RL things I love
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@Arkandel
I am willing to bet the vast majority of the people who go to any organized rally vote.
Those that don't vote, likely wouldn't bother to show up for a rally either this hold true on both sides of the divide.Edit to add: Also depending on the locations they lived in voting might not have mattered. I live in a solid Republican state if in theory every marcher was from my home state, and had not voted even 175,000 vote more for Clinton in my state would have made 0 difference.
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DC was crazysauce. When I see my friends pics I still wish I'd gone, but friends have also shared tales of being so pressed in the crowd that they just had to wait around to even move in any direction. There were also riots the day before, and so even though I was well aware the march planners were emphasizing peaceful statement in every way, there's always the concern that that can change...mobs of people are hard to predict.
That said, it turns out that it was peaceful, just verrrrry crowded. I half regret that we didn't give it a go and half think that we should have tried, but I have a feeling there will be ample opportunities in my locale to express my opinion in such a way should I choose.
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@Arkandel Actually I had a hotlink on my phone to register people to vote in my county. Every single person of age I talked to of which there were many had already registered. Our political party organization for the county had over 100 people ready to do the same as well as some in possession of the paper forms--to the same result.
Please don't buy into Trump's bullshit.
I was an election observer for my county. We had the biggest earliest turnout ever. It was amazing to see. I spent about 15-20 hours a week there as an observer for 4 weeks straight. Over a million votes just in my county and Trump was steamrollered like whoa.
Please don't buy into Trump's bullshit. It's not a fair assertion (because lets you and me be honest with each other, he wasn't really asking a question.)
Even post election the numbers showing up to my legislative district meetings keep growing and growing with people eager to get involved, from all walks of life, sacrificing time to be there. I and several newcombers ran for and got seats on the executive board for my LD. The county meetings are packed. We are expecting a record turnout at state just from observers,because so many citizens are eager to put pressure on leadership of my party and our elected officials to fight.
Please don't buy into Trump's alternative facts bullshit.
It is fucking amazing what's going on, and it's going to continue. Happy to talk in private since I don't want to spam here but...
Don't buy into his bullshit.
And yep, me and my oldest (who is 15, made their sign and asked to go with no prompting or guidance from me) were marching with our chosen family (which includes Cupcake).
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@mietze said in RL things I love:
@Arkandel Actually I had a hotlink on my phone to register people to vote in my county. Every single person of age I talked to of which there were many had already registered. Our political party organization for the county had over 100 people ready to do the same as well as some in possession of the paper forms--to the same result.
Please don't buy into Trump's bullshit.
As I mentioned in the post, I'm well aware Trump makes bullshit posts to serve his agenda. They are bullshit because he is much craftier than the crap he posts would make him sound like, and he posts them in the first place to cause something specific - to counter a good argument without using facts, for example, or to distract from revelations made in the media with some random petty shot on a celebrity.
It's not his bullshit I'm worried about, it's my perception that we're (meaning liberals and not just in the US) circle-jerking by continuously preaching to the choir - each other - things we already believe, and which we know will be well accepted because we're aware our target audiences accept them as well.
In that way it's easier for 'us' (I don't mean to bundle everyone's opinions together just by using a generic label like 'liberals', it's only to argue my very specific point here) to accept there are two camps and we simply happen to belong to the one where racists, homophobes, xenophobes and bigots are not, making us by definition the better people. It's certainly an attractive thought. I would personally like to buy into it - sure, it comes with the assumption the other side is extremely numerous as well, meaning tens or hundreds of millions of the worst humanity has to offer, but at least I'd be sided with the good guys. That's good, right? Being with the good guys?
But the nagging concern I have is that things aren't quite as black and white, not while right wing nuts the world over are gaining one victory after the other. There are people (who I'd like to demonize but can't) who feel left behind, ignored and neglected, and we - our side - haven't been able to reach them through years of more or less liberal governing. I don't know that they are all the scum of the earth; being downtrodden, unemployed, living in rural areas and stuck somewhere in lower middle class hell doesn't necessarily mean when you vote for someone like Trump you're an asshole; maybe it means you're just desperate. And if we're the good guys why haven't we done more for them?
