[Ethnicity Thread] Who Do You Think You Are?
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@Cirno said:
@spasticgoat said:
I t sounds like the Chinese government is displaying hostility towards every type of people.
I'm perfectly willing to agree.
They aren't our allies, for certain.
"Our".
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@Olsson said:
I have never really understood the thing where you all list like five or so nationalities/cultures that you 'are'. It seems to be a New World thing I guess, with all the immigration? I don't understand it, although I find it mildly intresting.
@Coin said:
It's a figure of speech for most people, @Olsson. You'll notice in my initial post I said I come "from [Italian and Spanish and Catalonian] stock". It's a figure of speech. I'm as Italian as you are German. Even less, since I've never been to Italy. I think you're putting too much emphasis on people's use of the verb "to be", here.
This not actually the case with many Americans. At least with the ones that I grew up with.
It really is an American thing, I think. I don't think Canadians do that (eh, @Insomnia?). I think part of it is you get Americans who are all OORAA! AMERICA! OOORAA! FREEDOM!! Or you get the Americans who don't find much cultural identity in their country, and so fall back on the "my ancestors are X Y and Z". I was pretty much rudely shaken from this by a Swiss and an Irish Guild-mates from TSW. I tried to explain that part of it is wanting to claim some pride in heritage and where we came from and got shutdown with a, "But you're X Y OR Z. You're American."
And also as @Luna mentioned earlier in the thread white Americans very often don't feel like they have much culture to claim, so try and claim culture from past ancestors that they don't honestly have ties to anymore.
My last name is Scottish and I grew up on family stories of my great-great-grandfather stowing away on a ship from Scotland to Novia Scottia, and making his way across Canada before he started working as a logger up and down the West Coast. (Oh and the family has a castle back in Scotland -- everyone does, duh.) He eventually died of gangrene in Seattle because he poured a pot of hot coffee on his leg (because he tried to pick it up with his cane, rather than stand up and get it), and never got treatment for it. I grew up on stories of his wife who was a member of the Swinomish tribe and we had a family story of "Annie and the Great White Goat", which was a story about how she was kidnapped and made her way home on a canoe following the Great White Goat.
I have a tribal card somewhere (or did, it got left in Florida and is effectively gone forever now), and that's neat but I am too white to actually go anywhere and claim to be a tribe member. Do I wish I were a little less white and a little more Swinomish? Eh, maybe. I'd feel like I had a better claim to that culture.
I think that deep down that's what it is for most white Americans who claim they are anything but white. As @Luna said earlier in the thread. We feel we're lacking in culture so try to take from others.
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@spasticgoat said:
I t sounds like the Chinese government is displaying hostility towards every type of people.
And @spasticgoat gets it in one. @Cirno making it a "black thing" is being so disingenuous it verges on … wait for it! … black comedy.
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@WTFE said:
And @spasticgoat gets it in one. @Cirno making it a "black thing" is being so disingenuous it verges on … wait for it! … black comedy.
Your casually racist attitude endears you to me in ways I can't even begin to properly feel, chum.
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@Cirno said:
@WTFE said:
And @spasticgoat gets it in one. @Cirno making it a "black thing" is being so disingenuous it verges on … wait for it! … black comedy.
Your casually racist attitude endears you to me in ways I can't even begin to properly feel, chum.
"It's not my job to care about non-black people."Okay.
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Is there something wrong with my statement? Are you implying a thing?
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@Cirno said:
Is there something wrong with my statement? Are you implying a thing?
I only care about people of my race.
Your problems mean absolutely nothing to me.
Why would it trouble me if implications existed? -
@spasticgoat said:
I only care about people of my race.
You should.
I hope none of you thought I was suggesting that we poor, helpless black people need others to care about us. We do not. We neither desire your help or enjoy it.
Your problems mean absolutely nothing to me.
They should not, and I would be a fool to expect them to mean anything to you.
Why would it trouble me if implications existed?
It shouldn't.
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@Cirno said:
@spasticgoat said:
I only care about people of my race.
You should.
I hope none of you thought I was suggesting that we poor, helpless black people need others to care about us. We do not. We neither desire your help or enjoy it.
Your problems mean absolutely nothing to me.
They should not, and I would be a fool to expect them to mean anything to you.
Why would it trouble me if implications existed?
It shouldn't.
