Game of Thrones

Roz · May 16, 2019, 5:25 PM

@Steven-Universe said in Game of Thrones:

@Thenomain said in Game of Thrones:

This was posted by @Tat on the Ares Discord, and I think it's a strong, good, nuanced outsider non-spoiler breakdown of this season of Game of Thrones.

https://twitter.com/dsilvermint/status/1125856091261136896?s=21

Or: D&D plots, GRRM pants.

While the points are all good, I feel like that's an abuse of Twitter. I blame Trump for making it cool to post giant stories on Twitter.

That was an evolution of Twitter entirely independent of Trump. It's been common for years.

Rinel · May 16, 2019, 5:58 PM

@Lotherio That's fine. Then I judge them for being complete garbage at writing stories.

Warma Sheen · May 16, 2019, 7:04 PM

@Arkandel said in Game of Thrones:

@Lotherio Let's not be too judgy guys. I can see how producers might be burned out after working on the same project for eight years. They probably rushed some things to wrap up this massive beast with so many characters and plotlines, but to their defense they also always expected Martin to have written the books by now, too.

That's not a good defense for rushing an end, though. The producers were honest about being given several more seasons if they wanted it. They didn't. If you know you don't have the core of what made the show good in the first place, why rush through to an end if you really care? And didn't they skip a whole year before the final season?

Nah. No excuses. Be judgy!

Arkandel · May 16, 2019, 7:18 PM

@Warma-Sheen said in Game of Thrones:

That's not a good defense for rushing an end, though. The producers were honest about being given several more seasons if they wanted it. They didn't. If you know you don't have the core of what made the show good in the first place, why rush through to an end if you really care? And didn't they skip a whole year before the final season?

Sure, but that doesn't impact how a different series ran by D&D will turn out. They were spectacular for the first, say, six seasons and parts of season 7 were still pretty brilliant. Even this season they are showing flashes of brilliance (IMHO, of course) in terms of dialogue and, of course, the production values they've instilled - you can spend a ton of money and not get anywhere near the level of the episodes' amazing photography and extraordinary soundtrack, for example.

I also wish they had ran it for at least one more season. But if they give me years of superb Star Wars and then they don't deliver at that same level near the end... so be it. I can more than live with it, I can look forward to it.

Lisse24 · May 16, 2019, 7:54 PM

@Rinel said in Game of Thrones:

Like hell. They're bored and they want to move on. I don't judge them for that. What I judge them for is not giving the series over to people who still give a shit.

I do. Knowing when to pass a project off into other hands is an essential leadership skill. Okay, so they're bored/burned out/whatever. Then give the end of the season to someone who's as passionate about wrapping it up well as they were during the first season.

Three-Eyed Crow · May 16, 2019, 7:55 PM

My own take on Benioff and Weiss at this point is they are very good adapters of existing material (which is actually pretty difficult as the many creaky book-to-movie adaptations demonstrate, I think it'sa unique skill) but kinda eh writers when they don't have a road to follow anymore. Maybe they'll do better with something that's entirely their own from the beginning (there are MANY reasons why Game of Thrones in the past couple years presented unique challenges you aren't going to run into elsewhere) but I can't say I'm terribly interested in what they do after this, unless it's maybe an adaptation of...a book that's actually finished.

Warma Sheen · May 16, 2019, 8:07 PM

@Arkandel I disagree actually. I think in a different series that they've controlled the entire time, you get a different result. Or at least a more predictable one. What we see now is basically very well-financed fan fiction, and as many people are seeing, it shows.

And I've also loved seeing the many seasons that were good, so not saying they suck completely. But the end hasn't been worthy of the journey, imo. Whatever they do next, if it is their own, I think will be better because it is their own from start to finish... and because of this experience. I'm certain the current reactions will not be lost on them.

Arkandel · May 16, 2019, 8:07 PM

@Lisse24 said in Game of Thrones:

@Rinel said in Game of Thrones:

Like hell. They're bored and they want to move on. I don't judge them for that. What I judge them for is not giving the series over to people who still give a shit.

I do. Knowing when to pass a project off into other hands is an essential leadership skill. Okay, so they're bored/burned out/whatever. Then give the end of the season to someone who's as passionate about wrapping it up well as they were during the first season.

You know what though? I don't want to speak for anyone else but if they had passed it on to another group who'd treat it as the cash cow it could very, very easily be turned into and run the series into the ground... there would be complaints about that, too.

There comes a point people need to make a call because you can't please everyone. The producers here made theirs, and sure enough they did not please everyone.

Lotherio · May 16, 2019, 8:20 PM

I think in other parts, fans of the books overlooked skipped bits from the first six-seven seasons because they could add some visuals to the collection from reading (or add visuals period for those that don't conceptually visualize from reading) and a hope the end story would make since and/or tie up loose theories (or support the crazy ones some fans developed over the years). So part of the ending 'disappointment' is from seeming like the skipping of certain elements* and wondering how it play out and if cutting it would be better, wrap things up cleaner or not.

-more on the Reed family, Bloodraven-greenseer in the roots that passes the torch to bran and former Nights Watch another Targaryen, Lady Snow the zombie, the Nameria Wolf Pack ravaging the south, some of the Arya story, the journey of Sam to Oldtown, Victarion Greyjoy and the other red priest Moqorro, Aegon/Faux Aegon (pretending to be or is the legitimate son of Rheager and whats her name Martell), more of the Dornish families and Highgarden families, and others I'm forgetting in writing this.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the series and having watched it, but its not the books and maybe some of the disappointment is in wondering if GRRM will make it to get more books out, let along complete the series he envisioned. - or wondering what we're really missing and what the answers to nagging questions will be retained from missed plotlines from the books?

