Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?
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Realism? Most people I know, you know, we all know... are not the epitomes of their Thing. Olympic athletes, maybe. Yeah, yeah, I get that most games are superhero/fantasy games on logarithmic scales, but even in the scale of a game system... it always bugged me how some players have this attitude of "Best or Bust". Not you, specifically, but Gamers Out There (aka: They).
I know a lot of players who enjoy "casual play", and those that are gunning to be on E-sports leagues/ladders. There are those that scoff and ridicule if your Fighter doesn't take Feat, Feat, Feat and Feat but your Knight better take Feat, Feat, Other Feat. Game systems that encourage this sort of behavior have, frankly, started to bore me. I think, personally, that this is where "Template starts" have started to crop up and become a thing. "Want a Good Fighter? Take this Template, and we'll kit you out. Take all the guesswork|creativity out of it for you."
It's the "Dude Do You Even Lift?" of the RPG player world.
-- Rook, again with the cane-waving.
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@Rook said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
Realism? Most people I know, you know, we all know... are not the epitomes of their Thing. Olympic athletes, maybe. Yeah, yeah, I get that most games are superhero/fantasy games on logarithmic scales, but even in the scale of a game system... it always bugged me how some players have this attitude of "Best or Bust". Not you, specifically, but Gamers Out There (aka: They).
It's pretty hilarious how much your character stands out if you RP them as being...average at their job. Not bad, but good at some parts of it and not great at other parts of it. This is the way I've found to most enjoy myself in spheres/factions crowded with similar types.
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But "realism" is terribly imprecise, I know English is already a horribly imprecise language but "realism" is one of the worst offenders in that regard because everyone has a different idea as to what is realistic especially in regard to a game system, since we run into things like "how often should a trained professional it a man-sized target while shooting?" as the FS3 thread a while back showed even if the results are actually realistic they can still be perceived as non-realistic.
I purposely choose "sub-optimal" as the term to use because I wanted to acknowledge the mathematical differences in the choices but did not want to you a definite pejorative term like "worse" since I do not believe the chose to be worse it is simply a choice, much like I do not hold min-maxing against those who choose to do it, just two different choices to made in the same rules framework. I guess less efficient could work as well but to me that sounds more negative. -
People don't make character choices on MUSHes because of optimal mathematics. They make character choices because of perceived coolness. Having a lot of dice to throw at a certain task is a factor here, but it's not the only one. Other factors include story elements and prominence in the setting. A sometimes-problem* with many settings, including The Witcher, Dragon Age, Star Wars without the Extended Universe, Shannara, the Dresden Files, the X-Men, the World of Darkness, Exalted, etc. is that you have most of the canon story wrapped around a small group of elevated individuals. In Exalted, there are exactly 200 Solar Exaltations in Creation, and not all of them are incarnated at any point in time. So, because the well-meaning game runner wants diversity and a rich game world, they allow and maybe even encourage people to play "mechanically disadvantaged" characters, who can't possibly be on the same level as the characters who take center stage in canon. A number of people (like me) take up that offer, and you end up with a small cadre of "normal folks" hanging out with a bunch of superheroes (which is actually canon-appropriate for some of these settings). Maybe the normal folks have access to their own resources, but you know, because they're lower in number and don't have as much canon plot support, they might not get quite as much attention from staff as the supers. They certainly can't participate in all the plots, whereas the supers can easily participate in "normal folks" plots (and sometimes can make those plots feel anticlimactic). Over time, many of the "normal folks" players lose interest, focusing on their supers alts. The ones who are committed have to do more and more stuff with their supers-playing friends, but they're still locked out of a lot, either because of canon or because they can't keep up mechanically.
So no, you can't blithely say, "Oh, people can choose to play mechanically disadvantaged characters," because that doesn't work. Some people will have some fun with it, and then that part of the game will wither and die because everybody's playing Witchers and Sorceresses and occasionally you'll have someone playing Vernon Roche and min-max their stats to a point where they can compete. If you want a setting where people with magic and people without magic can play together as equals, the magic has to have costs and you have to make a concerted effort to have prominent setting elements that have nothing to do with magic. Then a greater number of people will participate with the "normal folks" side and it will retain more momentum and interest.
* "Sometimes-problem": it's a feature, and it's not always a problem, but sometimes it is. The problematic element is usually amplified with the changes necessary to translate an existing fictional world or a tabletop system to a MUSH.
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Thinking about some classic D&D campaign settings...
Dark Sun: Choose a City-State (probably Tyr) to be the setting focus and abolish the Troy Denning books from game lore
Council of Wyrms: Lots of possibilities here; political games played on the Draconic level
Ravenloft: Start out with one Domain, gradually add in others. Play up the character corruption angles, eventually trapping characters in their own domains
Spelljammer: Couple of options here. Set it on the Spelljammer itself, and you have a faction politics game. Set it in a single Sphere, centered around a station/trade hub like the Rock of Braal
Planescape: Plenty of possibilities here, lots of political/faction play
Al Qadim: Not the full Forgotten Realms, just the Al Qadim setting. Exotic enough to generate interest, but also possessing enough familiarity
Birthright: Honestly, this is the one I think would really work the best and am the most excited about (despite Spelljammer being my favorite setting of all time). Use 2e, 5e, or a quick conversion to Pathfinder. Set it in the Anurian region with a meta-plot of the re-unification of the Empire. L&L with occasional dungeon delving and monster hunting. TONS of political and intrigue RP possibilities.
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@Runescryer said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
Al Qadim: Not the full Forgotten Realms, just the Al Qadim setting. Exotic enough to generate interest, but also possessing enough familiarity
I would be all over this, keep the setting ditch the D&D part of it. My longest running TT campaign was weekly for a decade in Al-Qadim, could have tons of intrigue and all. But probably too niche to gain enough interest for large mu*, maybe better as OTT.
