@bronn I dunno that it's fair to say a circular forum argument is proof an entire community is bad at taking criticism. It's a forum argument, it would be more surprising if it wasn't circular. God save the poor soul who point outs everyone is just saying 'if you don't like it FINE but here am I arguing every point and you better drop it instead of retorting, WAIT YOU RETORTED, how dare' ad nauseam.
@oldfrightful We've been here before. I recognize that tree.
This thread reminds me of another game that got talked about here that i cannot, for the life of me, remember the name of.
I remember that apparently 'raping people' was just part of how the game went.
What? You didn't like being raped? Ugh you are so not a team player. Getting raped in the butt yer first night on grid is what we all went through, it's just part of the game, why cant you accept it? You dont like my edgy rape stalker guy? Ugh such a whiner.
This whole thread has been immensely entertaining at times and terribly hard to watch at others.
It's been a real roller-coaster ride.
@sunny said in Armageddon MUD:
Good show at being an unrepentant asshole.
Please don't resort to personal insults. This isn't the Hog Pit.
The argument has been new players are punished for mistakes and no they aren’t. If that’s the circular argument then yes it will continue to rage on, because the people that play now say it doesn’t happen.
The only way to find out is to actually play and make a mistake isn’t it? That would pretty much solve that debate. If this is truly about the game in its current state or “neener neener, I just want to see a spectacle” we’ll be able to find out that simply.
@wretched That was the RPI 'Haven'.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
@lithium That was it! Gracias.
@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
The argument has been new players are punished for mistakes and no they aren’t. If that’s the circular argument then yes it will continue to rage on, because the people that play now say it doesn’t happen.
This is not a circular argument. This is a simple argument with two sides.
That said, this is what is catching my eye and mind right now:
@evilcabbage said in Armageddon MUD:
despite what hedge would tell you, we "are" very welcoming to new players. the welcome might be an introduction to being mugged and murdered, or being abused, or being treated lower than low because you're a commoner and that's a templar, but you are being introduced to the world. (Emphasis added.)
Now, if I'm taking what you're saying at face value, that leads me to the conclusion that being mugged, murdered, abused, or treated poorly may occur, but not as a consequence of making an IC mistake.
Am I understanding this correctly?
Because, if so, I still don't know why most people would be interested in a gaming experience where they may, for not fault of their own, get killed or robbed when they hit the Grid.
Now, if this isn't the case, someone's lying. But if this is the case, then it's good to know that I may be drubbed like a rented whore if I play.
No, I didn't like Dark Souls.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
The argument has been new players are punished for mistakes and no they aren’t. If that’s the circular argument then yes it will continue to rage on, because the people that play now say it doesn’t happen.
Here's the actual issue though, this is one of the main arguments being repeated in the thread:
@evilcabbage said in Armageddon MUD:
you might call someone the wrong title - generally they'll correct you. it might be mean, the way they do it, but they will correct you
@kanye-qwest said in Armageddon MUD:
ok but why though
Like, that does not sound welcoming. None of what you said sounds welcoming to someone new to the game, except that someone might deign to answer ooc questions on an ooc discord.
You're not going to reconcile those two opinions. I definitely don't think someone being mean about a minor OOC mistake IC is a huge deal in a game like Armageddon, it is deliberately a drab and shitty setting where you need to roll with stuff like that to play it and enjoy it. If someone knows they don't want to deal with that kind of thing, it's way better they're aware of it than try the game, have a shitty experience 2 weeks in and leave. Better to just let it lie, you know? Neither side is really wrong (edit: whether or not the example is exaggerated and assumes there's a really shitty player involved).
@Lithium @Wretched inb4 @Pandora storms in, but Haven isn't an RPI at all and has never been one. It pretty readily embraces some OOC ideas you wouldn't find in an RPI like ye old SoI, Armageddon, Harshlands of yore, the very dead Parallel/Atonement. It's probably a dead MU sub-genre at this point unless Japheth ever finishes LabMUD's codebase.
@oldfrightful Right, but the thing is the issue isn’t whether a player will have a shitty time or not. The issue is, whether new players are allowed by other players are allowed to make an ooc mistake. So some former players are saying you can’t and current players are saying you can. That’s going to continue forever.
A shitty time is another topic entirely. That’s one the person that had a shitty time will always win because that’s how they feel. Can’t change that. Even then though, if the person can articulate what was shitty, it’s still valuable feedback.
I know I’d have a shitty time playing a WoD game so, I don’t play them. A player might say, I know I’ll have a shitty time playing Armageddon. That’s all well and good.
The reason this is different from that though, is there might be someone reading this thinking “Armageddon is a game where I wouldn’t be allowed to make a mistake”. Well that’s just not true.
I don't see any difference. Multiple people have said A, multiple people have said B, nobody is going to change their mind. You have done all you can to assuage the few people here who might try Arm. It's dumb to keep arguing about it.
I HAVE DONE THAT THING I MENTIONED EARLIER, though, so that's the last I'll post about it!
@oldfrightful It’s ok if you don’t. We agree though that it’s gone past the point of being ridiculous.
@kanye-qwest your face is wrong wanna argue about it for 8 pages?
What’s the context of the robbery, the beating or the murder? I say with certainty it wouldn’t be because you are new.
I could list a whole bunch of reasons why it could happen to you, but nobody’s going to say “Oh! New player let me rob them.” It just doesn’t happen.
Some one might say “Oh southsider in the ‘rinth! I’m going to rob them.” Two different things.
I don’t play Dark Souls myself. It’s just a game I understand you die a lot until you figure out what to do. I’m more of a Divinity: Original Sins II kind of girl. And what that means is, if you try to go outside you probably will die a lot.
@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
So some former players are saying you can’t and current players are saying you can.
ACTUALLY, what current players have been saying has been 'Well, it doesn't happen that new players are punished, but it can'. Which isn't the same as what you are saying here. And we caught that 'but' pretty hard.
#FreeFarfalla
okay, let me be very clear and blunt.
new players are punished just like old players, if they do something egregious like not bowing to a templar - and then proceeding to act very high and mighty.
however, when it is very clear that it is in fact a new player, the majority of the time that templar is going to help you understand what you did wrong. maybe you'll get punished - maybe it's a stern talking to, maybe a bit of jail time. but they aren't going to lop your tongue off, gouge your eyes out and shove spikes in your ears so you're blind, deaf, and dumb.
new players can be punished just like old players can be. i've met my own fair share of templar endings. the game is intentionally set in a harsh world, and if a templar is mean to someone - even a newbie - all they're doing is reinforcing the world that you're playing in. to help you integrate yourself into it.
@evilcabbage so now we're right back to where we began. OOC ignorance can equal IC consequences, which some of us just aren't into.
@bronn I dunno that it's fair to say a circular forum argument is proof an entire community is bad at taking criticism. It's a forum argument, it would be more surprising if it wasn't circular. God save the poor soul who point outs everyone is just saying 'if you don't like it FINE but here am I arguing every point and you better drop it instead of retorting, WAIT YOU RETORTED, how dare' ad nauseam.