I'll still watch D&D Star Wars (not sarcastic, insert honest smiley thing here that doesn't offend anyone).

Lotherio · May 16, 2019, 8:27 PM

Double ... For what its worth, I'm feeling over the abundance of comic genre and zombie genre and supernatural genre stuff on TV, if this heralds in a few more fantasy series in the end. Then I'm grateful they got in the dragon stuff and some of the magic and the general populace has taken to it in droves, could get a few more things out there I'd like to see in TV series format.

BetterNow · May 17, 2019, 12:15 AM

@Warma-Sheen I'd imagine even if the producers were up to a few more seasons, the actors are not. They've been chained to long contracts for this show which has greatly limited their ability to branch out to other things. Eight years on a show of this magnitude, with this much effort put into it with travel and such, is exhausting and add to it all the advertisement stuff they have to do, their lives get consumed by it.

Arkandel · May 17, 2019, 12:20 AM

@Lotherio said in Game of Thrones:

Double ... For what its worth, I'm feeling over the abundance of comic genre and zombie genre and supernatural genre stuff on TV, if this heralds in a few more fantasy series in the end. Then I'm grateful they got in the dragon stuff and some of the magic and the general populace has taken to it in droves, could get a few more things out there I'd like to see in TV series format.

What worries me is this kind of stuff costs a lot of money and sooner or later there will be a bust. Probably sooner.

If you produce the next Vampire Diaries drama and it doesn't go well it's not a big deal because the fake fangs and colored contacts prosthetics aren't a big deal. Sink million dollars per episode into a Wheel of Time adaptation that doesn't work and suddenly the producers' narrative will shift wildly into 'oh, the public is tired of fantasy, let's go back to cop show procedurals'.

insomniac7809 · May 17, 2019, 1:27 AM

i just want a First Law adaptation is that so much to ask

Testament · May 17, 2019, 12:33 AM

@insomniac7809

Right there with you.

I still can't decide if I hate all the main characters or like them. For all my hand-wringing on it, it's as if one day Joe Abercrombie decided 'hey, what if I wrote a book series about really horrible people with only the slightest hint of likability'

Except Three-Trees. He's the best.

insomniac7809 · May 17, 2019, 12:41 AM

@Testament said in Game of Thrones:

@insomniac7809

Right there with you.

I still can't decide if I hate all the main characters or like them. For all my hand-wringing on it, it's as if one day Joe Abercrombie decided 'hey, what if I wrote a book series about really horrible people with only the slightest hint of likability'

Except Three-Trees. He's the best.

There was an AMA where someone asked Abercrombie "why are all of your characters horrible people with no redeeming features?" He answered "I think of my characters as horrible people with many redeeming features."

GangOfDolls · May 17, 2019, 12:46 AM

@Arkandel said in Game of Thrones:

@Lotherio said in Game of Thrones:

Double ... For what its worth, I'm feeling over the abundance of comic genre and zombie genre and supernatural genre stuff on TV, if this heralds in a few more fantasy series in the end. Then I'm grateful they got in the dragon stuff and some of the magic and the general populace has taken to it in droves, could get a few more things out there I'd like to see in TV series format.

What worries me is this kind of stuff costs a lot of money and sooner or later there will be a bust. Probably sooner.

If you produce the next Vampire Diaries drama and it doesn't go well it's not a big deal because the fake fangs and colored contacts prosthetics aren't a big deal. Sink million dollars per episode into a Wheel of Time adaptation that doesn't work and suddenly the producers' narrative will shift wildly into 'oh, the public is tired of fantasy, let's go back to cop show procedurals'.

This is more or less what happened with Chronicles of Shannara on MTV. It wasn't all that good, MTV didn't know what to do with it, and then cancelled it after dumping a bunch of money into a show on a network that's audience wants to watch 'reality' shows featuring reasonably attractive people making terrible romantic decisions.

Sparks · May 17, 2019, 1:27 AM

@insomniac7809 said in Game of Thrones:

i just want a First Law adaptation is that so much to ask

Unfortunately, the answer is apparently 'yes'.

Testament · May 17, 2019, 1:41 AM

@Sparks said in Game of Thrones:

@insomniac7809 said in Game of Thrones:

i just want a First Law adaptation is that so much to ask

Unfortunately, the answer is apparently 'yes'.

Joke on HBO, because if they still want to keep mining the GoT goldmine with viewership, putting the First Law trilogy onto tv would be exactly how to do it.

Rinel · May 17, 2019, 2:58 AM

Modern fantasy is actually quite popular. Sabrina is getting rave reviews on Netflix, and The Magicians seems to be doing well (though boy oh boy did they shake things up at the end of the last season). People aren't too happy with American Gods, though (personally, I love it, but my taste in shows is terrible), and I can't imagine that the Lakeside arc will make people any happier.

I think the lodestar for whether epic fantasy will continue on TV in a big way is going to be Amazon's LotR project. Whatever it is. The maps show Númenórë, so it's gonna be Second Age. If it does well, then I think things will improve.

Coin · May 17, 2019, 11:49 AM

@GangOfDolls said in Game of Thrones:

@Arkandel said in Game of Thrones:

@Lotherio said in Game of Thrones:
This is more or less what happened with Chronicles of Shannara on MTV. It wasn't all that good, MTV didn't know what to do with it, and then cancelled it after dumping a bunch of money into a show on a network that's audience wants to watch 'reality' shows featuring reasonably attractive people making terrible romantic decisions.

Iiiiiish.

Teen Wolf ran for seven seasons, so I don't think it's fair to say that the network's audience was a problem. Shannara just didn't capture the attention the same way. I mean, I enjoyed it, but I like terrible stuff as much as really good stuff.