@Admiral said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:
If the only way you can think of to do your job is to lie to people, even though it's not technically required by the company? You are liar. You are a shitty fucking liar. Period.
Well, there goes my line of work.
@Kestrel said in Separating Art From Artist:
what the fuck
Intellectuals can be very despicable people.
Let’s start with professors. Do you think that they get tenure simply by being present? No, most have had to contribute something of considerable value to their respective universities. And once they get that nugget, they often don’t give a shit about teaching the kids that spend their freedom for a piece of paper. If professionalism is about doing what you’re being paid to do? They aren’t professional.
Then there are lawyers. Oh shit, we spend entire classes teaching about professionalism. In the United States you have to pass an ethics exam. But does being professional or ethical win cases? Does it help you apply leverage to swing the best deals for your clients? Becoming partner is about what you bring to the firm in term of money, not conduct. Dressing down your staff for not doing things you are ultimately responsible for doesn’t make you a professional; it makes you a tyrant.
I highly doubt there is much difference between the US and the UK in such respect, but I could be wrong.
@insomniac7809 said in Separating Art From Artist:
But is it really the case that an employer is required to renew a contract (not terminate an existing one) if they don't care to?
I know of no states that require renewal of a contract of employment by statute or case law, but there are contracts that automatically renew unless there is a termination.
And a company can have a legitimate reason to fire someone for their personal conduct. Who remembers Jared?
You need a legitimate reason to terminate if you want to avoid paying unemployment for the terminated employee too in most jurisdictions. Employment contracts may also be terminated for default.
@Kestrel said in Separating Art From Artist:
So in the US, you can say whatever you want around your colleagues, behave unprofessionally, prove yourself unsuitable for the job you were hired for and not get fired?
You sure can. You may even become partner or obtain tenure doing it.
@Kestrel said in Separating Art From Artist:
This is a freedom to be an arsehole issue.
In the United States, this is a freedom of speech issue.
I am aware of the UK law at issue, and I think the court came down on the correct side (because I think it rejected Forstater's claim). It's not even an interesting argument: Forstater was a jackass, acted like a jackass for a long time, and got kicked for being a jackass. She just had a jackass for an attorney -- there are a lot of them -- who kicked up a hornet's nest because she has money.
But in the United States, your freedom to be an asshole sort of fits under freedom of speech: to-wit, the Westboro Baptist Church.
@Auspice said in Separating Art From Artist:
I know Mark Hamill tweeted something in support of Forester also before he got more details and apologized for his actions.
I can understand that because Hamill is an American actor, rather than a British author. But, also, Hamill is human, but a capable one because he can apologize and lampoon Trump as no other can.
@Derp said in General Video Game Thread:
It's a mixed bag. I was disappointed in it for a Final Fantasy title. A general fantasy title? Sure.
It is entirely possible that my expectations for Final Fantasy entries is lower than yours.
@Derp said in General Video Game Thread:
I played it. Multiple times. I don't hate it enough to not play it. I even waited patiently for the DLC. But I have major complaints.
That's fair.
I liked it a lot, actually. It was very enjoyable to ease into. You can just roam around in the car for a few hours.
@Rinel said in Separating Art From Artist:
Here's the thing, though: it has none. Firstly, freedom of speech in the UK is already a flimsy construct. Secondly, employment tribunals have no precedential authority. Thirdly, the case was exquisitely narrow in scope--whether a person's "gender critical" views constituted a protected category of belief such that it would be unlawful to deny renewal of a contract with her based upon actions she had taken pursuant to this belief (e.g. misgendering coworkers).
I am not saying that the case actually had large consequences other than those involved. Plus, Forstater is a fucking moron that deserved to be sacked, as they say over there. But I do not want to presume that J.K. Rowling knows, or should know, this the same way we legal practitioners do (or would). Freedom of speech is a strong concern for writers, and I appreciate that.
I hasten again to say that I do not believe that Rowling isn't a TERF and that the case against her goes beyond that one tweet, but I simply want to point out that the power of internet hatred, which is often fueled by ignorance, can cause an indiscriminate, uncaring shit-fire.
They have made eleventy billion Final Fantasy games and they can’t be bothered to keep Mass Effect alive?
Balls.
@Jaded said in General Video Game Thread:
TLOU2 got delayed as well. I am wondering if everyone is trying to get a bit of extra shine with some of the new console talk coming out so that they can platform to those when they go on sale.
Probably. Or they are taking a cue from TLOU by pushing it to the limit of the existing system, and then creating a remastered version for the new one.
Because, yes, I have both the PS3 and PS4 aversions.
Also, fuck you EA for not remastering the Mass Effect series.
@bored said in Separating Art From Artist:
You're the lawyer, but I assume the split you're describing between 'this action causes a person to lose their job' and 'this action causes a person to become a victim of subsequent physical violence' is largely a division of the same basic concept into civil and criminal realms, right?
I split the two situations based on observation.
Kim Davis, the duly-elected Rowan County, KY clerk, refused to issue marriage licenses for gay couples after the Obergefell decision and defied a court order directing her to issue marriage licenses. Later, she was unseated by a Democrat challenger in an 2018 election for her seat. Many attribute her unseating to the very public campaign shaming her for her decision, which she made on religious grounds. Few people I know cry about this.