I am in no way saying Trump gives half a shit about those people either, even if they're his base. He's already betrayed them - his cabinet is a who's who of the one-percent - and he will continue to do so unapologetically over the next four years... or more, if something doesn't change.
I am saying knowing he's full of shit doesn't mean the people who elected him didn't. I'm trying to imagine what that feels like; knowing you are voting for a person like that and still feeling he's better than the alternative.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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Here, read this. It's a good article.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/donald-trump-2016-election-oklahoma-working-class
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@TNP said in RL things I love:
@Ganymede said in RL things I love:
@Arkandel said in RL things I love:
"Why didn't these people vote?" he asked.
Who said they didn't?
Exactly. They took the time to travel to DC (and all the other cities), stand forever, and march to protest. Almost certainly they took 10 minutes to go vote. But saying they didn't - based on no facts whatsoever - is a good way to make them not count.
Which is a thing that bugs me: Voting is not the only way to be heard. Being heard is another way to be heard. Ignoring 175k people parked on your front lawn is pretentious at the very kindest.
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I love my extended family, all of whom except one voted for Trump. Most are coal miners/from coal mining generational families.
I love them. I don't demonize them.
However. They ARE racist, xenophobic, homophobes who think they want a theocracy.
I think you would be greatly surprised at the diversity of background and current socio-economic as well as age/gender/orientation/race/religion/health status of the people present and the nature of the issues and topics discussed at my local party meetings. It's not preaching to the choir.
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My concern: Between 3-6 million Democrats did not vote or did not vote Democrat in 2016 when compared to 2012.
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@Ganymede said in RL things I love:
Here, read this. It's a good article.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/donald-trump-2016-election-oklahoma-working-class
It is, thanks for sharing!
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I think the other thing that you have to look at is that huge swaths of the country, especially those left behind, have not been living under "liberal" governance. There can be lots of hopes and wishes, but if federal things are blocked by congress, or grants rejected by the state, or protection given to environmental polluters by the state, or state coffers being drained by revenue loss from huge tax breaks while the funding for schools and entitlement programs is eviscerated--that is something that is largely due to the states, not the president. Or even the national congress.
It's something that's lost on many people. I've had a lot of conversations about it with relatives and others.
But I have noticed that awareness is shifting to more awareness in general of how important local action is. Yes, there is still an influx of Bernie or Busters whose main involvement is wanting to change party infrastructure (which is fine and a valid thing to work on when you're a member), but a lot of them plus a lot of others are starting to engage on everything from why should we concede entrepreneurs and small biz to the republicans, to how do we support / address the concerns of agriculture (a large part of our state economy and stress point), public land use that benefits real live people, education policy to ensure that rural areas aren't hosed (and those areas tend to be pretty red).
I have noticed a steady stream of people, myself included, stepping away from armchair Facebook warrioring and just voting, to getting involved both in party structures and indie grassroots efforts.
So, I have observed and participated in and even started a lot of cross-dialogue and action, especially in my two very passionate areas of education and accessibility. But I can only speak for (and affect in a big way) my locality. You'd have to speak to people in the rust belt to know what is and isn't happening there.
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@mietze said in RL things I love:
I think the other thing that you have to look at is that huge swaths of the country, especially those left behind, have not been living under "liberal" governance.
I think the point of the article is that this doesn't matter.
In the heartland of America, the ideals that most left-wingers fight for simply don't exist. It is quite literally a step back in time. This is not a bad thing, but it is a thing which, as a nation, we must respect and try to understand.
In this area of America, people have been left behind. Corporations had their way, and deserted it. Farms are being taken over by corporations. Old labor -- coal mining, cattle-herding -- is being put out of business. And these people -- these proud, wonderful people -- look to the federal government as the cause.
