Diversity Representation in MU*ing
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@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I don't know why men playing lesbians should be expected to play trans lesbians instead of cis lesbians.
no one should be expected to play anything. what is even happening now
@Caractus said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I checked and apparently it was just racism.
with that app you're lucky you got a chance to change it in the first place
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@Kanye-Qwest said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
no one should be expected to play anything. what is even happening now
I agree and transphobia was happening but I think it's over at present
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@silverfox said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
What minority groups don't have particularly good representation on Mu*s right now?
Good as in well done, or good as in proportionate?
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Lmao I just read that fucking app, what bits I could get through without just fucking wanting to jump off a cliff.
SEETHING, PERVERSE LUSTS!!!
Holy shit, you know, this app is perfect because I've been wanting a more clear example of when it's obvious when a concept is racially fucked. I don't think a single person read that app and went "hmmm I don't know what the problem is here".
This is what I mean by it's kind of obvious and common sense shit. It's a clear example. Is it possible to fuck up in some subtle way that is probably ultimately easily cleared up with a conversation? Sure. But if you have genuine interest in writing a POC that isn't one giant fetish, it's really, really fucking hard to just accidentally write an app so bad it needs to get banned. Unless I guess your entire impression of every non-white race came from watching white comedians do whatever-face.
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I'm also offended this guy thinks the only reason people could be opposed to an app like that is 'you don't like black people having sex and would be OK with a WHITE WOMAN being just for sex purposes' (paraphrased)
dude, spend like, a week on this board and you'll see we take issue with people trolling narrative-focused games just for sex, period. It's not the sex that's the issue, it's the 'fuck everything y'all are doing here, I got bored on Shang'
I don't care what your race, gender, or sexuality is. If you barge into a narrative scene all 'HURR HURR IGNORE TEH BAD GUI LET'S ALL FUUUUUUUK' I'm gonna be pretty fuckin' annoyed.
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Was that app supposed to be some weird sort of joke? I'd be embarrassed to even type those things. Let alone let someone else see it.
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@LWhiskey To me it looks like a vicious sort of trap. Either it gets approved, at which point someone has approved a hideous caricature of a character, look aren't they racist for letting it in - or it doesn't, at which point they won't approve a black character, look aren't they racist for not letting it in.
I don't believe that app was made in good faith.
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@LWhiskey My guess is @Caractus is a fascist trying to make anti-racist movements look bad. It's a common tactic of the far-right.
They do things like claim to be a member of a disadvantaged group and then use the fake identity to do one of two things:
- Claim to endorse movements that oppose their existence
- Purposely reinforce negative stereotypes against the marginalised group, masquerading as a member of the marginalised group
An example of this would be creating a fake twitter account in which you claim to be a card-carrying member of Antifa, and then tweeting things like 'kill all white people' or 'George Soros is my dream daddy'.
Or creating an account in which you pretend to be a Muslim and post things like 'I like fucking goats', 'all women should be slaves', 'Americans must die'.
Another example would be a white person hopping online, claiming they're black, and then telling people that as a black person they never experience any racism, racism hasn't been a thing for hundreds of years, and that it's really black people holding black people back now. Or, conversely, lashing out in such an absurdly disproportionate manner as to desensitise the community to any future, legitimate accusations of racism.
In this instance, I believe their purpose was to divide the community by castigating respected members such as @JinShei and the staff of Arx by first claiming to have been banned on racist grounds, reinforcing negative stereotypes of black people with their app, and then saying 'I myself am black, the real racist is you for questioning my motives'.
It's not just nonsense, it's malicious nonsense. Also while I can't verify this, according to a friend on these boards, the poster was likely this person, who has a pattern of pulling that kind of manipulative BS.
Another common tactic they were utilising on this thread is Concern Trolling.
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I totally agree with you, and that’s why I’m not taking the bait here.
It would be great if the conversation could continue.
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@Caractus your app is like "maybe we should bring back kink shaming"
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@Kestrel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@LWhiskey My guess is @Caractus is a fascist trying to make anti-racist movements look bad. It's a common tactic of the far-right.
I mean, my own guess is that he's the 4chan troll back again like, though in that case this all still applies.
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@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Kestrel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@LWhiskey My guess is @Caractus is a fascist trying to make anti-racist movements look bad. It's a common tactic of the far-right.
I mean, my own guess is that he's the 4chan troll back again like, though in that case this all still applies.
That was my immediate, knee-jerk sense based on the 'No one wants to play pretend' post. The 4chan troll always always always starts off with a post like that. A low-ball, shallow end of the pool, 'this seems harmless, but will still get people riled up' and then it's off to the races with the racism.
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Hot take: Even if this person is black, like, fuck off anyway?
Tyler Perry is black and mostly preaches boomery black Christian agendas and has weird colorism shit where the dark skinned black people in his movies are the asshole wretches and the lightskinned people are either the saviors or victims and such. (Colorism is a deep cut issue within the black community that there's no need to get into in detail, but, it's something Tyler Perry is criticized for).
