MSB: The meta-discussion

[Ghost]

@Arkandel Care or not, I was just throwing my two cents in.

Human element or not, it's not going to change and a certain amount of the behavior can be very high school to me. There's risks and cliques and drama and unethical windbags and people who think their opinion holds more weight than others. It's really just people grabbing the mic out of Jerry Springer's hands. It is what it is and what it definitely is, is not to be taken too seriously.

Coming to this place for validation is a bad idea.

So disagree with me or not, it's just how I see it, and I think this place is better used for small talk, figuring out which new games are around, and minor amounts of networking, because on a long enough timeline the human element requires it turn into a redneck mama joke battle Royale of human social bullshit.

[Meg]

@Ghost

I was going to say something profound about invisible tallies of good and negative and shit but-- I got nothing. Idk. I don't think our community would be better off without MSB. And at the very least, I think even if someone decided to close the doors tomorrow, we'd be left with a vacuum that would, I'd say, make the community /worse/ off.

But I've seen you catch a lot of flak for even posting different opinions to bullshit levels, so I can agree with some of your points.

It's just more complicated of a tally than I think it is getting simplified down to.

(Also, anyone who wants to avoid me over a post I've made on this forum, please. Feel free.)

[Thenomain]

@Meg

I stopped reading the Hog Pit for a reason. I want to expect more of others and people demand more out of me, and that just isn't going to happen there. It should happen here, but apparently @Ganymede doesn't care. Clearly everyone's talking about him.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Alamias said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

I'd be willing to play on a 7th Sea game.

So off topic but I would dearly love any 7th Sea game not focused on pirates, or even set in a coast city so Pirate folks count get their pirate on and the folks like me who would rather be Three Musketeers or the Scarlet Pimpernel could get our swerve on as well.

[Arkandel]

@ThatGuyThere said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

@Alamias said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

I'd be willing to play on a 7th Sea game.

So off topic but I would dearly love any 7th Sea game not focused on pirates, or even set in a coast city so Pirate folks count get their pirate on and the folks like me who would rather be Three Musketeers or the Scarlet Pimpernel could get our swerve on as well.

There's a thread for this discussion but it's not this one. Yeah, that's right, I'm the thread police! The thread nazi if you will.

[Alamias]

@Arkandel Blame @Thenomain and @Miss-Demeanor. They mentioned 7th Sea.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Arkandel said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

There's a thread for this discussion but it's not this one. Yeah, that's right, I'm the thread police! The thread nazi if you will.

You don't have the mod indicator next to your name so I will post what I wanna post.

[Arkandel]

@ThatGuyThere You would bruise my delicate feelings that way? You savage.

[Ghost]

@Meg said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

I don't think our community would be better off without MSB

You know, the damning part is, I agree with you 100% on this. The community wouldn't be as well off without MSB. I think it's got a useful purpose and could be a pretty positive place if not for the way some egos clash and negativity breeds. MSB is a bit of a double-edged sword like that.

I know that there are some people who like me, some people who don't, but all my opinions aside, I know, in the end, that I'm ethical and I'm not a bad person. So this filter that happens here, I'm self aware enough to know that I can't be the only one who approaches this place like: "Jesus, I don't know why some of these people hate me, but if they knew me in RL, I'm confident they'd think I'm alright." It's like a game of telephone. Everything skews. (Though, @skew is awesome).

Just...Some people like to skew shit either on purpose, or through nasty habit.

[Thenomain]

@Alamias said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

@Arkandel Blame @Thenomain and @Miss-Demeanor. They mentioned 7th Sea.

Because we are awesome.

--

another legit edit:

@Ghost said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

Just...Some people like to skew shit either on purpose, or through nasty habit.

There is a point where people have to stop just wishing that things are different and start pushing change for the better. I think that you are at this point. Name names. You don't have to be a jackass for defending your views or pointing out the fallacies of "popular clique-heavy posters", but you've been dancing around this for your last three or possibly four posts. It seems that you think that it's important, so say something.

[Paris]

@Ghost re: slagging: I learned a long while back that folks with a grudge will use forums like this (and this one, too) to dishonestly try to sway public opinion about folks they don't like. That, unfortunately, happens in any roleplay community, as it's a really toxic and inevitable component of fandom in general.

