The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves)
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@Auspice Was worth a shot. I hope you find something that works!
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@surreality I think that it is not uncommon for responses like that to linger into adulthood, especially when there is trauma or family dynamics stuff involved.
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@mietze Oh, were there ever.
One of the things that is quite heartening now is the level of involvement common with the parents and any therapists, counselors, or psychiatrists working with the kids in question.
This was not how it worked when I was younger, when it was more 'kid gets dropped off at professional's office to have the problems the parents descibe fixed'.
...the problems with the old way are incredibly obvious, and yet.
I eventually lucked out. The psychologist I was seeing had seen my mother for years. As a result, she knew she wasn't getting the whole story from my parents. It made such a world of difference; I probably wouldn't have survived though high school without her. No one else had ever even considered -- in almost ten years -- that my folks might have serious issues they were not disclosing because in their minds, I was the problem for not conforming to their world view.
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
One of the things that is quite heartening now is the level of involvement common with the parents and any therapists, counselors, or psychiatrists working with the kids in question.
teachers, too.
I say this because part of my cert training has involved being educated about ODD (and the other disorders, illnesses, traumas, etc., that can affect a child and their learning). -
First session with new therapist today. We discussed poss. triggers for these major ADHD episodes where my function breaks down.
She asked if I had them before the trauma event (surgery) for my PTSD. I... did not. And I'd never even considered if that could've been a, y'know, thing.
But apparently, sometimes, ADHD can be tied to that kind of thing as part of that uh, flight/anxiety mode? so I guess it's time for 'let's delve into fixing Auspice's trauma'
yaaaaaaaaaay /s
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Auspice I hear ya. I had a similar discussion with my therapist this month. I started this month just over-emotional and off. I had no reason to be, but I was. I couldn't focus, had feelings of dread and doubt, and just was in general a mess.
Turns out this is also the 1-year anniversary of my mother's passing (tomorrow actually) and we think subconsciously it was affecting me more than I thought it was.
But even pinpointing that might be the cause, I still can't focus worth a damn this month. I'm less weepy but so damned scatterbrained.
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@Alamias said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
@Auspice I hear ya. I had a similar discussion with my therapist this month. I started this month just over-emotional and off. I had no reason to be, but I was. I couldn't focus, had feelings of dread and doubt, and just was in general a mess.
Turns out this is also the 1-year anniversary of my mother's passing (tomorrow actually) and we think subconsciously it was affecting me more than I thought it was.
But even pinpointing that might be the cause, I still can't focus worth a damn this month. I'm less weepy but so damned scatterbrained.
Yeah, I mean. It doesn't FIX it (not that I expect it would), but it did cause a 'huh' moment.
I do like her. She's not a 'let's just talk about it' and she's also not a 'here's some random methods to try!' person.
She likes looking into the neuroscience behind things and what your body is trying to tell you through it's behaviors and considering how I function and operate I'm like okay yes this I can do.
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Dear Brain, Yes I know that the drink /was/ cold when you put it down on your desk. It was frosty and glistening with condensation, I know, i was there. But that was YESTERDAY. So why on earth did you expect it to be cold when you opened it today, and are now disappointed that it wasn't. Sincerely, Also the Brain.
Anyone else know that the world doesn't stop, and yet you think the moment you take your eyes off of something or someone its as if it/they in some state of suspended animation? Like, 'Hi I havent talked to you in 14 years, what? you've changed? That's strange!' I can pick up conversations from people in text from 2 years ago.
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I thought this weekend that maybe this ADHD 'hyper' episode was coming to an end. I didn't feel as.... bad. Bad, but not as bad. I was eating a bit better. I was handling stuff like personal hygiene (ha ha) a bit more. I made it out of the house to a social engagement.
Today at work I feel like my brain is on fire.
I can't focus on other people talking.
I sit down to type out emails or even handle my to-do list and I just......... spazz. I can't even finish thoughts.
I forget where I was even going with this.
I wanna go to a corner and cry.
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With the advent of cheap waterproof electronic watches/fitness things... I actually retain a watch for almost a whole year now before it is destroyed.
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@Auspice @Rinel My own experience with ADD is just that, my own experience. I certainly never told anyone else what to think about the matter. It was just me expressing my beliefs, largely based on my own experience. I thought that was clear without needing a full legal disclaimer and a scientifically cited research paper.
How I adjusted is just my case. I never presented an option to cure the world, just a technique that was helpful for me that I think could be more useful for a lot of others. As far as I can tell this isn't a thread about one person in particular. I'm not sure why my post seemed to be taken as a direct attack on anyone.
Everyone else who posted about their beliefs and experiences seemed to be treated rather respectfully, even when they varied in experience. So it was a pretty shitty feeling that I didn't get the same, tbh. I'd love to say whatever, but it bothered me.
