason: Inactivity. They log on, nothing is happening, they log out and stop trying. If KD utilizes these new numbers by populating opposing factions to encourage political dynamics that won't be an issue.

Now granted there is still reason to be cautious - KD only has two staff members and getting an influx of people can be extremely demanding on their resources. More so since/if some of them already have baggage, drama carried over from their previous games which resurges now, etc.

Sunny

@Arkandel said:

Barring specific exceptions (bad staff, the MU* shut down, etc) my experience says people in general leaves games for one main reason: Inactivity. They log on, nothing is happening, they log out and stop trying. If KD utilizes these new numbers by populating opposing factions to encourage political dynamics that won't be an issue.

Now granted there is still reason to be cautious - KD only has two staff members and getting an influx of people can be extremely demanding on their resources. More so since/if some of them already have baggage, drama carried over from their previous games which resurges now, etc.

And to make sure this is clear, there aren't ever going to be more than two staff. I help out a lot, but I'm not staff on the game. To my understanding, they have no interest in changing how they run things or adding staff members -- it works well for them, and that's how it is. Understanding that there is just two of them and sometimes that means things do take a while is pretty vital. It's not the be-all end-all of the solution to everyone's woes, and it actually is ABSOLUTELY not for everyone.

It uses the WoD system, but it's not a WoD game. You can't approach it with the expectation that the culture is going to be the same -- it's not. I love this game, I have more fun here than anywhere else, because I like this sort of game. My all time favorite places to play were Redemption and Leading Edge. And now KD. It's the best thing since Betty White, for me. But man, not everyone likes the same things I do, or has the same pet peeves as I do. Blah blah and so on.

Lots of great players, lots of fun, not for everyone.

mietze

The latter is what I am most cautious about; people who are expecting games to be a balm to their losses on previous ones tend to be a huge hefty resource drain, yes--sometimes unwittingly. And generally do not stay active beyond the initial shinynew.

Most of the time when I've heard complaints about WoD in the last few years, it's been less about setting and more about people and activity issues. Which is why they tend to repeat since it tends to be the same people, minus a few scapegoats du jour. I do think the different setting and very firm and open stance about the way things will go (no PC king/queen, period, end of story) is helpful though.

Cirno

@Scissors said:

Over the last 12 months I have made on-and-off attempts to dive back into Mushing, but I have noticed a culture change since the days of yore. Gone are the days where you can hit the grid and randomly find public RP, and interact with people you won't normally socialize with. The spheres are now more insular. RP, when it happens, is primarily private. OOC chatter is the new norm. Stories and plots only take place at scheduled events, almost disconnected from "normal RP". Somewhere along the way, the spontaneity of RP and story has been lost.

I hope this trend turns around. I say this not because I'm an old-timer longing for the 'good ol' days', but realistically in a world of flashy MMORPGs and other entertainment options that offer instant gratification, Mushing needs to be more welcoming and more exciting to stay competitive in attracting and retaining players. Falling into the role as a glorified chatroom is the exact opposite of what this hobby needs to be.

Personally I've stopped trying. It's a bit sad and disappointing, but after 20 years Mushing has lost that spark of wonderment for me.

I'd just like to also testify that I have also observed this paradigm shift in these games. I've been playing for about 10 years or so, with a recent very long break, which I am now trying to bring to an end, but I am also not really enjoying the new scene. I remember people walking around on the grids of games, doing stuff circa 2006 or thereabouts.

I enjoyed this, because it was more organic and felt more realistic - the spontaneity resembled life. You really became absorbed into your character. You were forced to improvise on very short notice. It was tremendously immersive.

Nowadays, when everyone plots a scene and then plays through it, it feels like you're just going through the movements. You are harshly aware of the fact that you're just playing a game, instead of experiencing a living, breathing world with real people in it. The immersion is halved, or perhaps even removed.

I die a little on the inside when I suggest RP to someone and they say "But first, let's decide what our characters are going to do!"

And I am like, "Uggggggghhhhhhh....just put our characters in one location and let's just see what happens, already!"

I've talked to other people about this and they have said similar things, so it's not just me and Scissors.

Also, the hobby is not done. It has just changed substantially. A lot can happen in ten years.

There is a My Little Pony mush. It's got over a hundred people. That proves that there are new people in the hobby who want to do things, because you can't tell me that the regular MU* community was nursing a deep desire to roleplay being a chubby pony all these years.

When I found out there was a MLPMush, I knew that those who had uttered the prophecies on the old WORA were right - MU*ing will never die.

I am now firmly convinced that when we achieve jack-into-yer-skull direct-brain-simulation PC gaming, you'll be able to brain-jack yourself into an environment with a black screen and grey words so that you can MU*.

The future will be awesome.

Anyway, go play on the MLPMU*s. They're jam-packed with people, and they're super easy to find partners on.

I haven't been on them, but gee whizzzzz, have you seen the MUDStats pages for the MLPMU*s? Those things really cook! Their activity levels are totally off the fucking chain.