Stuff Done Right

[Arkandel]

I can't tell which of you guys is trolling the other the hardest.

[silentsophia]

@Silver Saying rape victims deserved it because of how they dressed IS wildly inappropriate at best. I mean, seriously. Not to be harsh (because I am crazypants, and I've been called a bitch, a terrible Rper, etc, etc), but dude. Just dude. You're not painting yourself well in this picture.

Something about a pox on both houses.

Oh well. I am gonna go back to cleaning. Freaking house needs to clean itself, I tell you what.

[Silver]

@silentsophia said:

@Silver Saying rape victims deserved it because of how they dressed IS wildly inappropriate at best.

You're are absolutely right!

[Roz]

It wasn't actually victim-blaming rape victims, it was using the common practice of victim-blaming rape victims as a comparison for someone saying that maybe if you're completely uninterested in helping games reduce their problems, you are part of the problem.

Which is also really inappropriate.

[Sunny]

@Roz said:

It wasn't actually victim-blaming rape victims, it was using the common practice of victim-blaming rape victims as a comparison for someone saying that maybe if you're completely uninterested in helping games reduce their problems, you are part of the problem.

Which is also really inappropriate.

Thanks Roz.

@Silver
Yep, I really think that victim-blaming rape victims has absolutely nothing to do with the unfindable flag and no place in this conversation.

@Arkandel
I don't troll. This is a VERY SERIOUS conversation. Very serious.Look -- rape victim blaming has come up. It doesn't get any more serious than that.

[silentsophia]

@Roz Yeah. The thing is, no one said he had to help the games solve their problems. At least, I didn't. I told him it was asinine to deliberately set people off, not report harassment to staff and keep complaining about it and that such an incredibly hostile view and way of treating people really doesn't accomplish much.

But hey, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit on the carebear side.

[Thisnameistaken]

This thread /is/ supposed to be about /good/ things. Perhaps we should take this discussion over to the hog pit?

[TNP]

@Misadventure said:

Could someone explain why its necessary to know at all times where or who other players are with, save to know where ones faction RP might be? Anything more directed at a specific character I would assume can be arranged via a quick page.

Edited to add "at all times" because @Templari pointed out the obvious sometimes use Thank you T). I am picking at the logic that Unfindable is always bad, or based on bad apple logic.

There's another reason not to have unfindable. If I log on as a guest to a new game and see no one on the grid? I log off. WHO is not advertising activity. +where does.

[Misadventure]

If you log on and A) all active players are set Unfindable and B) Unfindable means never contact me through any mean then Guest should leave, there is no one there interested in playing with them.

I think for myself, that +hangouts is a better measure of activity. I can see how many folks visit both truly public, and public to certain factions places. Beyond that, I could also see a game have NO way to know where people are to enhance the sense of exploration or mystery, for MUD-like games as well as intrigue based ones. It's not that OOC secrecy translates to IC security, it's that OOC mystery enhances OOC enjoyment.

[Miss Demeanor]

@TNP said:

@Misadventure said:

Could someone explain why its necessary to know at all times where or who other players are with, save to know where ones faction RP might be? Anything more directed at a specific character I would assume can be arranged via a quick page.

Edited to add "at all times" because @Templari pointed out the obvious sometimes use Thank you T). I am picking at the logic that Unfindable is always bad, or based on bad apple logic.

There's another reason not to have unfindable. If I log on as a guest to a new game and see no one on the grid? I log off. WHO is not advertising activity. +where does.

Given the number of people that will idle on a grid, I wouldn't call +where an accurate portrayal of activity.

Subject of Unfindable: While the following comparison would be more accurate if Unfindable could be applied to specific bits rather than blanket... here goes nothing!

I see the Unfindable flag acting as something like a restraining order. Person A is being harassed and/or stalked across a game by Person B. Yes, Person A -should- toss up a quick job about Person B's harassment. Get it on record, it may not be enough NOW, but with enough instances, action could be taken. THAT SAID. It is absolutely fine for someone to then ALSO set themselves Unfindable to avoid dealing with further harassment.