A few folks will pile on even if the accusations are outright false, because there's always that type of outraged person around. But most people, in game, will still play with you anyway and most people will have no clue about the haterade being spewed. Most don't give a shit about the drama and just want to rp.

I've had a very few people come to me in a panic over unfounded accusations about a third party solely based on stuff here. They ended up admitting they had never seen the behavior described, or talked to anyone who had ever directly seen that behavior, and eventually concluded that maybe they should trust their lying eyes more, and internet rumors less.

My suggestion is always to just keep being a decent person. You can't stop liars from lying (it is pointless to engage with a liar because they only double down and they want you to respond), but if you aren't doing what you're said to do, reasonable people will notice the consistency over time.

[surreality]

@Miss-Demeanor said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

@Thenomain You know, I have never played a 7th Sea game, but i have had so many friends tell me how amazing it is that I would absolutely try it. Also... pirates. God I would kill for a good pirate game. I WANT TO BE A PIRATE DAMMIT.

...that is actually what I've been working on since late October. OT/MUX, not 7th Sea/Evennia, but more Black Sails + non-WoD/Original Supernatural weirdness.

[Miss Demeanor]

@surreality YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS. PIRATES!

[Catsmeow]

@Miss-Demeanor said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS.

Who took off their sunglasses?!

[EmmahSue]

I don't play anywhere, and haven't in... well, quite some time. I've devoted my non-work time to other things ('other', not necessarily 'better'). But I'm still here lurking, and trying to make sure there's no outright fires going down. We're hands-off as much as possible on purpose; other than the framework around which it stretches, the community can decide for itself what it will be. That's not to say the framework doesn't provide guidance -- putting Hog Pit default-no makes a huge difference -- but we're trying not to get too manipulative behind the scenes.

ES

[Pandora]

@EmmahSue Out of curiosity, I've wondered a few times about the rationale behind making the Hog Pit opt-in rather than opt-out? It is much easier to see something, say 'Do Not Want' and opt out of it than it is to not see something, say 'Do Want Thing I Do Not Know Exists But Would Like To See' and opt-in.

It has turned the Hog Pit into a semi-secret tabloid that people share self-serving tidbits from to their buddies via pages/Skype/smoke-signals instead of an open-forum that people have the option of ignoring. Ignorance is bliss, but there's much to be said for an informed public as well, not that I'm claiming the Hog Pit is the Freedom Press or anything.

[lordbelh]

Coming late to the party:

I think what MUsoapbox does is offer a sense of community, and a places to air both thoughts and grievances that are sometimes legitimate and sometimes not. But in general its a net positive to the community. I know people who will deride it, but they still read a lot of it, and reference it.

I use it less than I used to, partly because I feel a lot of the discussions are recycled. There's only so many times you can chew on the same issues before they've lost all flavor and texture. I would've loved it if more people used it, and it had a wider field of opinions and viewpoints.

I don't think its as much of an echo chamber as some people would say. I disagree with too many people here on too many things, including people whose opinions I'll still respect even if I think they're full of bullshit on occasion. People will argue back and forth, and if some new posters feel they're getting piled on I think its often because the old crowd have seen and cut through their (new to them, old to others) arguments so many times that it becomes almost by rote.

But if its not an echo chamber, then its still limited by its prevalence of WoD leaning players.

I only saw a bit of Wora before it ended. I thought it too was a net positive, but I didn't like it very much.

[RnMissionRun]

@Pandora Personally, I'm grateful that it's hidden by default. Makes it much easier to ignore.

[Shlappy]

I could take it or leave it. There are occasionally useful things, but I'm not really a member of the community at large. I'm one of those people that doesn't like the target painted on their head, so I steer clear of a good many of you if I'm honest. I dread the day I do something someone else doesn't like and they run a hate campaign on here for me with their buddies.

So it has its good points and bad points. I think it's more useful for game designers than anything else. That's something I've been gaining interest in learning more about, so it's still a useful tool. If I find a better forum for that, I probably wouldn't have much use for this. Game ads, maybe?

But that's like - just my opinion, man.

[Ghost]

It's kind of like how for hundreds of years, artists perfected the task of using chalk, pencil, and paint to capture all that humanity has to offer. To make art. To inspire. To breathe life onto canvas...

...And then by 2000 A.D. people started drawing penises on everything.

Some people use MSB to make​ art.
Others use it to draw dick-tanks and T-Rex dinosaurs having sex with He-Man.