The All-New Down With OPP Thread

Runescryer

Oh, look. It's this jerk again...

No, not me; I'm an entirely different jerk. But I digress...

Looks like everyone's favorite creeper might be back among us after a nice absence. No character names, since receipts are still being collected, and not naming the game while they do their own ongoing investigation.

Just a heads up that several people reviewing logs are having deja vu all over again and noticing behaviors and patterns matching DWOPP's MO.

Love bombing and constant spending of "fake IC money" to be the most perfect dream come true guy ever. Paying for cars, clothing, college tuition
Super protective of his target females around other males. Willing to fight or create dissent to push other males away
Gaslights female players who dislike his IC advances as problematic IC and OOC

Again, not sharing character names yet and giving the game staff a chance to work things out internally. Think of this as the smoke detector going off; time to be aware and see if there is a fire.

So, a general heads up to the community and to Staffers to be aware on their own games of a possible DWOPP return.

Anyone who's also on Brand Mu Day, please feel free to send out a warning there, as well.

Derp

You'd think that they would either get bored or like -- learn to be less creepy. But no. Neither of those things. It's truly baffling.

Runescryer

@Derp Yeah. Just trying to get the MU community alert so that there's more vigilance. Hopefully, putting the microscope into action will make it harder for him to pull his BS and he'll leave quicker.

Kassien

@Runescryer said in The All-New Down With OPP Thread:

MU community alert so that there's more vigilance

What scary is that people who are truly this bad justify their actions and EVERYONE else is wrong and they were unjustifiable judged.

Doesn't mean that something should not be done. I think it comes down to other issues they don't want to self evaluate.

tek

I don't know if those behaviors are exactly the right ones to flag them as being DWOPP, but it's still toxic as fuck and needs to be dealt with.

Ganymede

Still, thanks for putting up a flag. If you learn more from the investigation, please feel free to let us know.

Runescryer

@Ganymede I will provide updates as they develop.

Snackness passed on the word to BND, but I also created an account there to help coordinate 'existential threats' to the community like this. Also posted on the MUHaven Discord.

Any other suggestions on where to spread the word?

ZombieGenesis

For what it's worth, it's on my game that some folk think he's popped up on. I managed to get DWOPP's IP from another game he's been banned on, they don't match.

Not definitive, obviously, but a strike against falling skies and impending doom.

tek

@ZombieGenesis I mean, it sounds like a creep either way you slice it, so

Ghost

I'm hearing rumblings that the creeper may have been banned, but also the people who reported the behavior were banned.

Guess those adventures ain't so infinite?

Lithium

@ZombieGenesis One, I am not DWOPP, and two, what problematic behavior was I banned for, without warning, three, thanks for the heads up and the conversation about any problematic behavior. (ETA: This is sarcasm, obvs, but just in case you think I was gaslighting someone? No clue how I was gaslighting anyone btw)

So I got banned, for reporting being harassed OOCly, I guess.

I don't even know what's going on anymore but this is a surprise.

@Runescryer Warren Worthington, aka Angel, has money. He backed many teams in the comics, and bankrolled many things. I didn't pay for anyones college tuition, I bought a dress for someone, let someone borrow a car, and was founding a comics team, like he had done many times in the comic books. Playing a wealthy character doesn't make someone DWOPP and thems fightin' words.

Enough to make me come back to this place just to say 'No, I am /not/ that person.'

tek

@Lithium What about any of this makes you think coming to post something like this here makes you look good?

Ghost

@Lithium I think you're missing the point that no one was saying for sure it was OPP, but there were adjacent behaviors. It was kept purposefully vague and without names just in case you weren't OPP.

So that anonymity just done flew right out the window.

Lithium

@tek At this point, I don't care about looking 'good'. I care about waking up, and logging on to find I had been banned without warning, and my characters given away already, and then finding out I am accused of gaslighting people, accused of being DWOPP of all things, and that playing a character as they're presented in a year 1 situation moderately accurately is somehow bannable behavior.

I requested staff involvement to a potential problem with a player being weird and aggressive OOCly to me, was told it was handled, and was asked to not respond if a different player contacted me so I didn't respond to that player. I RP'd with everyone, didn't gaslight anyone, and was promoting RP.

The idea that I would just lay down and take it for no good reason is laughable. I don't even know why I was caught in the backlash of someone else having a meltdown.

But honestly, having my IP supposedly 'linked' to DWOPP? I don't care how it looks, I'm /not/ that person, and to suggest it is insulting. Especially along with all the other baseless accusations.

tek

@Lithium You sound exhausting.

Derp

@ZombieGenesis said in The All-New Down With OPP Thread:

For what it's worth, it's on my game that some folk think he's popped up on. I managed to get DWOPP's IP from another game he's been banned on, they don't match.

Not definitive, obviously, but a strike against falling skies and impending doom.