To use Sunny's example... lets say you call the cops cause someone came in and stole your stuff. Are you still going to leave your door unlocked afterwards? The police (staff, in this case) cannot/will not always take immediate action. So you're just going to leave your door unlocked for the same jackass to finish taking your stuff while you're waiting for the police to build their case?

[TNP]

@Misadventure said:

If you log on and A) all active players are set Unfindable and B) Unfindable means never contact me through any mean then Guest should leave, there is no one there interested in playing with them.

I have, in fact, been on a game where the majority of players were unfindable. Not recently but that could also be because I haven't played WoD till recently. All those players were in an Elysium or other sphere hangout, all of which were set unfindable. OOC Masq, you know. I don't know if that's still a thing.

[Misadventure]

To my jaded and demanding of others mindset, I would hope you spoke to a staff member, a player helper, etc. new players are a valuable, yet special case. You could look at hundreds of people on +where at TR, yet not be able to find RP.

[TNP]

I was a player actually. But back in my WoD days, unfindable sphere rooms were commonplace on most games. As we're all products of our experiences, it certainly factors into my dislike of the flag.

[Misadventure]

Well, to me, looking out at a bunch of players who I have no reason to be where they are (any non-public space) doesn't tell me much at all, save that folks do gather together, or they sit alone or idle. That's about all i think you can glean. The rest is +factions, channels for LFG or said factions, staff and staff helpers, and anyone I know who seems central or active. Like at TR I would bug Dash for Silver Ladder Stuff, I would bug the Pippy for Baby stuff, and I would bug October for TS then slut shame her on channels and via alts when she turned me down. Just checking to see if you read this far.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Sunny
To use your the cop analogy someone paging me about my whereabouts is the equivalent of making and illegal left turn, illegal yes but do you call the cops every time you see it happen?
If a person did it enough it became harassment, or to further the analogy making an illegal left and causing a wreck, then yes I would call.
MUSH staff like police can't handle every thing nor is every violation of policy equally in need of stomping on. So I would rather have staff deal with bigger issues and let me set a flag that takes care of the smaller.

[TNP]

@Misadventure said:

Well, to me, looking out at a bunch of players who I have no reason to be where they are (any non-public space) doesn't tell me much at all, save that folks do gather together, or they sit alone or idle. That's about all i think you can glean.

If you leave it at that. When I"m a guest, I always check where. If someone is alone in an IC room, they're idle. It there's more than one, I check WHO for idle times to see if there's implied RP going on. This depends on game size of course. It might not be conclusive but it definitely helps to form an initial impression when taken along with other things.

[Ganymede]

I've been gaming as long as TNP.

I never understood why people wanted the Unfindable flag unless they wanted to hide from a player that was harassing them. And if that's the case, the proper method to address this is to go staff. And if they don't do shit, you're playing on the wrong game.

[Rook]

I never understood why a simple +IGNORE-like command made you unfindable to people whom you don't want stalking you. Maybe another level could hide you from simple WHO, +WHO, +WHERE, +HANGOUTS when they run them.

Hmm. Something to ponder through.

[Sponge]

@Rook said:

I never understood why a simple +IGNORE-like command made you unfindable to people whom you don't want stalking you. Maybe another level could hide you from simple WHO, +WHO, +WHERE, +HANGOUTS when they run them.

Hmm. Something to ponder through.

It forces them to stalk you on their alts.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said:

I've been gaming as long as TNP.

I never understood why people wanted the Unfindable flag unless they wanted to hide from a player that was harassing them. And if that's the case, the proper method to address this is to go staff. And if they don't do shit, you're playing on the wrong game.

I've been gaming as long as both of you, and I can see reason why. I provided an example. I figure disabling all uses of Unfindable just isn't worth the headache.

@Rook said:

I never understood why a simple +IGNORE-like command made you unfindable to people whom you don't want stalking you. Maybe another level could hide you from simple WHO, +WHO, +WHERE, +HANGOUTS when they run them.

I'm with Ganymede (and thus kind of with Sponge) on this one: Working with issues that interfere with the facilitation of your enjoyment of the game is Staff's duty. It certainly isn't code's. Code makes for a very poor social control system. It can be done, but only when done right.