My thoughts on spoilers had been its way past time to worry about those too but then a couple of people mentioned reading the books.. but they can just be spoiled. Really nothing super surprising occurs that is an OMG didn't see that happening moment.
"prince played by Jensen Ackles is a badass swordsman" describes not a small amount of characters actually.
@three-eyed-crow said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
@tempest
For me, the concern is the large population who LOVES L&L games driving a WoT game toward being a standard L&L game. Which has happened in fantasy settings less suited for it before, and will happen again. I don't want to rag on that, even though it's not my bag, but it's definitely a thing staff is going to have to decide how much they want to support. There will be demand.
Yeah, I for sure agree. And WoT has L&L elements, but the focus was never generic L&L shit.
@wildbaboons said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
"prince played by Jensen Ackles is a badass swordsman" describes not a small amount of characters actually.
And yeah, it does, but they're not just "random prince from X-Place". They go off to be warders, from what I recall.
Edit : I could be mistaken, but iirc, Elaine's half brother (I forget his name) wasn't a SUPER badass, until after he'd gone to the tower and spent years training there.
Been a while since I read the books.
@tempest Gawyn.
And yes. He was not badass. He got training. He became badass.
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
I'm just not a fan of limiting special playable concepts. I'd rather not have them at all than restrict them - because who ends up with them? It creates a big ugly divide, generates drama and appearance of favoritism that I've never seen work out for MU*, you know?.
I have 0 familiarity with this setting but so much of this. If you are only going to let 'certain small amounts' of people play something, it doesn't matter the metric by which you decide who can do it - it's going to create bad feelings. If it needs to be limited, make them off limits for players and just use them as antagonists or something.
Why would we want to play out the events of the book @WildBaboons ? We should be creating our own story in that world that is familiar and loved.
There is no need to follow the story in that respect. Maybe on this world male channelers take a long time to go mad, so they police their own. Maybe there is two towers already, one male, one female, and the politics between them etc.
Trying to create the exact same story is kind of weird in my opinion, because that story has already been told.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
@lithium said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
Why would we want to play out the events of the book @WildBaboons ? We should be creating our own story in that world that is familiar and loved.
I agree with that. I can think of few things worse than a game based on an official canonical plot that needs to happen the same way as it did in that material, because not only do I know as a player how things will play out well in advance, but I also need to make my character do things he might not normally just to maintain the continuity.
Screw that.
Based on this thread, there seems to be enough general interest in a WoT setting game that maybe there's enough room for a pair of different flavors. At one time in the day there was like 3-4 WoT games in existence at once and all were doing relatively well (during high times of MU of course).
@bobgoblin said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
Based on this thread, there seems to be enough general interest in a WoT setting game that maybe there's enough room for a pair of different flavors. At one time in the day there was like 3-4 WoT games in existence at once and all were doing relatively well (during high times of MU of course).
I've said it before: it makes me sad when people think there can't be multiple games in an IP/genre.
@bobgoblin Nostalgia and fandom are both strong motivators, but that's all they are - a reason to walk through the door.
I will bet you any amount of internet dollars that unless the game itself is actually done well, despite of its setting, it will fare no better or worse than anything else.
But that's not the statement I'm making Ark. What I'm saying is there seems to be a divergence on the 'setting' of the theme. I don't see why the aspect of differing settings within the theme is adverse. Particularly if these two settings were working cooperatively. Provide a world set in the mainverse during Trolloc Wars and another world set in the post Dragon era.
@tempest Agree that Tar Valon should definitely be a main hub - no WoT game would really be complete without the White Tower.
Caemlyn would work pretty well for a hub, too, since there'd be the Black Tower in a timeline with Asha'man, nobles and royals for the L+L players, and also because Andor is the most "generic fantasy" of nations and easy to get into for new players. Though perhaps as a secondary hub, for sure.
A Cairhien hub would also be good if L+L players wanted a separate grid to play out complex intrigues rather than save the world or channel the One Power 
What I'd find cool is a strong metaplot detached from the book characters (whether they exist in the time period or not) to give the game direction and focus.
The cool thing about the WoT is that you can add pretty much so much and it wouldn't even seem out of place. You need an ancient evil? The same way Gholam were created by Aginor you can have other highly dangerous... things slumbering away in crypts waiting for a chance to wreak havoc. Politics are basically spelled out since cultural differences are so strong between nations in the books.
What about the mechanics? There was a WoT game published ages (heh) ago but I don't recall it having gotten great reviews even at the time, and there are so many different subsystems - channeling, forms, angreal, etc - that would probably need to be implemented basically from scratch.
@WildBaboons - I don't think spoilers tags are necessary for this thread.
If people are here to discuss the thematic planning of a WoT game, they should really be prepared for possible spoilers. 
Personally, I know what's gonna happen even if I haven't gotten that far yet (again). Cuz it's the internet and the books are more than a minute old.
@wildbaboons said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
The founding of the Asha'man? ... The cleansing?
I can guarantee that these two things would be attempted by players. The other things... less guaranteed, but you can bet that people will try to draw together a group of male channelers and would-be male channelers into a Tower, and you can bet that people will try to cleanse saidin (likely without anywhere near the preparation/power that it required in the books).
I would not want to have any character be ta'veren or be the Dragon Reborn otherwise you're just doing a find and replace on the FCs from the books and what's the point, plus the usual problems having a small group of PCs of grossly imbalanced importance on a game.
I think it would be entirely possible to have an NPC Dragon, especially if he was the withdrawn sort--or perhaps Cairhienin, and so liked to work through proxies. They would have to be doing something offscreen to keep them from interfering, but I think that it could certainly be done.
