The Work Thread

[Macha]

FUCK THIS JOB.

That's it. That's the whole post.

[GreenFlashlight]

@macha Should I change the subject by saying "fuck all jobs under capitalism," or should I attempt to draw you out by asking questions?

[Arkandel]

It's absolutely baffling to me how some companies and teams mistreat their employees. Even from a purely effectiveness point of view they destroy resources which can be valuable and waste the money (and time, which translates to money) spent locating, interviewing and training them in the process.

[Macha]

@greenflashlight It was just a statement. I pee in a cup tomorrow for new job that pays better. So here's hoping next week I can tell this job to fuck itself.

[Derp]

@arkandel said in The Work Thread:

It's absolutely baffling to me how some companies and teams mistreat their employees. Even from a purely effectiveness point of view they destroy resources which can be valuable and waste the money (and time, which translates to money) spent locating, interviewing and training them in the process.

Is it, though?

I've never understood this mentality. This view of business assumes, incorrectly, that you are the sole maker of widgets and have been awarded a monopoly on the widget factory and that all of your employees are your property forever.

This isn't the case.

Businesses have to do a number of calculations. Do you train your employees to be the best makers of widgets in the universe? Then what do you do when they leave to go make Widgets for Wally's company, and not yours?

And if you're the chief engineer of Wally's Widgets, how do you keep Wendy, the best widget-maker in the world, from taking your job until you're ready to leave it?

There is always a balancing interest between competence and control, and when you factor those into the equation, it's absolutely profitable to keep your employees firmly under heel until you need them to have just a little more freedom. The analysis becomes refreshingly straightforward.

[Ganymede]

@derp

If your employees leave to compete with you, then you aren’t giving them an incentive to stay.

[Derp]

@ganymede said in The Work Thread:

@derp

If your employees leave to compete with you, then you aren’t giving them an incentive to stay.

Maybe.

Sometimes, though, you can't incentivize them to stay. Or the cost to incentivize them to stay is too high.

Jane is Wally's new daughter-in-law, and getting her to stay would cost an enormous amount of money.

Jack and John have serious personality conflicts. They're both brilliant, but Jack says he will leave if John stays employed. John is by far the more valuable member of that team to your daily operations.

Calculations get made. Employees are gonna leave, one way or another.

[Ganymede]

@derp

That’s true.

But the sign of a good employer, like a good sports team, is being able to weather the highs and lows of business as talent comes and goes.

So, I hope my firm does just fine.

[silverfox]

My husband is unhappy at his job and is on the 4th round of interviews for a totally new position. It is a government job with all the perks attached (most especially a Colorado wage vs the Arizona wage he is right now earning). It would be the first step forward he has tried to make in his career in 5 years after bottoming out from a toxic work environment.

I'm praying so hard.

[Derp]

@ganymede said in The Work Thread:

@derp

That’s true.

But the sign of a good employer, like a good sports team, is being able to weather the highs and lows of business as talent comes and goes.

So, I hope my firm does just fine.

I mean, I'm sure it will? I wasn't really using your situation as the example. More commenting on Ark's thing about mistreating employees. Your partner doesn't seem to have great time management skills, but it didn't sound like he was mistreating you so much as being myopic and annoying. Not really what I had in mind with Ark's example, which is more the 'actively tearing down of certain staffers' like what Macha is facing, and how that didn't seem to be very logical.

My point was that it could be perfectly logical, and even profitable, in a fucked up human political kind of way. But it makes sense well enough if you step back and look at more than just the organization itself, and look at the ecosystem it lives in.

[Macha]

I mean, I will probably offer to stay at current job, if they will match the small amount more for the job I pee in a cup for tomorrow (as soon as things are set in stone with a new job, I will let you all know. Without you guys, I think last month would have... been very, very bad.

I know they won't do it, but then I can say I offered in good faith, and well.. money is money

My co-worker that I shared the office with in that brief period before lockdown refused to do the inbound call crap. He told them his job is FIELD CSR. (He's right, we're supposed to be out with the people in the medicaid offices to get them more help.) He told them to send him to an office site, anywhere in a one hour drive one way. They didn't, and now they have to pay him unemployment.

Also, interviewed for yet another job today that offers more than the one I'm drug testing for. And it's chat, not calls. So I'd like that one even more. I can type like the dickens (Thanks, MU-ing as a hobby!) and still listen to music, etc.

[Ganymede]

@derp

I gotcha.

I was just hinting that I may be moving to another job myself.

That’s all.

[reimesu]

@macha If there is the SLIGHTEST chance that your current workplace will match that offer, then don't make it. It's not good faith when you want to leave and are miserable there and they'll find a reason to fire you soon anyway for trying to force them to hold to reasonable accommodations. And then you've screwed yourself out of a job you want.

My unsolicited advice.

[Ganymede]

@macha

Think of it this way.

If you had the chance to move out of a bad domestic situation to somewhere safer, would you give your abuser the chance to give you a reason to stay?

Let’s not pretend your situation at your current employer is a good one.

[Sunny]

@macha

Good faith efforts ought to be reserved for people you don't know for sure have been dealing with you in bad faith all along. What if they say "sure!" and then you turn down the other job, and then they say 'oh we didn't actually mean that lol'. That's really...not out of the realm of possibility with these people, based on what you've said so far.

[Derp]

@ganymede said in The Work Thread:

@derp

I gotcha.

I was just hinting that I may be moving to another job myself.

That’s all.

I don't know shit about Ohio law.

But if you move over here and need some paralegals I got some good people I can send you!

[faraday]

@macha said in The Work Thread:

I know they won't do it, but then I can say I offered in good faith, and well.. money is money

Given everything you've described about your current employer, it's hard to fathom any amount of raise they might offer you that would make it worth imperiling your mental health to stay.

@ganymede said in The Work Thread:

If you had the chance to move out of a bad domestic situation to somewhere safer, would you give your abuser the chance to give you a reason to stay?

This too. If things are so bad that you feel it necessary to file complaints with the state, it seems like that's probably a place you should run from at the earliest possible opportunity.

That said, we don't know the full situation, just what you've shared here. I hope things get better for you regardless.

[saosmash]

client. client we had a hearing this morning and a 40 minute phone call afterwards. then multiple back and forth email exchanges.

client why are you calling after hours. you know i'm not going to pick up the phone. none of this is actually accomplishing anything I AM NOT AN EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ATTORNEY

[Ganymede]

@saosmash

“I know this is hard. Divorce is unimaginably difficult. But you don’t pay me to cry with you, so if I seem like a robot it is because that is what you want me to be.”

[Roz]

@macha said in The Work Thread:

I mean, I will probably offer to stay at current job, if they will match the small amount more for the job I pee in a cup for tomorrow (as soon as things are set in stone with a new job, I will let you all know. Without you guys, I think last month would have... been very, very bad.

I know they won't do it, but then I can say I offered in good faith, and well.. money is money

Don't do it. Don't do that even for a job you otherwise like decently, because 1) it tells them that you're looking for other opportunities meaning they'll invest in you less, and 2) you don't want to stay at a place that will only give you a raise if you're about to leave.

DEFINITELY don't do it for a job you don't want to stay at. There's no expectation -- no reasonable expectation by actual sane people, at least -- that employees are expected to give their employers room the counteroffer. It's not included in the professional norm of leaving a job. Just put in your notice and GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE.