Posts made by Ghost

@Arkandel I get the time commitment/investment. I do. Maybe it's just me but MUs come and go so much that I've always approached MUs and characters are temporary time sinks, anyway. You dont keep a MU, you rent one.

And there are lots of other factors. Once I was RPing IC-relationship stuff with the RL wife of another player on the same game. One night she told me "He's not comfortable with it, can we stop?"

Me:

Edit: LOLOL WRONG GIF BUT FUNNY. THIS GIF BELOW WAS WHAT I MEANT:

But in other cases I've tried to be vague against onslaught of pages about what I feel and what I like and what my promise to them is. My answer was basically "dont know but let's keep role-playing" (because arranging oocly the future of an IC relationship always felt weirdly OOC invasive to me. That and I like surprises. I cant predict where my char will be in 2 weeks). After plenty of clingy and uncomfortable OOC pages I'd be dead-set in RUN AWAAAAAY mode (why? Because I dont want any real estate in other player's well being to the point that feeling like an unrequited proxy relationship always skeeves me out) and politely try to work out through pages an exit from the IC relationship. I'd say after 20 years of MU experience I have a 30% success rate in doing that WITHOUT accusations of being a cheater, a liar, a manwhore, a harem builder, etc etc etc

But, really, what's the better play? Telling a pushy player with a history of OOC accusations that you're making them uncomfortable and need to GTFO of an IC relationship, or just rolling with it ICly.

@Auspice and I have a long history of her going "Dude, I warned you. You gotta stick to people you know" with me replying "I KNOW BUT... I should just be able to RP with whoever comes along but but but..."

My stance is that for a number of people these IC relationships are very real extensions of their OOC insecurities, unfulfilled desires, and personal fantasies. It's risky. It's messy. It's also why the 3-4 people I've connected with over the years with similar stories and "bad reps" because repeat offenders of the "I made it out to be about them being a bad person to get ahead of it being about me being psychotic or clingy" have led me to immediately question the very loud, very vocal, very demanding accusers a bit more. The sudden, knee-jerk "how dare you accuse the victim" has been used as a shield wall more than once, and it's just...so fucking messy.

Writers want plot hooks and story. Online dating uses a whole different set of words, accusations, and tactics.

@RDC

P.s. you got me. Well played.

@Seamus

@Auspice A lot of that success, i think, is attributed to the fact that it remained IC. All we really wanted was to be relevant in story and just being cool with each other about it. When you said "I think she's gonna cheat" I was like:

And the more you know the other person isn't hanging on so tightly to things being a certain way, the more comfortable it is. I felt that had I said "I'm gonna do this other thing for a bit" that you would have said:

...Without attacking me through OOC bullshit, whispers, etc.

Why? Because it wasnt an OOC relationship. The more you acknowledge that it's just about story and hanging out, the more it's actually writing a story. You were free to RP where you felt the story took you and I figured either way I'd find RP elsewhere.

I've seen a lot of OOC angst and feelings involving IC relationships and the more I saw it, the more I wanted to avoid RP with certain people (and as @Derp has mentioned, regular accusation scandal players).

The tighter you grip, the less oxygen there is.

Edit: So I maintain my "line in the sand" stance. WRITERS get disappointed and just want it to be a part of the story. ONLINE DATING gets angry and turns it into public, loud, jilted drama.

@Auspice said in The ethics of IC romance, TS, etc:

And for all that he talks a big game now, he got anxious back then. But we're talking something that was 7 years ago so y'know what? I 100% believe he's changed and grown and gone through shit since then (I know I have!). But back then I'd totally get anxious, uncertain pages some days of 'Hey, is everything okay? She's not leaving him, is she?' They never felt CLINGY or NEEDY or like OOC BOUNDARIES were crossed, but more like weather checks. And he might feel called out right now (sorry boo), but I share this because I never felt bad responding to them.

Hah, nah I dont feel called out. IIRC you were cool with being cautious and TBH IIRC my motivation for asking whether or not your game plan for the character sticking on the train with my PC was more related to whether or not I should have been hunting down other RP or avoiding kicking things off that would have cut off that avenue. I have a bad track record for making IC choices resulting in OOC heat that by that point I'd learned to be more cautious.

Either way, if your character wants to fuck around? Cool. It ain't my dick. All I really care about is that the story keeps going, even if it's ICly "omfg I hate you for reverse cowgirl with my neighbor".

I make characters who aren't me and try to let them be who they are, so its the inability to ICly be flawed, messy, and conflicting without it being taken on some animism level that I am that person that gets me.

We had some good times. Success story. High five. Zero RL tension. Hooray for writing fucking stories.

@Arkandel theres a call for you on line 2. He says he's Kenny Loggins and something about the Danger Zone?

• Each player is responsible for seeking out, partaking in, and choosing where and when to involve their character in roleplay. IC decisions need to be dealt with ICly.
• If an IC relationship requires OOC promises, personal details about the player, details on a player's ooc fetishes, preferences, or kinks involves feelings of jealousy or need for closure, and if PC falling out of IC monogamy is not handled ICly but as an OOC issue...then it's not an IC relationship. It's online dating with sock puppets and cybersex.