It was suggested to me that because I didn't state in my post that I had been diagnosed with ADD that you assumed I did not and that is why my opinion was so easily dismissed, but I think that's a cop out. You don't have to have ADD to have an opinion about it. It doesn't just affect the person that has it, it affects everyone that they come into contact with, especially those they care about. Neither of my parents were diagnosed with it, but they both have very strong opinions of it. Those opinions served me very well, btw.
@faraday I certainly didn't tell anyone that ADD is a big pharma conspiracy. Yes, that would be nonsense, which is why I did not say that. I did suggest that very recent events have proven that big pharma cannot be trusted not to put people above profits. Having doctors push diagnoses and prescriptions on patients that may not need them or would be better served by other courses of treatment is their main play. That's not just my personal opinion, but the fact and finding of the multiple trials that have been decided by juries and judges earlier this year. As ADD diagnoses are being given out in steadily greater numbers every year, it is not nonsense to be skeptical that maybe not everyone diagnosed with ADD/ADHD actually has it. Some definitely do. Some likely do not. The same can be said of the number and dosages prescribed. There may be better ways. But 'big pharma' has been known to sweep better courses of treatment for all kinds of conditions under the rug if they are less profitable. It isn't insane to think there might be a better way to address ADD than pumping people with aderall and ritalin, since the same people best suited to find that way are the same people that have proven untrustworthy of ethical standards.
Anyway... That's been bothering me for a few days now. And it took about 6 hours to write this post to keep it as positive as possible. But what that means to me probably doesn't mean the same to other people.
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@Warma-Sheen said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
I'm not sure why my post seemed to be taken as a direct attack on anyone.
There is a pervasive problem in this country (world?) of people challenging the validity of mental health diagnoses. Patients struggle to get doctors/family/friends/society to recognize that their problems aren't just all in their head. That they can't just snap themselves out of it without treatment (in the form of therapy and/or medication). That their diagnoses are legitimate.
Coming onto a forum about ADD talking about how "pumping people with aderall and ritalin" is bad, doctors are unethical, big pharma can't be trusted, some people with diagnoses "likely don't have it", etc. is not just unhelpful, it's harmful. This is not a matter of 'everyone's entitled to their opinions'; it's contributing to the stigma around mental health and that's a bad thing.
Nobody is saying that medication is the only answer, or even the best answer for everyone. There are all kinds of behavioral therapies available. Talking about your experience with them would be helpful. Likening ADHD treatment to lobotomies is not.
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@faraday said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
Likening ADHD treatment to lobotomies is not.
this.
I had just explained how I can't function in day-to-day life anymore. How I'm afraid I'm going to lose what is, in truth, my dream job. I can't even focus on the things I love (hobbies). I'm lucky to take care of myself.
and the first reply I got felt like the equivalent of people who go 'people who take medication are stupid! just go for a walk!' to people with depression.
I've spent years multi-tasking non-stop. it has been my only and primary coping method. Just go go go go go go go go go go go all the time because my brain was go go go go go go go go all the time, but it doesn't work anymore. Everything has crumbled around me and I can't function anymore and I came to the one place I thought people understood and the reply I got was 'fuck doctors, drugs are bad, just speed everything up' which was...... what I used to do
so I felt like I was being told I'm just too broken and a failure
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@Auspice said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
@faraday said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
Likening ADHD treatment to lobotomies is not.
this.
Except no one did 'this'. 'This' was faulty conclusion jumped to for the purpose of arguing a point that no one was making.
I wasn't likening ADHD treatment to lobotomies. It was just one example of when the scientific and medical community accepted treatment for a condition(s) that was just wrong. An example that science/doctors don't always get things right and other educated professionals others still will go along with it.
@faraday said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
Coming onto a forum about ADD talking about how "pumping people with aderall and ritalin" is bad, doctors are unethical, big pharma can't be trusted, some people with diagnoses "likely don't have it", etc. is not just unhelpful, it's harmful. This is not a matter of 'everyone's entitled to their opinions'; it's contributing to the stigma around mental health and that's a bad thing.
So if I understand you correctly, it isn't the fact that these things exist that are the problem. It is me bringing them up that is contributing to the stigma around mental health?
I don't get to have an opinion and people aren't allowed to mention these contributing factors because you don't like the conclusions that I draw from them?
Are you serious?
Your conclusions are the only ones that are right and saying otherwise is harmful?
What a joke.
Feel free to argue my points as not being true. And I mean, the actual things I said, not the things you twisted into statements that sound offensive just so you can have something to get pissed off about. The fact that you had to change them into something else when you could easily copy / paste or just take the whole quote is evidence that you are well aware of what your trying to do. I'm just not sure why. Anyway, here are my points (many of them copy and pasted with ease) in case you actually want to refute them.
*Sometimes sciences/scientists are just wrong.
*Science thought lobotomies were proper solutions for people that weren't considered normal. (If you want more examples of things science once thought about mental conditions which are no longer believed to be true you just let me know as there are more than a few.)
