The Hockey Thread

Ganymede

Terrible? No. I think he's altogether a better hockey player than Crosby, but Crosby doesn't have a problem with playoff slump and has led the Pens to cups. Was Ovie worth the $124m? His regulation stats are great and he's put butts in the seat, though his regulation stats are on a downward trend, as well.

Justin Williams gets paid extra money because he performs well in the playoffs. Why shouldn't Ovechkin get mo' money if he can play well in the regular season? If you don't play well in the regular season, no one gives a shit about your playoff abilities.

Ovechkin averages well over a point per game in the regular season (1,035 pts., 921 GMs). He has won countless awards. In the playoffs, his stats are different, but are still damned good (90 pts., 97 GMs). Backstrom is in the same general boat: about a point per game in the regular season, but only a slight drop in the playoffs.

Last season, Braden Holtby couldn't save them. The year before, yes, the scoring was suspect. But in previous years, the defense was permitting too many shots (over 400 in 2 series is awful).

Frankly, the Capitals simply aren't good enough. That's it. Crosby and Malkin look like the saviors, but it's really about Murray, Sheary, Rust, and all of the other lesser-known players that made the Penguins champs again (I mean, do you know Nick Bonino is?). Who does anyone know on the Capitals beyond Ovechkin and Backstrom?

In the end, I'm just a Coyotes fan who has been pulling their hair out at the decisions the GM/franchise are making, a lot of bad politics and drama, so I've adopted the Flyers as my Eastern conference team.

I can get behind this just fine. It's okay to love two teams in two different conferences. But the Flyers suck, they've always sucked, and they will continue to suck until their front office realizes: (1) their defense is terrible now; (2) their goaltenders blow; and (3) beyond Giroux's line, you can field a team of girl scouts with better success.

You know, the team I can watch while my Coyotes trade useful players like Dubnyk away.

Dubnyk was a back-up on Edmonton, and was a back-up to Mike Smith when he was with AZ, putting up a 9-5-2 record. That's not bad, but he posted an awful 2.72 GAA and pedestrian .916 save percentage.

Then he was traded to the Wild for a third-round pick, and became a star there. He is making $4.33M a season now, but still has a GAA around 2.30.

Meanwhile, AZ turned that pick into Brendan Warren, who ended up being traded with a fifth round 2018 draft pick to the Flyers for Nick Cousins and Merrick Madsen. As you should know, Cousins was one of the Flyers' centers last year, who put up 16 points in 60 games; not bad for a 24-year old. Madsen, meanwhile, put up a GAA of 2.11 and save percentage of .923 in 36 games with Harvard last year, and is only 22.

So, your mileage may vary. AZ has been in re-build mode for a couple of years. Now, they look like a threat for the playoffs, but the Western Conference is deep and painful.

Ghost

@Ganymede

Okay, okay, you make some really fine points and I will concede to you on the topic of Ovie. Collect your win.

On the topic of the Yotes, I've been avidly following them for years and have friends who have worked inside of the org. It was a mess when Gretzky/Tocchet were coaching, but that's a story for another time.

Az waited far, far too long tangled in Smitty's trade clauses, up to the point of sports psychologist visits. He was amazing in their franchise historic playoff run, but hasn't been the same since his concussion. At the time the decision was made to trade Dubnyk to the Wild, though, he was putting up far better numbers than Smitty.

The Yotes have been in a rebuilding slump and mired with an unstable ownership situation for over a decade. They've been trading players in the last year of their contracts right before the trade cutoff deadline with the assumption that if these playoff teams don't renew their contract they can get the players back. They did this multiple times with Hanzal, Vrbata, etc.

It's just a mess and I hope Domi and their new squad can get some decent work done, but with their arena, financial, and ownership situation in constant disarray they very well may still have problems hanging onto top talent (why play for AZ for X when Dallas offers you Y? Such was the case in a personal fave of mine: Vernon Fiddler).

Yotes are hockey team worth loving and I'm gonna miss Doan, but this back office stuff is just horrid.

Auspice

Watching a team try to build itself back up is always rough. You see a lot of it in the NFL, too.

Ghost

@Auspice The Coyotes drama is insane.

Gretzky and Moyes owned the Coyotes and tried to rush-sell the Coyotes to move the team to Ontario. So they tried to rush them into bankruptcy, but the NHL RACED to Phoenix to stop it all, because the NHL never agreed to the team's move.

For a while the Coyotes were owned by the NHL, which to date has been the best years of their franchise since the 96-99 roster (because WTF...Tkachuk, Roenick, Mike Gartner, Teppo, Tverdovsky, Khabibulin) and cut deeper into the playoffs than they ever did as a franchise (fmr. Winnipeg Jets).

But since the NHL found an ownership group it's been a mess. Glendale is diverting funds from road maintenance and teacher salaries to keep paying for the arena/team, there's been shady deals between the city of Glendale and ownership, and the Phoenix doesnt have a lot of passion for hockey or the Coyotes.

As a longtime supporter, I'm personally hoping Quebec City, Seattle, or any of these other hopeful cities make a decent bid and my Yotes move to a city/ownership situation that will take care of them. When that happens, I'll definitely be buying new hockey sweaters.

Ganymede

@Ghost said in The Hockey Thread:

It's just a mess and I hope Domi and their new squad can get some decent work done, * * *.

Uh. There's more than Domi. I mean, I like Max Domi as much as I liked Tie Domi (aka Me Idiot), but the Yotes are a lot better than that.

They have Ekman-Larsson, Goligoski, Hjalmarsson, Demers, Chychrun, and Schenn, not to mention Clendening and Connauton to fall back on. That's a pretty solid D-group.

You've got Strome, Domi, Cousins (now), and Derek Stepan down the center. Martinook, Dvorak, and Duclair are solid LWs, and Etem is a solid, young RW. And Antti Raatta looked good backing up King Henrik.