I also meet white washed black people perpetually, who have the same fucked up racial opinions due to the people they're surrounded by who regularly do this weird subtle gaslighting by making you feel as if they're your friends and you aren't really black, etc. So you start thinking all the black things about you are negative, and you don't "fit in" with black people because you aren't "like them".
Additional Citation: I WAS LITERALLY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE FOR OVER A DECADE
Or hell, motherfucking Bill Cosby. Before he was a known shitheel for drugging women, for decades he pretty much shamed any black person who didn't fit squarely into his definition of what black people should be. This has been a common Bill Cosby criticism for fucking ever. In A Different World, the first season is a Cosby written season. It's his ideal boomer ass vision of black college. Immediately after that, a young black woman, Debbie Allen, took over the show when the producers were told that this show was inaccurate as fuck, and from season 2 onward the show actually becomes good, and Cosby has nothing to do with it. But my point is, Cosby weaponized his blackness and white Americans could look at him and say "well, if a black guy is saying it, must be true..."
Being black and weaponizing your blackness against other black people is a big fuck off from me. I firmly believe that POCs, LGBTQ people, and whatever else, should express themselves however they want if it isn't hurting anyone else. I don't think anyone should have to be a certain way to be accepted, I don't believe in respectability politics. You want to be a Carlton nerd? Go ahead. You want to hang your pants down and wear a durag? Go right ahead (actually I'm currently wearing one, my hair needs that shit).
Hell I'm not even gonna shame raceplay, everyone works through their shit in their own way, I'm not even entirely against doing it myself if I trust the person, that shit is lowkey hot.
However, if you're gonna go out of your way to very clearly weaponize your blackness against other black people, or do some shit that is clearly meant to provoke random white people in a way that only makes it harder for black people to interact with them or literally exist, then I've gotta draw the line there. Like, by all means, troll and provoke known racists, but doing shit like that person attempted to do on Arx with people I haven't really heard much of anything bad about only turns people who might not know any better against us, and then I end up having to be the one who suffers the consequences for it.
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Are these good piece of advice re: Writing a good desc of a PoC?
Part 1: https://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com/post/95955707903/skin-writing-with-color-has-received-several
Part 2: https://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com/post/96830966357/writing-with-color-description-guide-words-for -
@silverfox Huh. I never thought about the ubiquity of using food to describe people's skin color. In one way, it seems kind of natural, since food is a fairly universal experience and thus makes an easily comprehensible illustration. My problem with it is, why is it so important to you that I picture exactly that shade and hue of melanin when I imagine your character? I know a lot of people like to go into painful detail, and I understand the importance of being clear about major details, but skin hue is something that can usually be described in very loose terms and still convey what it's meant to. For example, if I'm describing a shut-in who doesn't get much sun, "pale" conveys that and no one has ever asked me if my paleness is more akin to cream, filet of cod, or vanilla with a sprinkle of cinnamon.
My favorite technique to describe a person's skin is to do it for ALL my characters. POC descs usually call out their race, so I insist on doing it for white characters too. I refuse to let myself fall into the trap of thinking white people are a default and everyone else is an aberration whose not-whiteness needs to be emphasized. If the level of detail I put into a white person's desc makes me feel like a white supremacist, then I back the hell off and apply that same level of restraint to a POC desc.
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I actually used those when writing Rinel's description, though I chose to use wood despite the ambivalence in the post. I want to say I used "chestnut," "mahogany," and "emerald" for Rinel, and "pallid," "black," and "blue" for Alina.
If I could, I'd go back and change Rinel's "emerald" to "green," for reasons that are probably pretty obvious.
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I also found that blog recently, based on some digging around I was doing as a result of this thread. It has a lot of (what seems to me) really useful/helpful information on it about various tropes and things as well, which was informative.
I was searching because I was thinking about making my next PC black, based on the conversation have been having here, but I had some wariness about writing a description, as I was aware that there were some issues about the way that is commonly done -such as the food thing.
There are useful pieces on describing hair, facial features and so on too, which I found helpful.
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Food is good, the problem is there's nothing tasty that is super pale. Milk? Mayonnaise? Vanilla ice cream? Marshmallow fluff? Unseasoned chicken? Tasteless peaches?
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Scallops, angel food cake, classic fondue, Mashed potatoes (and baked potatoes but I grant that the crispy skin of the baked potato is the best part), vanilla or coconut ice cream, divinity, meringues, coconut sticky rice, congee, jicama with like a little lime juice squirted on it...
She had skin like a tender scallop?
Her complexion was as pale as a big bowl of congee before anyone put the toppings on...Doesn't super have a nice ring to it though.
His cheeks were as robust and smooth and tender as a porkbun!
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ok the porkbun one is cute, though