*It isn't insane to think there might be a better way to address ADD than pumping people with aderall and ritalin. (which is what was actually said rather than what you incorrectly changed it to be.) (Also, notice all the modifiers in there that indicate I'm not trying to state some cold, solid fact - just the possibility that another solution could possibly exist.)
*It is not nonsense to be skeptical that maybe not everyone diagnosed with ADD/ADHD actually has it. (if you have some way to know that every diagnosis is correct and accurate, I'd sure love to know what that is) (Again with all the modifiers...)
*'Big pharma' has been known to sweep better courses of treatment for all kinds of conditions under the rug if they are less profitable.
*'Big pharma' are the same people that have proven untrustworthy of ethical standards.@faraday said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
Nobody is saying that medication is the only answer, or even the best answer for everyone. There are all kinds of behavioral therapies available.
That was kind of the whole point of my post. I agree with you. So I'm still not sure why you're picking a fight. If you want to, that's fine. Fight away if you must. But use my actual words instead of made up, self-serving BS edited so you can try to stand on some moral high ground you don't actually have. Besides, if you have to change my words to argue my point, you're not even arguing my point. You're just arguing your own fictional point.
And even then, we would probably still agree.
Science has come a long way. Science still has a long way to go. I believe in the near future, science will say, 'this was not the best way to go about treating ADD/ADHD, we didn't fully understand it and we're gonna do this instead'. That's what I believe. If you can't even acknowledge that is a possibility, that's on you.
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@Warma-Sheen I did not twist words, I quoted excerpts of what you said verbatim. If you cannot see how badly those things can be taken by multiple people then, to quote you again, "that's on you".
I stand by my point and see no value in debating yours.
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To sort of rephrase what @faraday said, if you have made an argument and everybody (or even a substantial number of people) is taking it the wrong way, then regardless of the intent of your argument, you almost certainly have a deficiency in form.
In general, the best way to remedy this is to apologize for any hurt your words may have caused and to either rephrase the argument if it is a very important argument or, and personally I am suggesting this course of action in the instant situation, simply withdraw from the argument entirely.
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@Rinel said in The ADD/ADHD Thread (cont'd from Peeves):
In general, the best way to remedy this is to apologize for any hurt your words may have caused and to either rephrase the argument if it is a very important argument or, and personally I am suggesting this course of action in the instant situation, simply withdraw from the argument entirely.
Thank you. This is what I've been struggling to find the words for.
I was hurt. Because the timing of the original post was such that it felt very much like a pointed (I don't want to say attack, but certainly response) note to me. I can acknowledge that perhaps it was simply a matter of timing, but there was nothing in the wording that indicated it was a wholly separate and independent post in and of itself and based on how others have reacted, I don't believe I am the only one who felt that way.
So I don't think I am wrong in feeling hurt. And I don't think I'm wrong, either, in feeling that it would be nice to be apologized to. I am not demanding one. I am not going to put my foot down and say I am owed one. But it would be nice. I was in a very bad place (I am still not in a great one) and someone came along and said something that knocked me down further. Then, when it was pointed out that what they said was very hurtful... they later came back and attempted to paint me and those who pointed out what they said was hurtful as the villains in the thing.
Again, @Warma-Sheen, I acknowledge that it may be a matter of crossed wires: you may have come in with a wholly separate concept and it was simply poor timing (see gif below):
but instead of being like 'lemme help put out this fire' you just sort of..... threw on some gasoline and then ran away.
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@Warma-Sheen Sure, doctors can give a wrong diagnosis. They practice, after all. (ha ha, old joke) But a lot of the time, ADD is under-diagnosed, especially in girls/women.
No, it's not insane to think there is something other than meds. But saying so in a thread where people are vulnerable and sharing it, discussing the methods other than meds, or their fears about going on meds, is probably not the time or place to say so. It's like some jackass posting that meme with a picture of the woods versus a picture of pills and saying being out in the woods will cure your depression, your drugs are shit.
Some people NEED the med help. It's like some asshole coming to me and telling me just diet and exercise and vitamin D and essential oils will cure my type 1 diabetes, I don't really need insulin. That guy would be considered an asshole.
Coming in here with your 'opinion' about how you think shit should be treated? Makes you seem like a rude asshole. Everyone is different in how they need to handle and cope with their shit. When they're opening up and being vulnerable about? Keep your 'opinon' to yourself, or you'll sound like Karen saying Young Living essential oils will cure everything!
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'There could be something better' is something we find out by trying things and finding out they don't work as well as they could.
If that better thing does not exist yet, non-damaging methods that currently exist that provide some assistance are still of benefit.
This is not difficult to understand.
Generally: I'm probably not going to share much personal info in this thread going forward for a number of reasons related to privacy and protecting myself, which has become necessary for my well-being. (Speculate at will, I know plenty of people will come to the ugliest conclusions they can conjure up.)
Will still be around to offer support when I can.
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Any of you ADHD kids have a klepto phase when you were younger?