@tempest said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
WoT was never really the "prince played by Jensen Ackles is a badass swordsman" sort of thing. The badasses are the Warders and the scant few other blademasters around. And the "ladies" never really did much...unless they happened to also be Aes Sedai (and the princes who were badass went off to be warders).
Galad and Gawyn both become Blademasters (yes, they were trained to some degree by the White Tower, but they weren't there long, and were very, very skilled when they arrived). Gareth Bryne is one as well. Toram Riatin, Rodel Ituralde, High Lord Turak... just like in real life, those with the idle time are those who can practice. And I think that Caraline Damodred, Colavaere Saighan, Queen Tenobia, Queen Morgase, and Zarine Bashere would all quite disagree with your description of them never doing much.
I do, however, agree with you that it would be best to start in 1-2 centralized areas. I don't think I would go -quite- so far as requiring that everyone be part of the Tower, but if the two areas are, say, Tar Valon and Cairhien, you'll likely have things tied up relatively well, as opposed to if there are people in Cairhien, Bandar Eban, Ebou Dar, Tear, Tar Valon, and Caemlyn all looking for RP. I also think that it's a great idea for App Staff to work closely with new players to try to ensure that their characters have explicit hooks into whatever is going on at the moment.
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
What I'd find cool is a strong metaplot detached from the book characters (whether they exist in the time period or not) to give the game direction and focus.
Yes, yes, yes. I think that this is one of those games that really won't do well as a sandbox (it'll limp along, but won't have the same pull) -- fantasy games need metaplots in my opinion, to keep them from devolving into marriage simulators.
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
What about the mechanics?
This is another good point. I'd push Ares, but I think Faraday would smack me, and FS3 really, really isn't well-suited for channeling. You could limp along with it, but it wouldn't be good without a system written up to work alongside FS3. D20 WoT is miserable. Very poorly handled, in my opinion.
I didn't meant to imply that canon has to be followed.
I meant that.. with Asha'man for example, if people want to play them the black Tower needs to be founded and things setup a certain way otherwise you're not playing Asha'man, you're playing some other version of non-Aes Sedai male channelers. This isn't wrong, per se, but it's a variation from the original theme that may have been a draw and has other, further reaching cultural implications that the Asha'man represented.
It's nothing insurmountable, just takes some clever people and STing to blend into the setting
@seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
I think it would be entirely possible to have an NPC Dragon, especially if he was the withdrawn sort--or perhaps Cairhienin, and so liked to work through proxies. They would have to be doing something offscreen to keep them from interfering, but I think that it could certainly be done.
See, this has come up before and I've never liked it... for a simple reason.
Why?
If you have a Dragon as an active character then what difference does it make if it's Rand al'Thor or Bob? His very presence sets wheels in motion - which I'm not saying is a bad thing, by the way. But if you'd use Bob as staff to kick off the plot why not just do it with Rand, who's already known to your players?
Straying off the books should only be done for a fantastic reason, IMHO. The moment you do you alienate readers and you need to explain what happened - which is a price you are paying... so you have to think about what you are buying with it. It needs to be worth it.
I do, however, agree with you that it would be best to start in 1-2 centralized areas. I don't think I would go -quite- so far as requiring that everyone be part of the Tower, but if the two areas are, say, Tar Valon and Cairhien, you'll likely have things tied up relatively well.
Yeah, I agree. Tar Valon is almost a given, there's too much going on there to not use it as a nexus. And Cairhien or Caemlyn would work as well if you wanted a secondary one. I don't actually recall how far these places all are from each other but if it's not too big a stretch, or the setting allows for Gateways, then it'd be a no brainer.
plots in my opinion, to keep them from devolving into marriage simulators.
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):
What about the mechanics?
This is another good point. I'd push Ares, but I think Faraday would smack me, and FS3 really, really isn't well-suited for channeling. You could limp along with it, but it wouldn't be good without a system written up to work alongside FS3. D20 WoT is miserable. Very poorly handled, in my opinion.
I think this one might need to be done from scratch. It's too good to a system to half-ass it and just try to squeeze it more generic code written for something else... which will probably be the most time consuming part of creating a MUSH.
In my head I envision the game mostly set in one city, but with other places available (like tar valon). Cairhien or Caemlyn makes the most sense so people can be throne jostling.
Ares is attractive code wise solely because it's such a full package. Almost everything you need is There sans the actual rpg system... but it's also Ruby on Rails and that just doesn't interest me all that much.
Got to admit, I really wouldn't mind a game of Aes Sedai + Warders go out on adventures throughout the land. Could mix and magic combat and investigation type of storylines.
Tweaks to canon to allow certain things are generally well-received by players. Pern games have almost universally allowed women to ride dragon colors that the books (and Anne herself) specifically said they never ever could. I can probably count on one hand the number of times it was a sticking point in my entire 20-year tenure on Pern games.
If you want to allow Asha'man or even male Aes Sedai, you just tweak canon to make it happen. Maybe your opening plot-line is the cleansing of saidin, and you have players sitting down to figure out how to incorporate male Channelers into a society that's been female-dominated since the Breaking of the World. If that's not what interests you but male Channelers are on your must-have list, then have it all happen off-camera prior to opening.
If travel is a concern, you tweak canon so that something made the Ways passable between your PC areas. Or a cache of ter'angreal that allow people to Travel was discovered, and PCs can get their hands on them easily.
Basically: Don't let the canon confine your story. Take the parts of it that are cool and use them to make your game better, and ignore or change the parts that don't work well in a game. There will always be canon-cops that cry because that's not how the books depict something, but - as long as you spell out the changes you made to canon and are consistent - people will get over it if the game is worth it.
