RL Anger

[Tyche]

@Cupcake said in RL Anger:

Today, out of nowhere, a woman I have never seen before walks up to me in the middle of the store while he's with me on leash and goes into this lengthy explanation about how she's extremely allergic to dogs and so the only places she can go are restaurants and stores, and could I please stop bringing my dog to the store?

If you run into her again, tell her your dog has been certified as allergen free, gluten free, and peanut free.
If that doesn't deter her, start pointing at her and yell "Communist! communist!"
I'm also often at a loss for words when confronted and that usually works for me.
Most people will immediately turn tail and run from crazy.

[GangOfDolls]

@Cupcake

I'm from the Midwest so allow me to be your passive aggressive translator. Trust me, being from the Midwest by the time you invariably run screaming away from your flyover state after high school, you have a goddamn fucking PhD in passive aggressive control freak ninja small talk and you can spot another one at 90 paces.

This lady? She just didn't want your dog in there.
Why? Because she is the unspoken arbiter of all things common sense and righteous aka 'the way she likes it', see also 'the way its supposed to be according to her'
How? There are multiple approaches. This a common one: the created false threat aka concern trolling. 'I am allergic to dogs and this is supposed to be a safe space for me and aren't you concerned that you might be making other people feel unsafe and what if there are children and and what if your dog bites them and and and...' Yeaaaaah. Another is the syrup sweet backhanded verbal stab, i.e. 'what a cutie! he looks so happy! I bet he's just counting the minutes until he can get out of here and go on his walk!'

If this lady were as allergic to dogs as she claims to be, then she could either a) approach the the manager and explain the situation and try to work something out if she didn't feel like she could near you without inhaling dog danger or b) come back later. B sucks a little more but again, if you're that allergic to anything, you're not going to do the backstroke in what makes you violently ill just to prove some stupid point.

So yeah, she's just a entitled ninny who has a thing about dogs being places.

[surreality]

@GangOfDolls This is a lot like my mother's entirely psychosomatic 'allergy' to smoke.

We tested her more than once on it. I'd be in the back seat of the car, flick the lighter, not light the cigarette. Wait.

Sure enough, still with the <hack hack hack put-upon-voice> "My god, aren't you done with that horrible thing yet?"

At which point I would stick the unlit cigarette up between the seats to show her it was unlit.

Took about five instances of this to cure her 'allergy', but... hallelujah, SHE IS HEEEEALED PRRRRRAISE JESUS! <cough> (Or whatever god presides over 'I call bullshit', but I don't know which that is off hand; if there is not one, one should be made up post-haste.)

She is also absolutely from the Mid-West, which makes this especially funny to me.

[WTFE]

I had a schoolmate (I hesitate to say "friend") who had one of those psychosomatic "allergies" to cigarette smoke. At one point, in a lineup for a movie, there was a guy behind us who was smoking. My schoolmate started grousing quietly to us about how disgusting smoking was and how he was allergic and so on and so forth. Not loudly enough, note, for anybody but the two people standing next to him to hear. Meanwhile the smoker was having his own in-depth conversation with a couple of friends; he was obviously not paying attention to the guys in front of him.

Suddenly my schoolmate turned on the guy and in a loud, whiny voice shouted "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUKE ON YOU OR SOMETHING!?" He didn't even reference the cigarette or anything, just those words.

Now picture this situation from the other guy's perspective. You're standing in line for a movie talking to your friends and all of a sudden this crazy asshole shouts at you about puking on you. Is this going to induce you to put out your cigarette?

[Arkandel]

@surreality said in RL Anger:

@GangOfDolls This is a lot like my mother's entirely psychosomatic 'allergy' to smoke.

My mom spent most of her life thinking dogs and cats are inherently dirty and trying to convince me I was allergic to them - it didn't take, I loved pets from when I was a toddler and never stopped.

Anyway, while I was staying with them for a year right after graduation I brought home a stray cat. She was grumbling about that and kept asking me not to but the cat stayed... and eventually she became her cat. To the effect of 'buying and cooking fish for Sasha (which she cleaned of course) because she looked bored of dry food lately".

The cat adored her. She hated 99% of humankind and was a living weapon to all other animals but she loved us, and my mom most of all. When my mom passed away Sasha was in the room with her, as she had been for the majority of the months leading up to it.

[surreality]

@Arkandel We also have a 'this cat, she hates/is terrified of people' cat.

She is the biggest cuddleslut in the world with us, and hides from everyone else.

