The Descent MUX

surreality

Games with PvP allow you to avoid PvP by simply avoiding conflict with your fellow player.

If only it was that simple, that might be true. Sadly, it's just not.

For many, sure. But there are also many that don't give a fuck that you have no interest in PvP, and will take the part of a very persistent aggressor.

Ganymede

@surreality said in The Descent MUX:

But there are also many that don't give a fuck that you have no interest in PvP, and will take the part of a very persistent aggressor.

Let's not forget the folks that purport to have no interest in PvP, but will take the part of a very persistent aggressor ICly regardless.

Misadventure

Make a contract of PvP required to proceed, which both must agree to.

ThatGuyThere

@Admiral said in The Descent MUX:

Games with PvP allow you to avoid PvP by simply avoiding conflict with your fellow player.

and what about characters that are aggressors? With in the last two years on games with a general focus not specifically PvP or anti PvP I have seen multiple public scenes where people enter the scene specifically to create conflict. . My favorite example recent random player aggression be and another player are in a closed public business, other player was the owner and established it was closed and empty except those PCs present the IC time was at a point where business was ICly closed, it was a two person scene said folks burst in to start shit, because "We figured must be bored." Pro tip we were, then got all pissy when I simply called for a pause to wait for staff adjudication 'cause my spirit mage was going do spirit stuff.
Exactly how can that style PvP be avoided?

I have nothing against PvP games but I do prefer they be clearly labeled as such.

surreality

@ThatGuyThere ...not to mention the people who act obnoxious as hell in a way that is seriously begging for some kind of reaction.

The level of that I dealt with the last time I was playing was so over the damn top I almost walked for good.

Arkandel

@ThatGuyThere That's not a function of PvP, it's the result of specific people being idiots.

It'd have been no less annoying for example if they had barged in on a scene they shouldn't have been part of (a closed business, as per your example, or interrupting a meeting they had no IC knowledge of in some unlikely location) then refused OOC to go even when it was clear they weren't welcome there.

It's as if our hobby relies on collaboration to work or something, right?

Ganymede

@Misadventure said in The Descent MUX:

Make a contract of PvP required to proceed, which both must agree to.

This doesn't really solve the problem player I pointed out: the player who is aggressive with her PC, but refuses to accept push back from her targets.

RfK employed a good system for its political system, which was inherently PvP. You had 3 types of PCs: (1) Political; (2) Support; and (3) Civilian. The difference between Support and Civilian were relatively minor, but the important line was between Political and Support.

If you wanted to rule a domain or hold a title, you had to be Political, which meant that you could kill or be killed ICly by other Political PCs. Support PCs could not rule a domain or hold a title, but could support or assist other Political PCs; however, a Support PC could not be killed, and could not kill others.

Anyhow, as it applies here, it just seems that the policies were unclear. I can't see how this game could work unless there were some amount of PvP, lethal or not.

surreality

@Ganymede It goes beyond just PK, too. I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've run across people who act in ways that would have some kind of consequence, but they flip their ever lovin' shit the moment someone so much as says 'boo' to them about it. (The character that mouths off constantly to everyone, the character that never stops acting like a complete brat/idiot, the character that can't seem to stop themselves from whining like the won the gold medal in the first world problems olympics, etc.)

Taika

This is the first wiki page that I altered, with assistance of other eyes: http://descentmux.com/index.php/Survival_System#System

And this is the second one that I revised and added a couple of bolded sections to: http://descentmux.com/index.php/PvP/PK_Guidelines

Feedback is very much welcome.

ThatGuyThere

@Arkandel
I have run into a lot more of those problem players being PvP types then not, hence my avoidance of places with an emphasis on PvP.
I fully support those who make games to focus on what they want to focus on , but as pertains to this thread, to also state what that focus will be clearly.

Insomnia

Honestly I don't see what about the files that came off as a PK heavy game. Conflict happens and isn't a bad thing. And, as a whole MUers seem to jump to the kill the person I don't like first conclusion, true but I don't see how a game admitting it's going to happen and giving a bonus for being drama-free when it happens means All PK, All The Time!

