No, I understand why you laughed. But I try to see things beyond just the MU ramifications. That said, if you have the type of staff that's going to be close-minded regarding that sort of thing when the game actually says to do it that way, then you have more problems than that, IMO:
Oh, shut up, @HelloRaptor. I happen to like making shit up. :d
@Arkandel, the one that's 2 hours ahead of EST, which means every PRP and huge scene that starts at 20:00 EST, actually starts at 22:00 my time. Which is why I'm usually just... fading away by the time anything starts to actually happen.
It'll get better when the U.S: hits DST and I'm only ONE hour ahead. But only by one hour.
@Arkandel, I should have it back home if my computer doesn't turn off.
My peeve? I literally fell asleep between your crash and subsequent return, so I missed the climactic ending and didn't get to bash the robot's head in repeatedly. 
I was just so tired by then. It was past midnight and I'd woken up at 6:30am. >.<
You seem to have the ability to judge things absolutely from incomplete data. It's not an ability I envy.
And fine, Kiths didn't always belong to a certain Seeming. But only because you could circumvent that doesn't mean the core concept of Kiths belonging to Seemings isn't true, and it's in fact further strengthened by the Dual Kith Merit costing more if you want an out-of-seeming Kith. Our interpretations differ. This isn't a surprise or even a bad thing. Also, IIRC (which I may not, admittedly) Dual Kith was an optional Merit, which would invalidate it as something integral to the game, regardless of how many people liked it. But again, I may be misremembering.
We have no idea how they're actually going to go about it, how many Kiths there's going to be, or how much of a difference picking a different Seeming for the same Kith is going to make. Ascribing conceptual value to something because of what you call it is silly. So maybe Shadowsouls aren't available as Shadowsouls anymore. That doesn't mean that there won't be something that mirrors or represents the same type of Changeling.
I've never seen Kiths as something static and formal. In fact, no character I have ever played has used Kith names to talk about themselves or anyone else. My Shadowsoul never said, "I'm a Shadowsoul, what did you expect?" Nor did he look at his Fireheart Motleymate and say, "God, you Firehearts, always so cray with the fiyah". To me, Kiths were guidelines as to what your character was in a distilled, mechanical way.
Maybe we differ in that interpretation and that's why I don't see the change as such a huge deal; I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to figure out whatever type of character within the norms of Changeling I want to play in the new system. Not only that, but from what I've read (that is to say, the miniscule amount of information I have), Kiths seem to be pretty simple, so making new ones shouldn't be too difficult.
You seem to be hung up on not being able to buy any sort of Contract you want. Again, from what I've read, there's still going to be universal Contracts and the like. In fact, we don't even really know what Contracts are going to look like, so I'm less than concerned until such a thing becomes clear, because maybe the new structure of Contracts makes your concerns moot.
But I get it. You really don't like 2E. It sucks, but I can understand the sentiment of "they changed it now it sucks". I don't share it, in this instance, just like I don't share your concerns. But I can understand it.
@HelloRaptor said:
@Miss-Demeanor said:
See, I liked that I could take extra Kiths if I wanted a little extra something.
<snip>
So... meh to 2E Changeling. Looks more like they're taking -away- possibilities with the shift in Kith/Seeming rather than opening them up.Agreed. While I'm interested to see how it plays out, the Dual Kith thing seemed to open up a whole world of variation that was kind of fun, if I could get past the victim origin story in Changeling.
I'm still not sure how a change from "Kith A always belongs to Seeming B" to "Kith A is different depending on which Seeming you combine it with" is less varied. Not to mention we don't actually know if they're getting rid of Dual Kiths, or maybe changing it in some way, or keeping it, or whatever.
Anyway!
See, I think he meant the people who want to be playing actual vikings.
@Miss-Demeanor
I find your lack of optimism disengaging. 
Alas.
@Creepy, the Neighborhoods system I've written up for Eldritch is in part geared towards fixing this sort of problem. Besides that, I know how frustrating not being able to change a grid space is even through effort, and @Eerie and I managed to convince @Thenomain to code for us by pitching the game as a place where the players can and should make every effort to change the area.
At the same time, if you're trying to make some gross changes to the area, staff will take notice and use IC resources to try to stop you. Because that's challenging. Because that provides conflict. Because if all you have is a bunch of people running smooth-and-easy PRPs for each other in which they Change [their slice of] the World, what's the point?
Hopefully, people will push forward to help us achieve this sort of gameplay, instead of sitting around and not interacting with what we've built and want to do.
It's a pet peeve of mine when players sit around and have no goals. Plot is important, I absolutely agree; but the best plot often has personal stakes, and for that, the character has to actually, you know, want something.
One of the things that Changeling 2E is going to do, from what's been talked about by the developers in the forums, is change the way Kiths and Seemings works.
As a quick explanation:
Kiths are now at the forefront of your character, while the Seeming influences the Kith. For example, lets say you pick, as your Kith, the Draconic. Your character is a Draconic; that's their Kith. Their Seeming is how they go about being a Draconic. So you might have Draconic Fairest, Draconic Darkling, Draconic Ogre, each with changes in how they go about being draconics, and cheaper access to some powers while being disallowed from obtaining others.
