Historical MUSHes
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@Saulot said in Historical MUSHes:
@Seraphim73 I know I sound like a pessimist, but I don't think there is a happy medium. You gotta accept that you can't please both audiences, and will have to cater to one. I may be wrong since I haven't been mushing for long, and there may have been games that have accomplished it.
I don't disagree. I think you have to pick somewhere on the spectrum (probably like 2/3 to 3/4 of the way in one direction or the other would be my guess) and then be very, very, very clear in the Mission Statement/Welcome where you're setting the game. For The Eight Sea (thanks @tek), for instance, we specifically said "We are playing a Hollywood version of history, with similarly Hollywood interpretations of real-world religions and myths" on the front page.
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@Seraphim73 said in Historical MUSHes:
@Saulot said in Historical MUSHes:
@Seraphim73 I know I sound like a pessimist, but I don't think there is a happy medium. You gotta accept that you can't please both audiences, and will have to cater to one. I may be wrong since I haven't been mushing for long, and there may have been games that have accomplished it.
I don't disagree. I think you have to pick somewhere on the spectrum (probably like 2/3 to 3/4 of the way in one direction or the other would be my guess) and then be very, very, very clear in the Mission Statement/Welcome where you're setting the game. For The Eight Sea (thanks @tek), for instance, we specifically said "We are playing a Hollywood version of history, with similarly Hollywood interpretations of real-world religions and myths" on the front page.
As someone that gets 1-part-angry, 3-parts-sad when I see possibly-unintentional caricatures of 'historically-accurate' black people, this whole Hollywood-interpretations caveat thing has me readying the headache tablets and metaphorical Kleenex in preparation for a shit-show.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
And if everyone could stop assuming all Russians say "comrade" every other word, that'd be great...
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Being one who would be up for RP in a decent historical place and who agrees it needs to not be accurate so much as hollywood, figured I'd throw in a few comments too. And definitely more Hollywood, I can't imagine stumbling across a log and reading a kiss while my mind fathoms halitosis and general dental hygiene of whatever era is being played (A got a bit of something from that kiss, must be a chewing stick you had before kissing me, how considerate of you .... alas, I did not have a chewing stick, my third molar is chipped from all the stone mill gravel in the bread, its either tooth or gravel).
I don't think too many places have claimed historically accuracy or authenticity, but as we can see here, historically accurate was applied as going along with historical setting, fairly early in the responses. Its a fare response to say its not advisable, but its also assumed a lot regardless of intent.
The comment about disliking the channel debate on accuracy is one I agree with, even if you say historical Hollywood interpretive fantasy, there is going to be disagreements on which is more accurate for theme and someone will always take the high horse of having to be historically accurate despite theme saying it isn't. Someone may even ask about obscure history that wasn't considered by staff and by the time they come back after finding what suits theme, a debate could be in full swing on a channel about what should be done by staff related to the question.
That said, I'm more concerned with the points brought up by @Pandora and @Tinuviel. The theme/staff could have addressed RED historical versus what the game is after relating to racial and ethnic portrayals, but regardless, there is going to be RED portrayals with wild interpretations (ie over the top stereotypes and/or gross misinterpretation). As the one that brought up the idea of an early stages Reconquista-Era joint at one point, it was apparent it would be impossible to diverge from RED. If the game tried to reduce the concept, it wasn't accurate enough, and even if it did, player pre-conceived concepts would dominate enough it would come up, most likely in some offensive manner. That and staff would be utterly busy trying to say, that's not our theme, over and over again.
Another note from me, and probably only me, I'd also be more worried that picking any era would be a rush for folks to get PBs/character inspiration from their favorite historical drama. Like as much as I enjoyed Jeremy Irons in The Borgias, I don't know if I want to see him used to play out an incestuous manipulative sort on a game (cause I watched the series, I want to be surprised, not replay an open book). I'd rather see something new to historical genre than something played out a few times; but I think its similar to the comic debate where people would rather see a Gotham re-envisioned due to familiarity rather than an original theme dark city comic game.
Like I've been enjoying Turkish historical drama ever since Magnificent Century made its way to Netflix, but shudder at the idea for something to play out magnificently in a historical setting (see Reconquista above), it would turn into some crusade era religious war concept where being group (race/ethnic/religion) x is somehow synonymous with must hate group y.
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You know what would be cool? Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. Seriously. Regency era manners + the walking undead.
"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains.”
"If you stand for nothing Burr, what will you fall for?"
-- Hamilton: An American Musical -
@Cupcake This sounds so awesome. I want this. SOMEONE MAKE THIS HAPPEN
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Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter, a few years later than Pride and Prejudice, but the genre is there. I never watched the movie though.
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@cupcake I believe that Good Society a Jane Austen roleplaying game with its expansions on magic and swordplay could form a basis for that setting.
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Journal entries for that game would be amaaaaaazing
June 16 1787 Saturday
But a fornight has passed since I last had tea with Lieutenant James Hargrowe. A tall man of broad shoulder and presence, I miss him dearly. He is off to fight the undead menace, leaving me to the vastly important task of preparing poultices for those unfortunately wounded...