We adopted her and her sister at 3-5 years old (even the shelter wasn't sure). Nobody could get near the fluffbutt for the months and months they had them. (No one wanted older cats, let alone older cats in a pair, but we saw them and immediately said: "Nope, those are our cats, we'll take 'em!")

...the fluffbutt trills at us, headbonks the hell out of us constantly, and cannot be away from cuddle distance for more than a few hours without wailing piteously and seeking out her people.

Yep. That cat sure hates people all right. (Well, she does. Just not her people. Or maybe she thinks we're also cats; she's cute, but not... especially bright.)

[ThatOneDude]

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

@Cupcake said in RL Anger:

Today, out of nowhere, a woman I have never seen before walks up to me in the middle of the store while he's with me on leash and goes into this lengthy explanation about how she's extremely allergic to dogs and so the only places she can go are restaurants and stores, and could I please stop bringing my dog to the store?

My response would be:

"That's nice, but you have no right to tell me where I can and cannot bring my dog, much as I have no right to tell you where to stick your self-entitled, ugly-ass head. I can recommend you stick it up your ass to prevent us all from having to hear your voice, and can tell you it would be a great favour to the world were you to do so."

Well said but I'm curious what the management would have said if she instead went there to report her complaint? Would it have been the "one" thing that now banned that dog from the store based on this perceived unspoken rule? What gives someone the right to have a dog that isn't a service dog with them everywhere? What of the people with allergies ... They don't matter? I'm more curious about this unspoken rule part because I'm sure if the dog did something like bit a child there would most likely be no mention of said rule from the store right?

[Misadventure]

Given the store had a policy to allow well behave and attended dogs, her only effective approach would be to management. Approaching any one person is just a confrontation that has little effect on her stated needs.

She also needs a run by fruiting (reference).

[Ganymede]

@ThatOneDude said in RL Anger:

Would it have been the "one" thing that now banned that dog from the store based on this perceived unspoken rule?

I regularly go out to eat. I'm allergic to legumes, nuts, and some other things that will kill me if ingested. Is it reasonable for me to demand that all such products are removed from the store and my presence? Is it reasonable for me to demand that all such products are removed from grocery stores at which I frequent?

Going out in public logically requires a person to be prepared to deal with their allergies, if they have them. If I were management, I would tell that one customer to deal with it. Having a dog-friendly store is likely more important to business than the one customer that has a complaint about that policy.

What gives someone the right to have a dog that isn't a service dog with them everywhere?

Nothing.

What of the people with allergies ... They don't matter?

No more than any other customer, I presume.

I'm more curious about this unspoken rule part because I'm sure if the dog did something like bit a child there would most likely be no mention of said rule from the store right?

I guess not? That sounds like an issue between management and their CG / Premises Liability insurance carrier and/or agent.

[Arkandel]

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

I guess not? That sounds like an issue between management and their CG / Premises Liability insurance carrier and/or agent.

IANAL but there are actual laws in many places that explicitly forbid the presence of non-service dogs in certain places where food is sold or served.

There are people less good with hygiene - or manners - than many dogs I know, yet that's still a factor.

[Ganymede]

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

IANAL but there are actual laws in many places that explicitly forbid the presence of non-service dogs in certain places where food is sold or served.

While true, this was not the question that was implied prior. If an establishment wants to act in contravention of the law, that's fine; however, I doubt that a violation of laws forbidding dogs in an establishment that serves foods means that the establishment is per se negligent if a dog allowed therein bites a child.

[ThatGuyThere]

On the topic of allergies, if you have allergies it is on you to avoid them. I am allergic to coconut, I could die if I eat it. It is 100 percent on me to avoid coconut ,ask if it is things etc, It is no other person on this planets job to help me avoid it. I am very thankful when they do, for example a friend is planning to have people over for dinner this evening she asked over a multi-text if there were any food allergies. One of me friends informed her of mine before I replied. I am very thankful for this and expressed that, but my no means was he obligated to do this.
I see an allergy to pet dander or smoke to be the same way it is part of your job as an adult to take care of that sort of thing for yourself.
Now i do think product manufacturers have a duty to not when common allergens on in their products but that seems to be the standard operating procedure these days.
From a business perspective I would consider the factors involved when making a decision most likely going the way that would cause the most sales because you know that is the point of the endeavor.
@Cupcake the woman involved was completely in the wrong trying to tell you what to do. I would ignore her bring the dog in as long as it is alright with the store.
And yes that sort of passive aggression is rampant in the Midwest. Having grown up there i credit/blame it for my tendency towards blunt confrontation. I got so sick of dealing with that sort of crap in my formative years I will not have it now.