As you are the emissary of the entire African-American experience, please arrange for peaceful resolutions to all current conflicts. Now that you've been identified and will be working as the spokestroll for the fullness of the cultures represented, we should have this all zipped up by noon tomorrow.
Or you're another person with an opinion who has no more or less authority than the next person with an opinion, and should know that speaking on behalf of an entire spectrum of people on their behalf is what starts problems before it fixes anything.
People help people. People hurt people. People who speak for large groups of people have faulty judgment and terrible logic. I represent my own race and ethnicity and do not focus on it. No choice of mine will change my skin pigment a shade darker or lighter, nor would I want it to. What I do with my voice is up to me. Don't raise it on my behalf again.
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@spasticgoat said:
As you are the emissary of the entire African-American experience, please arrange for peaceful resolutions to all current conflicts. Now that you've been identified and will be working as the spokestroll for the fullness of the cultures represented, we should have this all zipped up by noon tomorrow.
Or you're another person with an opinion who has no more or less authority than the next person with an opinion, and should know that speaking on behalf of an entire spectrum of people on their behalf is what starts problems before it fixes anything.
People help people. People hurt people. People who speak for large groups of people have faulty judgment and terrible logic. I represent my own race and ethnicity and do not focus on it. No choice of mine will change my skin pigment a shade darker or lighter, nor would I want it to. What I do with my voice is up to me. Don't raise it on my behalf again.
I speak for the militant African-Americans; the Malcolm X's , the Huey P. Newtons, and the Stokely Carmichaels. I speak for the Black Panther party, which is now defunct due to the intrigues of the US Government.
I firmly believe that we must free ourselves from the yoke of the Oppressors By Any Means Necessary, and that we can protect and help ourselves, without the help of outside intervention.
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@Cirno said:
without the help of outside intervention.
Are we not friends? I know I'm just an internet stranger but I care about you as a person. My posts of "Hey Cirno, glad you're alive!" whenever you pop up again isn't me being a troll or trying to be cute. I honestly mean I am glad you are not dead in a ditch somewhere, and that you are doing well enough that you can come talk to us/troll us/interact with us through this faceless interface.
Should I not help you (if I could), or care, because we're different looking?
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@Cirno said:
@spasticgoat said:
As you are the emissary of the entire African-American experience, please arrange for peaceful resolutions to all current conflicts. Now that you've been identified and will be working as the spokestroll for the fullness of the cultures represented, we should have this all zipped up by noon tomorrow.
Or you're another person with an opinion who has no more or less authority than the next person with an opinion, and should know that speaking on behalf of an entire spectrum of people on their behalf is what starts problems before it fixes anything.
People help people. People hurt people. People who speak for large groups of people have faulty judgment and terrible logic. I represent my own race and ethnicity and do not focus on it. No choice of mine will change my skin pigment a shade darker or lighter, nor would I want it to. What I do with my voice is up to me. Don't raise it on my behalf again.
I speak for the militant African-Americans; the Malcolm X's , the Huey P. Newtons, and the Stokely Carmichaels. I speak for the Black Panther party, which is now defunct due to the intrigues of the US Government.
I firmly believe that we must free ourselves from the yoke of the Oppressors By Any Means Necessary, and that we can protect and help ourselves, without the help of outside intervention.
"I believe in the brotherhood of man, all men, but I don't believe in brotherhood with anybody who doesn't want brotherhood with me. I believe in treating people right, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn't know how to return the treatment."
"I believe in recognizing every human being as a human being, neither white, black, brown nor red. When you are dealing with humanity as one family, there's no question of integration or intermarriage. It's just one human being marrying another human being, or one human being living around and with another human being."
"In the past, yes, I have made sweeping indictments of all white people. I will never be guilty of that again — as I know now that some white people are truly sincere, that some truly are capable of being brotherly toward a black man. The true Islam has shown me that a blanket indictment of all white people is as wrong as when whites make blanket indictments against blacks."
You may wish to take Malcolm X from the list. He was assassinated by three members of the Nation of Islam, likely for changing his rhetoric. He grew concerned about death threats against his family from his former compatriots. One of the most iconic images of him has him holding a rifle and peering out of a window, prepared to defend himself against the Nation of Islam's assassins.
Unless, of course, you're suggesting that killing African-Americans is ideologically supported behavior and it is endorsed by your ethos. In which case, you've certainly made a clear case on finding a racist a lot sooner than I expected.