Let's do this.

On the plus side, CP2077 is slated for April and if BL2 comes out 3-4 months later, then I won't have to choose my favorite child between BL2 (was March) and CP2077 (April). This way I can play out CP for a while.

And ohmygod I will go full "Wesley Snipes in New Jack City" on anyone who tells me today that CP is delayed, too

@Jaded said in General Video Game Thread:

@Ghost said in General Video Game Thread:

@Auspice said in General Video Game Thread:

@Ghost

they delayed it to make it a better game.
look it'll still be out in a shorter timeframe than anything Onyx Path ever does.

LALALALALALA SORRY CANT HEAR YOU IM NOT BRUCE WILLIS IN SIXTH SENSE

Uh. Wasn't Bruce Willis the dead guy? Wouldn't you have to be the kid?

YOURE FIRED TOO OMG YES IM HALEY JOEL OSMENT FKINHELL
(fakerage)

@Auspice said in All Our Heroes:

So what this comes down to is:

How much responsibility is on the PC leader to weather check or make it clear between opinion and law?
How much responsibility is on players to make sure they always play right and are as opinionated as they'd be IRL, even though we all have that desire to fit in (and not risk OOC ire from players/Staff)?
Is there a safe/healthy way to find a middle ground and what is it?

My two cents.

Due to the communal/ooc/MSB facets of MU, I think the following statements can be considered (mostly?) true and there's wisdom in considering them:

1. Players of leader PCs want to set direction and policy, and often feel jilted when PCs choose against their decisions
2. Players who want to be in good with leadership (leadership PC is staff or friends of, an OOC clique, or good old-fashion bein' a sycophant) will often play and police the desires of a leadership PC to stay on the side of "being included and not being excluded for doing something different"
3. Often, the decision to not follow IC leadership or be allowed to be led is not handed as an IC issue. The OOC factor is often considered and there is sometimes an unspoken "be with the program or be ignored" on an OOC-level, and failure to follow IC leadership (with IC ramifications) tends to be very difficult to manage: players run off, avoid RP, create their own refugee MUs.

In the end (broken record, here) the only real workable answer I can find is to keep it IC. If leadership wants something your PC doesn't want? RP that. If a large number of people agree? Use IC means to overthrow the leadership. I think the OOC awkward comes from the fact that leadership roles and/or who plays them are often staff-assisted ways to control plot, and thus the leaders have "plot armor" on both an IC/OOC level. So, to go against the leadership then becomes going against staff's wants and becoming a "problem player", despite the fact that IC deposition of leadership, punishment, or changes in regime are often very feasible IC responses. Because of this it's very reasonable for players to assume that doing what the leadership says will result in being included in the best RP.

So the root of the issue becomes "Are leader PCs considered the IC implementation of staff ruling, and to what degree do leaders need to be followed? Can they be removed? How KEEPIN IT IC is the game, really?" Because, if everything's IC, then there should be no OOC angst.

@Admiral said in Dark Ages Vampire -- Terra Mariana:

I would enjoy this game but I am a giant history nerd and I think a historical game like this that isn't 100% ACCURATE TO MY EXACT AND NO DOUBT WRONG STANDARDS would trigger me.

So what you're saying is that you're a "Knights had shotguns" denier. Tsk.

Non-jokey point: I actually had the pleasure of playing a Dark ages vampire TT game with a GM who was a nerd for Dark Ages history, and it was quite fun. The detail he put into it was glorious, right on down to the Nosferatu ghouls who worked with the noxious tanning chemicals at the tanneries on the edge of the hamlet.

@Auspice said in General Video Game Thread:

@Ghost

they delayed it to make it a better game.
look it'll still be out in a shorter timeframe than anything Onyx Path ever does.

LALALALALALA SORRY CANT HEAR YOU IM NOT BRUCE WILLIS IN SIXTH SENSE

@Auspice said in General Video Game Thread:

Bloodlines 2 is getting delayed.

I mean, for understandable reasons, but I can still express a brief

I kind of hate you right now for posting this. It's all your fault.

What? Ghost "Mister V5 fanboy" isn't okay with the V5-based Bloodlines 2 being delayed??? You did this. It's all your fault. Fuuuuuck

Seriously, its not like I'm old but when it comes to stuff like release dates these days I kind of mentally check off a "try not to die before March 2020 because Bloodlines 2" note in my head.

You're fuckin fired.

Update: "Delayed until sometime later in the year" OMFGFUCKYOUAUSPICE

Everyone is dead to me for the next 30 minutes.

@Aria said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Why do I try to be nice to them?

Because we never know how long we get them, and despite them being a pain in the assholes I love them.

I say this to myself every time my dad does his pain in the assholes stuff, too.

Something to think about.

Rarely when I've been told by someone "how horrible" someone is, it's rarely in the third person. I've heard a lot of stuff from bestiality fetishes to who is a cuckold to who fucked who in RL. Is it necessary to share details like those? No. It's often in the "I saw this" or "the bad person said this to me, but I don't have a log". When mean people share other people's personal business or use the guise of being a gatekeeper to keep bad actors out of the hobby to be spiteful, they rarely speak in terms of 3rd party evidence.