[Arkandel]

Maybe I'm playing the devil's advocate here but I wanted to point something else out though, and it's as a long-time dog, cat and moluccan cockatoo (<sigh>) owner.

Not everyone loves animals, not every space has to allow them - or at least not leash-free. There is a park near my house with several "No Dogs Allowed" signs outside which is usually crawling with owners playing catch with their pets, not to mention a second one clearly marked as leash-only which similarly sports several furry critters running around.

This isn't good. People who don't appreciate, are afraid of (or, yes, allergic to) animals there should be some public places they can visit without being triggered. Similarly I'm quite aware one of my dogs isn't very well behaved in the presence of other small dogs, and as such it's stressful when I walk her in the leash-only park and she's approached by free-roamers as that's a fight waiting to happen.

We need to be mindful of other people too.

[Thenomain]

@ThatGuyThere said in RL Anger:

On the topic of allergies, if you have allergies it is on you to avoid them.

What about the laws we have in place to protect people with allergies? Or non-smoking regulations? These things are about the health of the public. I know what you were getting at, but there is clearly an acceptable line in our current society where we're willing to control health choices, mostly if not entirely around the "life or death" level, and these days edging well into the "quality of that life" level.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Thenomain
If I was running a business I would look up the fines for breaking those laws and that would be the factor.
Trust me many bars in the town i live in have found every loophole to public smoking laws to get it to happen on patios etc, one even built a deck for that purpose.
Business owners will put profits firsts 9 times out of every 10.

[Thenomain]

@ThatGuyThere

Absolutely. And a well-behaved, clean dog in a store shouldn't be a big deal.

Just as taking your smoking outside or somewhere else shouldn't be a big deal. I think it's a question as to who is harmed to what degree. Filter through the commons of discussion and viola! We can easier decide who's responsible for what.

Mind you, "the commons of discussion" are a strange beast indeed.

[Ganymede]

@Thenomain said in RL Anger:

What about the laws we have in place to protect people with allergies?

Which laws are those?

Or non-smoking regulations?

You mean, those blatantly unconstitutional regulations that have had no demonstrable effect on smoking or related-cancer rates?

[Cupcake]

Only in relation to my personal experience speaking about my fella specifically:

While there is no such thing as a truly hypoallergenic dog, greyhounds are in the low spectrum for dander. I would have been happy to move if she had asked me to. This allegedly highly allergic woman came within less than three feet of my dog of her own volition.

Any time my dog is outside of my home, he is leashed. He NEVER goes off leash unless we are in a contained space, I never take him to public dog parks (I'll get to why in a moment) and when I take him to the breed only park we go to, he wears a muzzle if there are also other dogs there - who are also wearing muzzles.

My dog has a high prey drive. If it is small and furry and fast - or even just small and fast, he will at minimum stop and stare at it, at worst he will attack it - and he has never tried to pull off the leash to do so. I keep him away from cats, tiny dogs, and small critters, and control the environment strictly with regard to small children or babies. Someday a rabbit will come into our yard and he'll probably leave me a present by the back door - that's fine, but also where I draw the line.

Pretty much anytime I take him out anyplace, someone remarks on how well behaved and quiet he is, including in the store. His breed does not often bark, and are loathe to relieve themselves in dwelling areas (which they tend to identify as "kennels". He also gets a bath every three months and is brushed once a week, sometimes twice.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

@Thenomain said in RL Anger:

What about the laws we have in place to protect people with allergies?

Which laws are those?

I assume (bad on me, I know) that the whole "this stuff is made in a place that does peanuts" is a law and/or regulation. I know like hell that "if someone asks for the detailed breakdown of your food you have to give it to them" is.

Or non-smoking regulations?

You mean, those blatantly unconstitutional regulations that have had no demonstrable effect on smoking or related-cancer rates?

I'm absolutely talking about the extensively tested and considered health regulations concerning second-hand smoke in enclosed spaces, yes.

You know, since you made this political when I was pretty carefully trying not to go there.

[Misadventure]

Cancer is a distraction when discussing second hand smoke.

My friend moved out at 18. At 35, he went in to have his lungs checked. He was asked how many packs a day he smoked currently. He's never smoked.

That is evidence enough for me.