@Lithium said in The All-New Down With OPP Thread:

But honestly, having my IP supposedly 'linked' to DWOPP? I don't care how it looks, I'm /not/ that person, and to suggest it is insulting. Especially along with all the other baseless accusations.

One of these things is not like the other.

GreenFlashlight

@Lithium I am not on the game you were on. I'm in a Discord server with some friends who are on the game you were on. I have no direct experience of you, and no right to speak for anyone who spoke to me in confidence, so I cannot provide you the specific list of verifiable or falsifiable allegations I'm sure you want. And, for the record, I absolutely get you wanting specific allegations. As someone who once lost a job over accusations of things I am quite sure I did not do, I am still haunted years later wondering what specifically anyone thinks I did. It drives me crazy as I wonder if I somehow did the things I was accused of but was too delusional to know I was doing them, or if someone had a reason to tell lies about me.

But I can say that despite not being on that game and not knowing who you are, I know four people who have told me directly that they felt very uncomfortable around your characters and would avoid scenes you were in. I do not say this to indicate you're guilty of anything--I don't even know what specific metaphorical charges have been leveled against you--but because if someone like me can hear about it from so many people, it may indicate something about the way you approach people needs reflection and adjustment.

If I could be more helpful to you, I would. This is as constructive as circumstances allow me to be. If you wish to hear from someone who does have knowledge of you and went out of their way to avoid you, then perhaps a more contrite tone with a focus on repairing relationships over defending your reputation would convince them to reach out to you, or perhaps not. In either event, it seems you must rely on the charity of those who were present.

Ghost

Skimming around and found this.

https://infiniteadventuresmush.com/scene/368

Basic idea snippets:

It's over towards Jeans that Warren pushes the food trays on their rolling carts and he knocks on the door, Jean? You decent?" He calls through the door, not even attempting to open it.
__
"Super decent, come on in!" Jean is walking out of her bedroom as Warren comes in, wearing a pair of leggings and a long sleep tee shirt.
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"That's a shame." Warren says as he walks in, "I was hoping to catch you in something naughty." He smiles at her, he's definitely gotten his mood back at least as he wheels the cart in and then takes his plate.
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"Honestly?" Jean blinks, glancing toward her bedroom, her voice dropping as if someone might be listening in. "I don't think I have any naughty clothes." Just a bunch of sweats, leggings, mom jeans and bunches of tee's and sweatshirts. Boring. She takes a seat, curling up with Warren as she digs into her food, eating like she might have been starving as well. Soup is not a filler!

"I can't blame it. I tried to get you to drink broth a few times and you just weren't having it. At least I got you to drink some water now and again." She shakes her head, bumping that shoulder briefly before she digs into her hash browns.
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"If that's the case, then we have to go shopping and get you some." Warren says with a playful smile, "I can only imagine how good you'll look in some lingerie or even some nice comfortable lacy underwear." He isn't teasing though judging by his thoughtful expression as he continues eating more quickly than normal, he really was starving!
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"Really?" Jean gives Warren a skeptical look, a light smirk on her face. "I have no clue how I would look in lingerie, but I never say no to new clothes. Too much opportunity there to have fun. I love shopping." She is likely the type to not wear anything skimpy though. Witnessing her trying on those clothes would probably be a little boring. She makes no excuses. That's just Jean.

"You don't have to repay me. I'm your friend, Warren. If you need me, I'm here."
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Warren chuckles softly, "You really make it tricky to flirt with you, you know." He bumps her shoulder lightly, "Pay you a compliment and you just ignore it."
__

Basically, my read of this scene it comes off as a scene about a bedsick person turning the heat to max to try to get clothes off, a lot of verbiage about her underwear, a lot of gentle pushing back from the Jean player, and then the very realistic manipulative response of "You're making it hard to flirt with you. I give you compliments and you just ignore them". Which, in terms of very real world predatory/manipulative behavior actual women tend to get pressured with, is akin to "You're in the wrong for not responding to my pushiness, and should react positively to me to make this right."

@Lithium here's a third party suggestion. After skimming a number of these logs there's definitely a pattern of pushiness that some of these players appear to be gently trying to deflect. Now, you could say "Angel is a super sexy rich playboy!", but super rich playboy does not really make it okay to take these kinds of approaches when writing with other players. I'd be mindful in the future about how some of that language can make people feel cornered, and not do that kind of stuff.

But that last quote?

Warren chuckles softly, "You really make it tricky to flirt with you, you know." He bumps her shoulder lightly, "Pay you a compliment and you just ignore it."

When compliments are ignored that's usually a good sign that someone's uncomfortable.Of course I can't speak for the other player in this scene or their comfort levels, but I've been mushing a long, long time and I've seen patterns like this before.

Also: a staffer told you not to talk to a player who might be reaching out to you?

Lithium

@Ghost I want to point out, that Jean approached me, ICly, and OOCly, about being more flirtatious in another scene. She and I are /friends/ OOCly, and that the storyline is supported if the other previous scenes of those characters are ready before hand.