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@Runescryer said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
Planescape: Plenty of possibilities here, lots of political/faction play
Sigil would make an excellent setting for a MUSH, for a wide variety of reasons. I just wouldn't want to do it with any version of D&D (Pathfinder maybe, but it doesn't have to be tied to a system, especially not a system that's just a glorified miniatures wargame).
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I would jump all over an Al Qadim or Sigil based game. With or without the D&D system.
I had an original campaign game that was loosely based on Al Qadim for a while and it was a ton of fun to run.
Dark Sun is my favorite setting though, I even stomached the 4e conversion to play it and it was still fun.
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@Rook The problem is rarely that some players pick more optimized builds than others, simply because PvP is a rarity.
The real issue is very often PrPs are tuned for the upper echelons of twinkery, which sets the bar pretty high. If I'm making sure my scenes so they can challenge combat monsters whose every XP is surgically spent to maximize their dice pools then the regular Joe (whose concept could be also combaty, but who hasn't taken extra care) might very easily get stomped hard.
Then suddenly you have PCs who're supposed to be generally on par with each other - created around the same time, similarly focused, and about the same activity levels - be on completely different levels of competence when entering plots.
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RE: Sigil - This idea is wrapped into my game, if we/I can get it done. It's not D&D, though.
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A couple more games that I think would be neat:
Dreamscape: Laruna ... Reminds me a little of Exalted. Your character has been blessed with the legacy of heroes and god-like powers that can potentially change the course of history (literally for some of the archetypes).
The Veil: Because I like cyberpunk.
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Annnnddddd....
I just found out about Marvel 1872
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/1872_Vol_1_1
So, yeah. This is a thing. This is an awesome thing. This is probably an awesome thing that needs to happen.
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@Runescryer the alt timelines what if type stories are good as adventure ideas on one theme comic places. Like Victorian era fantastic four or golden age of pirates avengers. At least for me, seems better as off shoot of bigger continuity, because sustained wild West or 30s Chicago seems to fall flat the more supers that get added to it. Sort of the same way I can't do small east coast WoD with 30+ players all playing supernatural beings in small town.
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I've always bandied about the idea of a spy MUSH, such a James Bond theme, a mixed spy theme game with several themes in the vein of a comic MUSH, or an original theme with a Syphon Filter feel devoted to intelligence/counter intelligence in a historical era.
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I am honestly surprised that Planescape hasn't been done yet. Birthright would also be awesome, but it not being a setting for a MU* isn't surprising considering how unknown it is. Then again, Firan was Birthright-ish with nobles having inborn magic.
What about Planescape combined with Birthright? That would be an interesting combination. Maybe throw in some Mystic Empyrean.
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Birthright would approach a Civilization/Nation-States MUSH, wouldn't it?
The problem with that would be deciding who gets their own land grab, and who works for the people with the land grab.
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@Chet said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:
Birthright would approach a Civilization/Nation-States MUSH, wouldn't it?
The problem with that would be deciding who gets their own land grab, and who works for the people with the land grab.
Well...let me break it down quickly....
On the main continent, there's 5 'Nations': Anuirean (Britons/Gaulic), Brecht (German/Dutch merchants), Khinasai (Moors), Rjurik (Viking/Celts), Vos (Rus/Hun barbarians). The main area with the political action is the ruins of the Anuirean Empire, which is basically Camelot & England 500 years after Arthur's death. Anuire is divided into 23 Domains, plus an Imperial City that's neutral territory. Each geographic Domain is divided into multiple Provinces, between 1 and 10, with the average being about 4 Provinces/Domain. So right there, that's @92 Provinces, we'll say. Each Province has 4 different types of Holdings that can be controlled and count as your political power/base: Law (courts, magistrates, troops), Guilds (craftsmen and trading), Temples (organized churches), and Source (magical nodes). Depending on the Rating of a Provence, it tells you not only how much power each of the 4 Holding types can go up to, but how many Regents can divide up the ratings in each category. Example: a Rating 4 Province (fairly average), can have a max of 4 Law, 4 Guild, and 4 Temple, Source being a separate, but still connected, rating. A Rating 4 Province also means that up to 2 Regents can split each particular type of Holding. So, 1 Regent could have 3 Law and a second Regent control 1 Law in a Province. So, overall, in just Anuire alone, there's over 350 different points of political control. To me, that seems like a healthy amount for a game.
Also, all the Holdings are already distributed in the campaign book, so someone starting as the Regent of a particular Domain would start with the listed Holdings, some of which are in neighboring Domains. There's multiple Guilds with Holdings all over and multiple Temples, even dedicated to the same God/Goddess.
And that's just in 1 nation. For simplicity's sake, I wouldn't think a game would stretch out into the other Nations; that would make things too unwieldy.
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The Black Company series by Glen Cook would make for a fantasic mu* setting. There would be so much that could be done story wise and with names like Croaker, One-Eye, The Limper, and Moonbiter... how could you go wrong?! It looks like they are in talks to bring the whole thing to TV as well.
If you don't know the series you should check it out. I loved the story and writing. I could read though all the books on deployments and never get tired of Croaker's narriation or Goblin and One-Eye and all the magic pranks they'd play on one another.
Then when it's all over and the rest of you are ready for Dead Animal Pickup, I'm gonna go balls deep into Dahl. But only because she asked me to. Sweet-like. - Riddick (2013)
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@ThatOneDude I can't agree more
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The re is a D20 campaign setting for Black Company that can be perused for ideas. Its masterwork item system is my houseruled replacement for most D&D magic items.
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Company-Campaign-Setting/dp/1932442383Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