Of course, the federal government isn't to blame for what's happening, but the federal government has done nothing in the past eight years to assist the heartland. So, rather than put faith in the system again through Clinton, they decided to try to blow it all to Hell with Trump.
There are many, I'm sure, who are just as anxious as we are. And they cling to hope, as we do, for something better. Best thing to do is go back, reach out, and figure out how we can all help each other without the government because, from the way things are going, it's going to fucking shitballs in a second.
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He lost the popular vote by what, almost 3 million? it's ridiculous to assume they didn't.
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Exactly. Believe me when I say that honestly a large part of why I'm doing what I'm doing, beyond my state, is for my cousins and their kids. They have suffered a lot and it's only going to get worse. That's what I tap into when I need to find my rage. Not at them. Most of the time. I do occasionally want to choke out the one with 6 children by 4 different men who constantly posts about how all the sluts who wear leggings in public to defraud all men are the reason why America's gone to hell in a hand basket.
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Sounds like she needs a pair of good leggings to better understand them.
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I have little sympathy for the "let it all burn" vote.
I can either try to get them on my side by helping them while they resist, or help push them to political extinction.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
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@Misadventure The circumstances are completely (?) different but the last time there was a laughably misimplemented referendum in Greece a few years ago the way a friend of mine put it when he was voting for the radical option of the two was that he wanted "everyone to be okay or no one to be okay. Everything to be well or everything to go to shit".
I don't understand it but I've never been truly without options. There are people across the world, too many of them, who are simply marginalized. They've nothing to lose, and it shows. Why would they show empathy for others for a potential disaster when they perceive - rightly or not - none coming their way for their own presently dire situation?
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Misadventure said in RL things I love:
I have little sympathy for the "let it all burn" vote.
I can either try to get them on my side by helping them while they resist, or help push them to political extinction.
Then you will succeed at neither. The marginalized and forgotten will always exist; they will not get on your side until you try to sympathize with theirs.
Said another way, there will always be someone dying from cancer brought by their own actions, but if you don't understand why they engage in such activity you will never get them to stop.
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I'm current on all the articles telling me about disaffected in the US.
The problem is no one can save an outdated economic setup. Machinery and large corporations have already bought up everything and taken over. A family could in theory grow its own food on a farm I am sure, homesteaders do very well, but they will not retake the rural areas, nor the rural businesses, back.
I am aware that the health of my ecosystem relies in part on the health of my neighbors ecosystems.
Right now, they are actively cultivating weeds even better than I am.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
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@Arkandel said in RL things I love:
There are people across the world, too many of them, who are simply marginalized. They've nothing to lose, and it shows. Why would they show empathy for others for a potential disaster when they perceive - rightly or not - none coming their way for their own presently dire situation?
There are also people who feel marginalized and slighted due to a lack of perspective.
My parents, retired, have a combined retirement income of roughly $100k/year. They are also not always the most responsible people and they consider many of what anyone outside the US would consider luxuries to be essentials. (Satellite TV with all the channels, each has a car, they both have good health insurance and care, etc.)
They have, however, bought into the lie of 'welfare queens', violent and lazy minorities, and abusers of the system like it was the world's most epic, awesome trend ever. They fervently believe anyone not like them is undeserving of any sort of help whatsoever, and resent that so much as a penny of their tax income would go to people they are convinced will waste and abuse it, living in the lap of luxury, while they worked hard all of their lives for what they (wrongly) perceive to be 'just barely getting by'. (They really did, too. There's a reason I grew up as something of a workaholic who freaks out when I'm not productive enough and my 'enough' is not sanely scaled.)
Oh fucking well.
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Well, I'm hoping that the press get their heads out of their asses and return to the era fact-checking and contextualizing. I don't believe they're dirty liars, but their reporting has a huge impact on what people see and know.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