Taika

Update!

Things are coming along. We've had a handful of new approvals, and are starting to get some plot and rp momentum (YAY!).

I could use the help of a wiki person to install CSS or walk me through the process - there's been offers of help, but without CSS, the code they have isn't compatible.

And I could really use a bit of code. A tracker to display and modify stats on grid rooms. One that I could muck about with and reskin/repurpose to use as a boon tracker. If it means I have to go through and restat rooms and do a ton of data entry? I'm game to do the gruntwork, I just can't find time while working a bunch of OT to begin to learn more about code to build it myself.

somasatori

@Taika said in The Descent MUX:

I could use the help of a wiki person to install CSS or walk me through the process - there's been offers of help, but without CSS, the code they have isn't compatible.

Do you mean the CSS extension for Mediawiki? If so, go here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExtensionDistributor/CSS

Once you download that, you'll want to extract the contents of the folder to your Extensions folder in your media wiki directories. You can do this in a couple ways. You could put the tarball downloaded from the site into your extensions folder (found by using an FTP client to go to your provider, then going into www/mediawiki1.27/extensions -- note, if you've renamed the mediawiki folder to something else, it'll obviously have a different name), and extracting from there using shell commands. Alternately, you can extract locally and then upload the contents of the archive into that same folder. Without knowing what your architecture looks like, I can't tell you exactly where to go, but the extensions folder is front and center in the main mediawiki directory.

After that, go into the main wiki directory and find a file called LocalSettings.php. You'll want to scroll down to the section where it says # Add Configuration options below (usually at the bottom of the file) and copy and paste this:

require_once "$IP/extensions/CSS/CSS.php";

After that, save and close the LocalSettings.php file. PHP takes effect immediately. You may need to clear your cache to use the extension on pages and get it to work for you. Following that, you can use the following template on your pages (just as an example, you can put whatever CSS you want):

{{#css:
b {
color: slategrey;
font-size: 1.6em;
font-family: Palatino, serif;
}
}}

Edit to add: clarified why you'd need to clear your cache.

Taika

Hmm. The link doesn't seem to have the version that digitalocean is using - which is 1.21.2.

somasatori

Oh! Yep, that is a bit outdated. I think you'd need the older CSS extension, which used to be called PageCSS. That's what the Reach used. You can find the more updated version of that which works with 1.16+ here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewPageCSS

Taika

@somasatori - You are amazing. I managed to fumble in it in! Thank you so much for the help and idiot-proof instructions.

somasatori

No problem! Your game looks pretty cool, so glad I could help.

Taika

Quick update!

Thanks to @Cobaltasaurus and @Thenomain we have +resources, +equipment, +ic/+ooc, +meetme, and some other awesome goodies and small code fixes. Seriously, I can't thank those two enough for all the help they've been.

I've gotten a couple of plots tossed out and rolling, people are using the grid system (which I am already working on fine tuning), and more importantly:

Winter is Coming.

There will be some big, grid sweeping stories (Famine, Pestilence, shortages and oh-so-hungry Draugr!) in the works.

My plan for the big story is to have it be a launching pad for smaller spin offs, rather than an in-your-face 'participate or get screwed' sort of thing. It will also have effects (temporary or permanent!) on the grid squares, just to keep things interesting.

Taika

In before rumormill:

Yes we banned someone. It was @Sovereign / Rex / Angelo / That rapey harassy guy. reasonably certain we got him before he had a chance to be gross on any of our players.

Update:

We're adding mage, and Gehenna is taking on custom goodies.

surreality

@Taika said in The Descent MUX:

In before rumormill:

Yes we banned someone. It was @Sovereign / Rex / Angelo / That rapey harassy guy. reasonably certain we got him before he had a chance to be gross on any of our players.

Update:

We're adding mage, and Gehenna is taking on custom goodies.

<insert effusive cheerleading here>

Edit: No, that really deserves proper imagery.

Outspoken feminist advocate chosen on purpose, because fuck that guy.