Pamela Taylor became notorious when it came out that she had referred to former First Lady Michelle Obama as an "ape". She was forced to leave her public job as director of the Clay County, WV Development Corporation. That county's mayor, Beverly Whaling, resigned after it became public that she had liked Ms. Taylor's comment. Ms. Taylor was later convicted of embezzling FEMA funds.
Ryan Roy marched in Charlottsville, VA. When he was discovered, he lost his job with his employer -- an Uno's Pizzeria and Grill in South Burlington, VT. When asked about his very public white supremacist comments, he said: "There's nothing wrong with white people standing up for their own interest and identity."
It sounds like we're all okay with this, right? We may also be somewhat pleased when Richard Spencer gets punched in the face. Frankly, I think this is because it's Richard Spencer, but his views certainly don't help. (I also advocate for the public punching of Curt Schilling.)
If I have an objection to what is being called "cancel culture," it is shaming other people for having an unaligned view. While many people have harped on J.K. Rowling for her support of Maya Forstater, I believe I understand why she did so, and it has little to do with whether her position in her single post is biased against the transgendered. (In saying this, I mean to say that she very well may have said other TERF-y things, that you are welcome to your opinion regardless, and that my comment is only directed to the tweet made at 0757 on Dec. 19, 2019.)
But no one that I know (personally) seems to care about why J.K. Rowling would have an even iota of interest in the Forstater case (which is an interesting case, I suppose, but wholly inapplicable to anyone outside of the UK, legally-speaking). They have focused on what she said, not why she said it. No one (I know) seems to care what the implications of the Forstater case may have on freedom of speech in the UK, an issue that a British author would have every reason to be concerned with.
So, as it may apply to the topic of separating art from the artist, I think we ought to be concerned about that little part of us which delights when "evil" gets its comeuppance.
It was a question of whether it was acceptable behavior.
I mean, I understand from the discussion that we are talking about shaming. Shaming people for their bad behavior. And if that means affecting their life so be it.
The line I see is whether the shaming leads to physical consequences. It is clearly wrong if someone is assaulted or killed as a result of exposing them.
But losing one’s job? Some people think that the truth hurts. But it also hurts children who depend on that job. Does the morality depend on what a person is being shamed for?
I guess that’s why I err on the side of not shaming.
Can we play this out?
Suppose someone attends a KKK rally and gets spotted. The spotter uses Facebook to track down the person’s name and employer, and then posts it publicly. The attendee then gets fired from their employer.
Is this doxxing?
Ted "Brotosaurus" Lawyerstein, Esquire
641 Castlewood Lane
Deerfield, IL 60015
Dear Mr. Lawyerstein,
We are writing to notify you that we received a letter dated January 16, 2020 from your office. I feel you should be aware that some asshole is signing your name to stupid letters.
Yours Truly,
Erin "Trash Panda" Hayes, Esquire
Dewey, Cheathem, Howe & Weinstein, PLL
3159 W. 11th St.
Cleveland, OH 44109
@insomniac7809 said in Separating Art From Artist:
Yeah, sometimes a work ages like milk behind a radiator.
Or a hairstyle from the 80s.
Or fashion from the 80s.
Music from the --
-- you know what, fuck that, Transformers are awesome.
@Auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:
And unfortunately, the new hippy definition of 'self-care' would support her behavior. 'Oh you get stressed out by doing this? Then don't do it! Do something relaxing and fun! #treatyoself'
It's a good thing she's not that fucking stupid.
@silverfox said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:
"Well what are you doing for yourself? How are you managing your stress? What else can you be doing for "self care?" Because it's a bullshit question.
It's your peeve. I concur with you on all of your points as it relates to work. That said, "self-care" is an issue for professionals because some, if not most, are notoriously bad at it.
Like my partner, for example. She's a physician's assistant. She's a former lawyer. She's a SCL graduate from one of the best schools in Ohio. But for all of those brains, she also neglects to set appointments to check her electrolyte levels periodically, and that neglect has put her into the hospital at least twice in the past two years. It is a point of constant frustration for me because bitch you a medical professional and don't check yo own damn levels, but lecture people on how they need to take better care of themselves?
I mean, ahem, physician heal thyself or some other pusillanimous shit.
Purportedly us lawyers suffer from heavy compassion fatigue. We have a high suicide rate and rate of substance abuse and/or compulsive behavior. My self-care for stress may be more damaging than the stress itself.
But, you're right. Self-care isn't always the solution, unless self-care includes firebombing government agencies, politicians, and other folks that seem bent on fucking the education system as hard as possible.
@Kestrel said in Separating Art From Artist:
We should hold racists accountable for their racisms and I don't think minimising the occurrences of it has a civil place in a discussion about separating art from artists.
Some of the most beloved authors were demonstrably racist. Dr. Seuss comes to mind. Yet there is an undeniable charm in many of his not-racist works.
He is dead and is mostly known as a successful, inspiring children's author. And I am willing to let people ignore his racist side because that part of him, to me, is more important.
No matter who said it, a noble spirit embiggens even the smallest person.