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@Cobaltasaurus
Of course we are friends. I look forward to e-hanging out with you as well, and I am convinced your feelings are genuine.
However, I do not hold you to a special obligation to help or care about me.
Fact: I have no white friends in real life. It's true.
I have numerous black friends and that's the extent of my social sphere.
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http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/article_9722.shtml
Actually, Malcolm X died under suspicious circumstances that may or may not include the FBI. It is debated whether or not the NOI was at fault.
The going theory? FBI operatives, cloaking themselves as NOI members, performed a false flag action in the hopes of discrediting the NOI and breaking their influence.
Also, he said a few stupid things, like what you quoted. Doesn't matter. He was as human, and error-prone, as any other person. I'm a fan of the earlier, more confrontational Malcolm. He toned down a lot in his later years, for some reason.
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@Cirno said:
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/article_9722.shtml
Actually, Malcolm X died under suspicious circumstances that may or may not include the FBI. It is debated whether or not the NOI was at fault.
The going theory? FBI operatives, cloaking themselves as NOI members, carried out a false flag action in the hopes of discrediting the NOI and breaking their influence.
Also, he said a few stupid things, like what you quoted. Doesn't matter. He was as human, and error-prone, as any other person. I'm a fan of the earlier, more confrontational Malcolm. He toned down a lot in his later years, for some reason.
They probably invented the death threats, forced removal of his family from their home by NOI members, and the sentiments spoken by that well-known shill for the FBI, Louis Farrakhan.
Or he was killed for changing his mind when he realized the problem was a little bigger than just one color versus another vying for who got to be the rightest group on a pile of dead bodies.
If you want to cling to a dated, cherry-picked ideology which espouses, supports, and breeds contempt for other races, have at it, tiger. I've seen crazy people do weirder things for lesser motives than racial identity before.
You may want to look up the court documents for the Hayer affidavits.
Incidentally, if you're looking for a good firebrand of a political leader to consider a heroic figure, try Augustin Bizimana. He also advocated for killing people who believed in different ideologies. Plus, he's definitely black.
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Dated
The unrest in Baltimore indicates otherwise.
It was relevant then; it remains relevant now. Perhaps you also think the Black Panthers were "dated", but you must admit that if brigades of heavily-armed Afro-American citizens ran overwatch missions on police forces, the monthly death-by-cop rate would halve overnight.
What I'd really like to do is start a program like that; I have my own firearms and ammunition, but nobody in my area is really interested in the drudgery of patrolling the street. It's unfortunate, really; a race of warriors reduced to indolence and passive acceptance of their fate.
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race of warriors
Wow.
Yep. You win, Cirno. -
@Cirno said:
Dated
The unrest in Baltimore indicates otherwise.
It was relevant then; it remains relevant now. Perhaps you also think the Black Panthers were "dated", but you must admit that if brigades of heavily-armed Afro-American citizens ran overwatch missions on police forces, the monthly death-by-cop rate would halve overnight.
What I'd really like to do is start a program like that; I have my own firearms and ammunition, but nobody in my area is really interested in the drudgery of patrolling the street. It's unfortunate, really; a race of warriors reduced to indolence and passive acceptance of their fate.
I've stayed out of this for as long as I can. But after reading this I really can't help but ask if you have actually paid any attention to things? You talk about how it's a Black vs. White Cop thing, and sure, in many cases it is. But you leave out the fact that non-African-Americans have also stood hand in hand with African-Americans and protested. You leave out the fact that Black on Black crime has been an epidemic going back twenty or more years. You also blindly ignore the fact that any heavily armed vigilante style group will not HALVE the death-by-cop rate and will most likely in fact DOUBLE or TRIPLE the death-by-cop rate.
Answering violence with violence perpetuates the violence. I'm not anti-guns, I'm not even really anti-violence. But I think that there is a time where people need to stop rolling through the cycle of violence in response to violence. Protest? Hell yeah. I was raised by a hippie. I was taught protesting for your rights is a good thing, but waving a gun around and screaming to be heard and to stop the shootings seems to be the wrong way to go about things.
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I hope nobody ever makes a thread about ethnicity ever again.
But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?
-Mark Twain -
@Silver said:
I hope nobody ever makes a thread about ethnicity ever again.
I knew exactly where this thread was going when Cirno posted it.