That's why the social commodity in play has always been reputation. Most people paying attention are well aware that most of these cases don't involve evidence, but often involve reliability. Which is why most of these attacks are personality or reputational in nature. If you attack someone's ability to plead their own case, you can effectively bully them out of finding roleplay or defending themselves.

Which routes back to the OPs point.

The hunt for the "bad actor" is constant and there's a lot of personal information (true or not), assumptions of intent (true or not), and accusations (true or not) that some people simply wield out of good faith. The task at hand is to break down these behaviors to minimize damage to innocent people and maintain neutrality. You gotta see it for what it is when it comes down the line. The hunt for the 'bad actor' is often the exact tactic used to try to force innocent people out of the hobby. I've seen it happen. Plenty of times.

So back to OP, this kind of fuckery is a problem. What's the right answer? Whistleblow on people whispering "so and so does this in rl and fucked so and so and once asked me to roleplay as a dog fucking them" stuff to halt the bullying at its root?

It all comes down to being a good person. Pledge to it. Be cool with others. That constant sense of being on guard and ready to preemptively attack someone's reputation to protect your own is something this hobby needs less of.

@Wretched said in ITT: Names You Always See:

@Tinuviel I just name my PC's after Sesame Street Characters.

Dude I KNEW you were Maria that one time.

@Trix said in Mobbing in Text Games:

How can we not join 'mobs' and better pinpoint the actual person(s) being an issue? What other things can we think of here?

Been giving this some more thought.

I think the first step is to really understand the concept that drives a lot of this. I personally think it's: "I need an escape, I want to have fun, and I don't want people to negatively impact my efforts to find it."

We tend to see a lot of sleuthing to determine intent, and that's based on a culture of dishonesty and lack of communication. Some people overshare their personal details, which ironically then becomes the very information that leads to accusations of sanity and assumptions of mental status. There's a whole lot of judgment being flung about, and in many cases the most judgmental of others are also the most thin-skinned to judgment of themselves.

Not everyone is ethical about their approach to this, but in the end a lot of the finger-pointing about intent and who is or isn't a bad actor seems to come down to "I have identified this person as a roadblock to my enjoyment of the hobby, and thus they are a problem". Some players whisper and make up stories to result in others being shunned to their benefit, but in my experience very few are actually deserving of that kind of treatment. Lots of people share other people's personal information. Ive been told by 3rd parties of 1 or 2 regular posters on this site who have dogfucking fetishes. Pretty sure that was petty bullshit.

So, I've said it before, but I think acknowledging the reason for this negative behavior is one of the first steps, as is identifying where you have partaken in it. Also, as @surreality said (shes right) that the majority of dogpiling actually takes place against people of differing opinions who really aren't bad people, but some just seem to love attacking others for not being a walking automaton copy of their own personalities. Cliques love clones, and I think some people feel a little threatened when they come across people who disagree with their outlook on things because it could impact their ability to enjoy the hobby. It's turf is some cases that is fought over, and in a lot of cases it's really unnecessary or trite stuff.

Honestly, I think the best thing people can do is just fucking let go. The iron grip some people have on aversion to differences of opinion or differences on story content is squeezing the blood out of the social collective in the hobby. The social climate isn't going to get better until some of the more brutal personalities stop assuming their intentions are so noble when the "justified" behavior is anything but.

This is why my stance for some time has been "Talk here all you want, but dont carry who you are here to your game. The animal farm is in effect."

@Trix Good approach, and I'm glad to see a term applied to the behavior you're mentioning.

I think a lot happens in these communities under the guise of trying to keep away "problem players", but there arent actually a large number of problem players. The greater number is "people I dont like" or "people who inconvenience me" or "people who annoy me", and I think that this kind of harassment is absolutely in play to try to bully people out of sharing the same space.

Having said that I think you're going to find a number of people throwing bricks at you or this idea, despite how maturely and inoffensibly posted, in a way that may fail the self awareness check required to realize that by doing so they are proving the existence of said form of harassment.

In answer to your question: I think games need to better enforce off-server bullying taken to MSB or other venues, and policies promoting good behavior in solving disagreements and watch-dogging of slander/hyperbole. I think that sensationalism and exaggeration of issues are often plied as ways to attack others, and these kinds of behaviors arent discussed nearly enough.

Good luck.

@Tinuviel Exactly

Not that I'm the best IT guy ever, but the all but 1 guy on my team are Bad News Bears level IT guys.

The Miami Dolphins suck.

If a WW2 Russian Commissar appoints you to coach the Dolphins and says "Stalin is watching, you don't want to fail at this and live in shame" you're better off shooting yourself in the head.

My job is literally to write code, automate IT deployments, and to independently manage/orchestrate enterprise level code deployments across multiple teams.

I have one guy who has been on the job for 6 years who has never even attempted scripting, doesn't write plans, and makes the developers sit with him to walk him through the code release during the release because he doesnt want to write plans. I didn't hire him, and if the team needs to evolve we need to get rid of him and replace him with someone who wants to do the job.

That is what I would inherit. Fuck that.

Salin