@Pondscum said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I'll say it again, it's being staffed by people that staffed on Firan. Why anyone expected anything different to the mentality that prevailed there, I have no idea.
And now the penny drops for why Arx has so quickly become a Klearing-howse of Krayzee.
@Pondscum said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I'll say it again, it's being staffed by people that staffed on Firan. Why anyone expected anything different to the mentality that prevailed there, I have no idea.
Having suffered at the hands of those loons before, I do not see the same mentality from Firan in Arx.
@WTFE said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
And now the penny drops for why Arx has so quickly become a Klearing-howse of Krayzee.
Can't say I've seen any crazy on staff's end in game. Some of the players I might avoid but that's the same anywhere. When something like this comes up, we can only form our opinion based on what we know. When it's something that happens in game via page or request that most of us aren't privy to, we have to fall back on what we know of those involved. In this case, for me, it's how do they represent themselves here? So, yeah. my money is on @lordbelh being the reasonable one.
@FiranSurvivor said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
@Pondscum said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I'll say it again, it's being staffed by people that staffed on Firan. Why anyone expected anything different to the mentality that prevailed there, I have no idea.
Having suffered at the hands of those loons before, I do not see the same mentality from Firan in Arx.
Did you disagree with staff though? I don't know if you have, I'm just saying that in the most extreme cases of drama I've seen in my years MUSHing there are always people saying "well, I didn't see anything", which happened to be because they were - by design or otherwise - on the right side. It's easy to escape unscathed if there's nothing to go after you about.
In that way my experience of Arx is about the same as in most MU* I've played in the last few years; since I'm not an active participant in the work being put in I have relatively few if any demands from the MU* itself; that means I don't pitch things too hard or follow up on my suggestions; I propose changes, some of them are adopted, some are not, but I don't try too hard to convince staff about them. So I haven't had to see what happens if I dissent because frankly... I don't care enough. I play a character. That's it.
For full disclosure though it does bother me that a friend is banned from a game I play. Not only did I trust @lordbelh to be a good player to the point where I rolled a character in his House but it casts doubts on the House's viability overall. For those who might be unfamiliar with House Thrax, it's... a bit different than the others, thematically. IC it takes thralls (who are similar to slaves) and it's pretty patriarchal in nature - traditionally only men find themselves in leadership positions. This wasn't a player choice, it's how it was created by staff, but given how much of a trigger issue this sort of thing has been for Hellfrog in the past it casts the whole notion in doubt - if playing the game as intended can land players in hot waters why was it put like that to begin with?
I've had talks with Victus over time. Not many - I avoid talking about RP OOC too much as opposed to simply... roleplaying - but enough to know he was discontent to no greater extent than most people do about their MU*. That is, he wasn't furious or raging, he was frustrated about things he sounded like he thought could be changed. And whether that happened to be true or not, regardless of whether staff was amiable to listening to one of their players, being banned for it sounds like a disproportionate knee-jerk reaction. "Dude, shut up about this already, I don't want to hear about it again" is quite reasonable. But banning him? That's the nuclear option.
I'm not convinced it was justified.
@Arkandel said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
@FiranSurvivor said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
@Pondscum said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I'll say it again, it's being staffed by people that staffed on Firan. Why anyone expected anything different to the mentality that prevailed there, I have no idea.
Having suffered at the hands of those loons before, I do not see the same mentality from Firan in Arx.
Did you disagree with staff though? I don't know if you have, I'm just saying that in the most extreme cases of drama I've seen in my years MUSHing there are always people saying "well, I didn't see anything", which happened to be because they were - by design or otherwise - on the right side. It's easy to escape unscathed if there's nothing to go after you about.
I will state for the record that I have disagreed with staff in conversations with them without being banned and I know others who also have. This is not commentary either way on the justification of this particular event, but just saying that IME it's not the case that anyone who puts a toe out of line gets thrown off the game.
Was Victus banned? I thought he was just leaving? The only person I know of who was banned recently was Julea, for something seeming to be unrelated?
There was a recent post by Hellfrog to the tune of "don't be sarcastic in your communications with staff". That was just yesterday, and today @lordbelh is bidding the game adieu. I don't know if that's coincidence or not, but I do know that if is, that's not behavior I associate with the player, who has always been patient and friendly in all of our interactions, even when I was being particularly neurotic (because it happens).