Taken out of context, yes, it could look that way for sure, but, considering the (former) player of Jean (who left due to this nonsense, amongst other issues but not my place to say, that is hers), and I communicate regularly on discord and I am certain would speak up to me if something was wrong, and asked me to play Warren there...

Perhaps not all is as it seems.

Considering that I have been labeled with some highly gross and predatory behavior, of course I react negatively to such accusations.

If you are going to quote a log, then and try to use it out of context to support these accusations then there is nothing I, nor anyone else, can say to make you believe I am not what I am being accused of.

There are plenty of logs of my RP with Warren that do not conform to any such predatory behavior.

@GreenFlashlight If this is true, then I wish people would have informed me because nobody ever told me I was behaving in any way that made anyone uncomfortable. I've had quite a few scenes with a lot of people, and was not aware of anyone responding negatively to my RP with any of my characters.

I don't know who these '4 people' are on discord, I don't know what happened, in what situations, because it has never been brought to my attention. I cannot address situations I have not been told about, and am /always/ willing to work with people, adjust scenes, and RP, to make sure people are as comfortable as can be in RP of whatever nature.

I've been thanked for that, by multiple people.

To me, these claims are completely out of left field, and inconsistent with any information that I had prior. I don't know what I need to do to 'repair' my relationship with the community. I don't even know what I did that was wrong other than pursuing a pre-arranged storyline with Jeans player for our characters that is now being used against me.

There is no way to win here, I say I didn't do these things, others come up with unsupported accounts that I can't possibly defend against.

Even to the point that when others say I didn't do these things, they get attacked for saying I didn't do these things.

So, I am truly sorry that anyone felt they couldn't speak with me about any behavior or RP that was causing any issues. I am sorry that by obeying a do not contact from ZG about Macha's character is somehow gaslighting people. I don't really know what else to say except this, all of this, to me seems like an attack against me as a person and my character which I was not prepared for as it occurred without warning and was a sudden nuclear attack against me.

For whatever that is worth, that is the truth as I know it.

Runescryer

@Lithium said in The All-New Down With OPP Thread:

@Runescryer Warren Worthington, aka Angel, has money. He backed many teams in the comics, and bankrolled many things. I didn't pay for anyones college tuition, I bought a dress for someone, let someone borrow a car, and was founding a comics team, like he had done many times in the comic books. Playing a wealthy character doesn't make someone DWOPP and thems fightin' words.

Please point out where I publicly outed you as DOPP; here, BMD, Discord, anywhere. I went out of my way to keep your handle out of this while @ZombieGenesis investigated. I never mentioned your MSB handle (which I didn't know) or you Ares handle. While we did have our rough encounters, and I'll take my equal share of the blame for that, I never mentioned your character name or any other means of directly identifying you, much less the game this was on.

You outed yourself.

And since you have, here's the receipts for people to independently examine your interactions and decide for themselves.

https://infiniteadventuresmush.com/char/Warren

NOTE: All logs up to 9/21/22 are the ones @Lithium participated in.

If you want, I can also post my log of our OOC chat when things got bought up.

Since we're on the subject, how about discussing you putting Betsy on full blast around the X-Mansion, accusing her of endangering everyone by way of her relationship with Tony and revealing herself as a mutant, when with your last scene, you did the exact. Same. Thing, With Lois; rescuing her from a dangerous situation and revealing that you were a mutant to her.

Let's talk about how you only really started working on the Champions after I started organizing the initial Avengers Event.

Let's talk about how after people started pointing out you playing Warren as a completely spoiled asshole (a valid interpretation, BTW), you suddenly came up with getting 'evil infected' in the Limbo scene, hinting that you're being corrupted by something you had suddenly encountered there. You specifically mentioned an 'evil Warren phase' you were going through in Chat, leading to speculation that you were setting up some kind of 'immaculate cleansing' later that could excuse away all your bad behaviors.

Want more receipts, I got 'em. Part of the nice thing about Ares: automatic record keeping & storage.

I can even provide conversations I had with Staff where I was advised to boot Lobo from the Avengers Event because it was a 'joke' sign-up. Also, where I stuck to my guns about it being an Event free for anyone to participate in; Marvel or DC, legacy Avenger or otherwise.

Let's talk about your 'I'm just asking questions, here' defense about you suggesting (in a private 1 on 1 scene, granted) to Jean that Tony Stark manufactures Anti-Mutant Weapons. Yeah, that pissed me off; the 'I'm not touching you' whisper campaign you were starting. After our OOC conversation, I was still willing to adapt to that point of view you put out there and adapt it into part of Stane's betrayal while Tony was a captive.

All of this behavior from you started when Betsy spurned your advances in RP; the billionaire pissing contest, the whispers about Betsy in the X-Sphere, the sudden idea of creating the Champions.

Face it, man...I won't deny that others gave you shovels, but you dug this hole all on your own, here.