You can find the developer´s thoughts on the subject here. I actually really like the ideas in the developer's outline, which was linked in this forum thread. I only have a slight concern for the way they are pitching their sub-splat (i.e. their M+ variant), and the fact that the main antagonists seem to be Hunstmen who run around hunting Changelings which means there is yet another parallel to Demon (on top of Pacts and Pledges). But this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as I can see a lot of points of contention between the two that separate them (can you imagine what a Changeling might think of a being that makes a deal with you for your "soul" and can then just up and decide to take over your life and identity, and you cease to exist? Yikes).
I really like their take on how Courts will work. It looks like the Seasonal Courts will be mostly an exercise in exemplification in the book, but that Courts are actually unique things that pop up and are based on stories; so you create a society that protects itself by forcing your enemies into the confines of the rules set by the type of story your Court aligns with. Or something.
More information and detail in the links provided!
TL;DR Changeling seems to be working on changing the way you build the character so that you can get exactly what you want without having to futz around with Dual and Triple Kiths. I love it.
@Arkandel said:
@Wizz said:
...What? WoD books, all of them, lay out the setting as written and then tell you "go nuts, take this or leave that." It's not specific to Changeling. The Storyteller system is supposed to be a toolbox.
nWoD on table-top and nWoD on a MU* are different games.
This is a cop-out. They aren't different games, they are different playgroups. The difference is that MUs are much larger than your average tabletop, and if you want a game of a decent size your best bet is to go with the rules as written because if you change anything too much, you might lose a large amount of players. It's a lot easier to convince your five friends you have beers with than the 50 jackasses online who have their own vision of the game.
So they're not different games; they're the same game, played differently due to societal constraints and a need to satisfy a larger amount of people.
@Glitch said:
Honestly though, anything not WoD or some other well-known IP is going to have more of an uphill struggle, particularly original games. Not that I don't think you should stick it out, just noting that original games always have a rougher time converting people who are "used" to other things.
With this in mind, the simpler the system the better. Complex systems are hard to pitch to people who need to learn them just to play a new game.
Yeah, wow. The premise for The Strange is super cool.
Sounds good to me, man. I would solidify how you plan on building the separate realms, if you're letting storytellers do it, the players, staff, etc. And pick a good system. The Cinematic Unisystem is a good system for this, IMO.
The way I am imagining what you are presenting is:
The PCs find a way to travel between Realms that are separated from the "prime" Realm (the one the PCs are from, the "normal" Realm) supernaturally, and each adjacent Realm is different in its own way. They go to these new Realms and have adventures there. Some of them get changed by those adventures, maybe they bring people back from those Realms, whatever. But an organization of people who can travel to these Realms starts to grow, giving your MU license to have more players, more groups.
So really, it's not so much "Supernatural Sliders" as it is "Supernatural Stargate".
@Rook
Yes, what I meant was more in the thematic sense. i.e. Sliders-but-with-supernatural-elements.
So would "Supernatural Sliders" sort of work as a soft-pitch short concept for the game? With the caveat that the characters can come back to the "prime" reality at the end of each plot and aren't stuck in an alternate realm or skipping between alternate realms?
@Arkandel said:
We are having this debates because you specifically asked for input, but ultimately it's up to you - and any game's administration - to make the choices they think are best. It's not the end of the world if some players disagree with any given decision.
Actually, and I am going to admittedly be a bit of a dick here:
<dickery>
We're having this debate because you have strong opinions on Renown that I fell into debating with you on a thread about Sphere Caps and Waiting Lists. I never actually asked for input; in fact, I think the first few times I answered, I ended my post with 'we'll see when the book comes out', or something to that effect.
That doesn't mean I didn't fall right into debating it with you. But that's not why we're having the conversation. If anything, we're having it because I value the community's opinions even while disagreeing with them and am willing to take them into account and discuss them regardless of directly asking for it. Otherwise, I would have just not replied to the topic when it came up.
</dickery>
As for your "who does it benefit?", how about: Limiting Renown spends to IC acts played out strengthens the sense of accomplishment that doing such monumental and storied deeds should come with, and not only helps the player feel proud of the character they're playing (which increases their fun!), but also shows, rather than tells, others what that character is capable of and why they are deserving of that Renown.
@Arkandel, I can just as easily ask "who benefits from ANY sort of regulation as to Experience spending? Who benefits from any regulation in a game at all? Why have rules if someone doesn't benefit from them?"
That's a philosophical question. Who benefits from having wait times to buy things? Etc, etc. It may be a question that you find fundamental when it comes to pondering regulation policy on a game, but at some point you have to decide one way or another.
And you know, sometimes, the answer is 'the game benefits', because those regulations will ensure the people playing are the people who want to play the themes of the game published, with people who share that desire.
That said, I'm not saying the rules for Eldritch will be draconian to the point of driving others away, which I think I have made abundantly clear by repeating it over and over that I want to find a compromise.
If your only reason for eschewing alternate systems is "I don't think that's right," then I don't think you're giving the suggestion due consideration.
I guess you missed the upteen times I mentioned trying to find a solution that achieves a compromise, then.