"If you stand for nothing Burr, what will you fall for?"
-- Hamilton: An American Musical
Eh, don't be sarcastic wasn't the post. It was don't be abusive or passive aggressive. Basically, be polite. Which I think we can all agree is a good rule to follow with staff and with fellow players.
I am joining @Roz in saying this is not commentary on the incident, since I certainly don't know what happened.
@FiranSurvivor said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Was Victus banned? I thought he was just leaving? The only person I know of who was banned recently was Julea, for something seeming to be unrelated?
What'd Julea do? Has anyone else been banned yet?
That people have managed it in a game that hasn't been open to play for a year either means there's either been some hilariously bad players or a staffing team that's whimsically dropping the hammer.
@Goyim said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
That people have managed it in a game that hasn't even been open for a year either means there's either been some hilariously bad players or a staffing team that's whimsically dropping the hammer.
Marvel: 1963 has banned 2 or 3 people so far and we've been open less than a year too. There's definitely some bad players out there though hilarious is not what I'd call them.
... No. There can be bad players within a week of a game opening. I mean, the time of a game doesn't relate to whether a player is or isn't ban-worthy. Implying that is silly.
#FreeFarfalla
Yeah, it's ridiculous to think you need a game to be open more than a year to recognize there are awful players you don't want playing in your space.
@Goyim said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
What'd Julea do? Has anyone else been banned yet?
I do know some eyes were turned toward her direction regarding blocking other people out of rp, and likewise some regard as getting an overt amount of attention and shinies plotwise. I could not speak as to the veracity of it all, but the former would be more likely a reason for ban than the latter.
Peculiarly, I noticed Julea the character is still in play, though the player got banned, and she's technically listed in the RIP section on the wiki. I'm assuming the character's presence is needed for the current plotline, after which, who knows.
"If you stand for nothing Burr, what will you fall for?"
-- Hamilton: An American Musical
What does passive aggressive mean? Is it so clear that people would be comfortable banning a player based on it being perceived to happen?
Yes, I know the industrial psych version of it, but that only vaguely related to how the term is used.
@FiranSurvivor said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Was Victus banned? I thought he was just leaving?
He was banned.
Did he say perkele?
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Cupcake said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
@Goyim said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
What'd Julea do? Has anyone else been banned yet?
I do know some eyes were turned toward her direction regarding blocking other people out of rp, and likewise some regard as getting an overt amount of attention and shinies plotwise. I could not speak as to the veracity of it all, but the former would be more likely a reason for ban than the latter.
Neither are correct.
Went out of my way to involve people who were struggling to get involved in story and plot, but my play times sometimes made it tricky to catch up with everyone I wanted to.
I do not think I got an overt amount of attention from staff, I hadn't been involved in any GM'd scenes. Only 1 story request. I was given a really good secret though, and that was crucial in helping me integrate and get involved, particularly towards the end of my play time.
Player of Victus in particular was very inclusive and welcoming when my PC joined Thrax on an OOC level.
@Misadventure said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Did he say perkele?
Not to me at least... and I don't want to speculate.
@Pondscum said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I'll say it again, it's being staffed by people that staffed on Firan. Why anyone expected anything different to the mentality that prevailed there, I have no idea.
That's a red herring. Plenty of Firan's staff were fine people, who saw a game with an interesting theme and a large player base that wanted to help out. Some staff were fine people, who were in a staffing environment that was distorted and dysfunctional and ended up showing their worst self instead of their best self. Some staff were fine people, but shouldn't have been staff.
Many Firan staffers have diffused out into the MU community at large to play and even staff on other games. From what I've seen, they generally have good reputations.
That has not been my experience. Not regarding @lordbelh or you in particular, but Thrax as a whole has been weirdly exclusive in a number of ways that were just-- odd? Making Donrai's funeral private and secretive is the thing that comes to mind right off the top of my head, but there were a number of incidents. I don't know if it was the culture that was built or not, or whatever. But I don't think the players in Thrax have been particularly helpful of the Thrax vs the world mentality by their actions.
That's my two cents. Take it for whatever it is worth.
#FreeFarfalla
@Pondscum said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I'll say it again, it's being staffed by people that staffed on Firan. Why anyone expected anything different to the mentality that prevailed there, I have no idea.
And now the penny drops for why Arx has so quickly become a Klearing-howse of Krayzee.