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June 24th, 1787.
I can hardly think of my Lieutenant James Hargrowe. Having been bitten by patient Zachary Walker but past noon this last day, my mind seems unable to focus on the others under my care even.
June 25 .. 17~`
I am ... quarantine. Hard ... to focus. Sometimes .. it feels like a fire .. spreads. Must rest, write more later
I'm just a surge protector doing my job, sir.
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@Lotherio YAAAAS.
Make this happen, people, and post the wiki site. I won't be playing, but I will nerd out on your journals.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
I would love to see a historical MUSH set in a non-American/European setting. My fantasy is to create a game set in 1930s Shanghai (an incredible multi-national destination filled with intrigue! Spies! And great fashion!), but I lack the coding skills, and probably the patience...
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@Goldfish That being said, Horror isn't exactly the most historically accurate game out there and I don't think they particular care if it is.
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@egg said in Historical MUSHes:
I would love to see a historical MUSH set in a non-American/European setting. My fantasy is to create a game set in 1930s Shanghai (an incredible multi-national destination filled with intrigue! Spies! And great fashion!), but I lack the coding skills, and probably the patience...
I'm an Egyptologist, and if I had the time and skills, part of me would love to run an ancient Egypt themed game.
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@egg It's definitely a lot more tolerant than real history in terms of game play, which is a good thing.
It doesn't attempt to rewrite it, though, or pretend the horrible shit wasn't real, or a fact of life in some respects.
This is because the players are not assholes. It's really that simple.
My PB is Not A White Girl. This has been relevant in some way or another in every story she's been part of -- even the one set in the future.
In the modern day, she was 'the mixed kid'. Not fully fitting in was relevant and formative for the character. Knowing that if the shit hit the fan in various respects, the 'sameness' wasn't going to be as relevant as 'the otherness' was also relevant. The rich white kids were likely to treat her like 'the help' as someone not white (this did not come up IC, but it was relevant to the character), and the native island population wasn't going to see her as an ally against the white invasion as she was part white, so she may as well be all white.
In the future setting, she was a hospitality robot designed specifically to have a mix of various ethnic features in an ambiguous blend to have similarities to as many potential people as possible as a commonality to set them more at ease.
In the old west (1902), she was a hot mess of everything the white population disdained (single woman well past marriageable age still unmarried, mixed race, born out of wedlock, actual witch, possibly a lesbian so far as the town knew) and she was very aware of how precarious her position was. This absolutely did come up IC, and not in a way that involved anyone treating her like garbage. She was addressed by the sheriff at one point, and promptly freaked out before realizing he was asking for her help. She ended up deputized eventually -- but it was never lost on her for a hot second that she would not normally be on the comfortable side of the bars based on the typical prejudices of the era alone.
...and so on.
I wouldn't blame someone for not wanting to be mindful of these things in the course of play, or wanting to play in a space in which they don't matter. I do take issue with the insistence that creating a space in which someone can do this means someone is *ist.
Again, this comes down to a basic reality of the players are not assholes more than anything to do with realism or historical accuracy. There have been a few instances of people going places other players found uncomfortable -- not in terms of 'someone treated my character in a *ist way', but in the 'this portrayal is kinda fucked up' sense some people have described -- but a tap on the shoulder about it seemingly resolved this rapidly, since... yet again, it all comes back to the players aren't assholes. (And that had nothing to do with historical accuracy or the lack thereof.)
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I do not have mental fortitude to run a game, but if anyone decides that a PPZ themed game is something they'd be willing to run, I would be happy to help world build, write newsfiles, help develop plot, etc.
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@Ghost said in Historical MUSHes:
Make this happen, people, and post the wiki site. I won't be playing, but I will nerd out on your journals.
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@surreality , preach!
I've always felt strange in Historical settings playing a male. In Horror's case, he's a white male. In contrast, I am not a white male. I knew a great many growing up. Had many good friends and dated one for a decade. It's those people I draw from. I always feel like I'm doing the period a disservice of I don't, at least, faintly gloss over a social matter. I won't shoehorn something I preplanned. It's more like, "Oh, hey! This is a spot to highlight something problematic." Keeps me in the headspace, I think. Helps form the voice and inform the character.
That said, on Horror, we make no issue of it. It's not a A Very Special MU. We are just slightly more woke. I have had OOC discussions about race and the historical context of the story and lemme tell ya. We are civil AF.
ETA: On Horror, my PC has a lingering trait of being disabled in some way. It's a long story. But my point is I feel super comfortable playing with that idea over there and have had a great time researching these things in a historical context.
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I think I am just going to have to agree to disagree with y'all about Horror. And that's fine. This isn't the Hog Pit.
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@egg Well, I mean, you're welcome to think it is just a bag of assholes, obviously, but I think it would be ridiculous to say that staff allows what I've described because of an inherent desire to be sexist/racist/ableist/homophobic/etc. RL.
Oh fucking well.