Don't give up hope on them.

I mean, they aren't the Flyers.

Ghost

@Ganymede said in The Hockey Thread:

I mean, they aren't the Flyers

Oh snap.

Yeah I'm not giving up hope on the players. They play their asses off and I have a lot of respect for them. I also think it was a bad call removing Dave Tippett as coach. The roster is a good roster, and now that their goalie situation is less chaotic they should have some movement. Duclair is solid. OEL is solid. They have some decent talent on the roster.

I think their keys to this season will be their need to adjust to a new coaching situation and whether or not the right decisions are made at key times in terms of roster decisions. All too often the Yotes bump up and down from the minors (to try new options) and lose players to waivers. They've got to be careful with that and not be afraid to give the backup goalie more starting time if the primary (such as Smutty with contract clauses) is in a slump.

HOWEVER, the Coyotes have a definite local problem. They're on the far corner of the Phoenix valley so ticket sales are tough, arena management is tough, lots of ownership rotation issues. If the Coyotes win, more ticket sales will help their financial situation, but you can't find Coyotes-branded mercy anywhere in town aside from mall stores that sell every team's jersies.

I hope they do well, I really do, but I'm somewhat a minority in my support for the team. A looooot of hockey fans in AZ usually only buy tickets when their teams are playing, such as my buddies from Buffalo only going when the Sabres are in town.

This really makes me love the players on the roster more, and feel great for them when theyre doing well, because for the most part theyre all playing in a hockey market that only notices them when they're on fire.

Aria

Dude, seriously, what's with the Flyers hate here? I'm not claiming they're the best team in the NHL. I'm claiming they're my team. And I love them.

As for their actual stats? Yeah. Their defensive line blows. It has pretty much always blown, at least since I moved here in 1999. Their goalies? Their goalies I will contest, because frankly, plenty of them have gone on to put up great numbers on other teams. Every harshes on the goalies, but if you look at the goals allowed versus shots on goal? Moooooost of them have been pretty decent.

The problem is that even the best goalie in the league is going to be giving up points sooner or later when your defensive line is about as useful as tits on a bull and letting EVERY GODDAMN THING through.

Rucket

@Aria I don't hate the Flyers. I just hate Philly. And Dallas. New York to a lesser extent. Sorry, but this is how it has to be in the NFC East. It just ends up bleeding into other sports.

Aria

@Rucket At least we can hate Dallas and New York together?

Rucket

@Aria said in The Hockey Thread:

@Rucket At least we can hate Dallas and New York together?

Absolutely!

Ganymede

@Rucket said in The Hockey Thread:

I don't hate the Flyers. I just hate Philly. And Dallas. New York to a lesser extent. Sorry, but this is how it has to be in the NFC East. It just ends up bleeding into other sports.

Look, stop projecting your loathing for your own team and just recognize that Dan Snyder will never put together a Super Bowl team ever, all right?

Rucket

@Ganymede said in The Hockey Thread:

@Rucket said in The Hockey Thread:

I don't hate the Flyers. I just hate Philly. And Dallas. New York to a lesser extent. Sorry, but this is how it has to be in the NFC East. It just ends up bleeding into other sports.

Look, stop projecting your loathing for your own team and just recognize that Dan Snyder will never put together a Super Bowl team ever, all right?

Look, this is Washington okay? We'll never win any championships because none of our teams can go deep into the playoffs. Caps? Oh let's have an amazing season and then get kicked out in the second round. Nats? Great season, first round exit. Skins? Haha. Wizards? Yeah we'll get that 8 seed and then get knocked out in the first round.

ThatGuyThere

@Rucket said in The Hockey Thread:

Wizards? Yeah we'll get that 8 seed and then get knocked out in the first round.

Sorry to break up a good rant but you do realize the Wizards are likely a third to fifth seed in the east and have make the second round three of the last four years, so they would place more with the Caps as being a solid second round knock out not a first.

Rucket

@ThatGuyThere said in The Hockey Thread:

@Rucket said in The Hockey Thread:

Wizards? Yeah we'll get that 8 seed and then get knocked out in the first round.

Sorry to break up a good rant but you do realize the Wizards are likely a third to fifth seed in the east and have make the second round three of the last four years, so they would place more with the Caps as being a solid second round knock out not a first.

Our town's moving on up!

Ghost

@Meg told me to ask @Roz why we are talking about non-hockey in a hockey thread.

Jesus, people, move this OtherSportsball talk to Random Bitching.

Meg

@Ghost You can't just blame everything on me, friend-o.

Ghost

@Meg I blame your being awesome on you all the time.

Darinelle

@Monogram Well if you don't want a local team and of the three that used to be local Detroit was your best option, but bleh Detroit, then you should clearly be a Tampa Bay Lightning fan, since Stevie Y was the best part of the Red Wings and is now the TBL GM.

Not that, being born and raised in TB like I was, I'm biased. Or anything.

Also the best part of not living where the team you love is based is that you can get the NHL package and there aren't blackout dates for any games except when they travel to play your home team (if you even have one near enough to matter). RAWK.

Ghost

@Darinelle I like the Bolts. Tampa also takes very good care of the bolts and loves them.

Darinelle

@Ghost

That's all about Phil Esposito, to be honest. He started the game in Tampa, a place where no one thought a team would work, and started with community outreach. The first couple of seasons we didn't win that much, but they were involved and part of the community. It's a culture that has continued on, and it's why we love our Bolts and they love us. Win or lose, they're our team and I hope that continues. The current ownership has spent some ridiculous amount of money rehabbing the area around the arena too, which I know is good for him in the long run but it's also great for the economy. The city doesn't have to pay for it either, it's just development from the owner and that's excellent all around.