@RDC I think the best option is to have 2 'forms' of CGen for a M&M game.
First, the 'classic' freeform point-build.
Second, code in the new archetype CGen system from the newer Basic & Deluxe Hero's Handbook. You have a quick, nicely varied, effective PL10 character within minutes. Setup a BG, finger entries, and descriptions, and you're good to go.
@arkandel You've got the gist of the issue. Same thing with Batman & Superman. Imagine the reaction when you tell Superman 'Hey, mind not wiping the field clear of bad guys before I get a chance to do something?' Part of the responsibility of playing a powerful character in a collaborative medium is making a conscious effort to share the spotlight.
So, for those unfamiliar with M&M's PL system, it sort of acts as a combination of guide for how many points your character is built on & and upper limit check for 1) your To Hit bonuses & amount of damage you do with the attack, 2) your defensive bonuses and the amount of resistance to damage you have, 3) Fortitude & Will saves (for resisting physical & mental effects), and 4) Attribute & Skill bonus.
Example: If you have a PL 10, your Attack Bonus and Damage for any attack is capped at 2 * PL, so a total of 20. That means you can have a Strength of 10 and a total Attack Bonus on Unarmed Attacks of 10, or a Strength of 12 and a total Attack Bonus of 8, or a Strength of 6 and a total Attack Bonus of 14; any combination that totals 20. Averaging out (Strength 10, Attack Bonus 10) means that at that Strength level, your character can lift 25 Tons. With Strength 12, you can lift 100 tons (each point is double the value before it). At Strength 6 (minor superhuman level), your character can lift 3,200 lbs. So, the system ensures that your character doesn't have an overwhelming attack with lots of damage and lots of Attack Bonus. Same with the Defense/Toughness cap; it ensures that the better you can dodge an attack, the less capable you are at shrugging off the attacks that do land.
The other thing is the 'scale' of each PL. The general 'starting point' for M&M is PL 10. That gives you a character on par with (using the DC characters) Booster Gold, Cyborg, Batgirl, Beast Boy, Kid Flash, Mera, Cosmic Boy, and Brainiac 5. So, an average member of the Titans or Legion of Superheroes. Superman & Wonder Woman are at PL 15, Robin & Arsenal are at PL 8
Now, mentioned in my earlier post above, the new Quickstart CGen for M&M speeds up the process and simplifies it for players new to the system by a phenomenal degree. It's actually quicker to make a M&M character using Quickstart than it is to make a character in 5e D&D now, IMO. So right there, you're lowering the learning curve of the system by giving new players a highly accessible way of creating an effective character and letting them see what the values mean through gameplay experience, rather than having to read through the rules and make the calculations themselves.
Finally (sorry for the length here), ideas from my own long-gestating plans for an M&M OC game in regards to CGen:
-Players are limited to a maximum of 1 PL 14 character, 2 PL 12 characters, and 4 characters of PL 10 or less; total of 7 alts. If a character reaches PL 12 or 14 through experience and the player already has the maximum number for that slot, they need to drop one of the characters or put one in storage. I think this allows for a good balance between maximum number of alts and room for character growth.
-Players are limited to 1 Legacy Character and 1 Homage character. The Homage character is fairly obviously based off of a major Comics character, but has some unique changes to make them slightly distinct. A Legacy character has some form of heroic legacy tied to them; either the Legacy has been handed down to them (Captain America passing on the shield and name to...) or they're starting a Legacy that's defined by the player getting to craft specific lore around their character (Atlantis, Amazons, Super Soldier programs, alien species, mystic traditions, 'fictional' nations, ect.).
Sign me the eff up for this. Seriously, it's a fantastic idea and take on both L&L and Supers.
@Arkandel I totally get what you and @ZombieGenesis are saying here; I even agree to an extent. My opinion is just that no matter what system is used, someone is going to come along and abuse the Hell out of it, because that's their thing. Not necessarily doing it so that they have a massive advantage over others, but because of the challenge of the build. Even if it doesn't make logical sense, it's a challenge that they engage in, a puzzle to solve. There's a thread on an M&M Facebook page right now about 'how to build Gambit at PL 5'. Most of us are going '....Why?', but that's the challenge and attraction for that player; how to build a character he enjoys with sub-optimal limitations placed on it.
I also get what you're saying about 'wasting plot'. But, strictly my own opinion, comics and superheroes aren't as 'plug and play' for plots in the same way, say, a fantasy RPG or science-fiction RPG, or WoD. Comics & Superhero plots are not solely defined by their scale/power level, but by the villain behind the plot, and Supervillains tend to stick to one hero or group the majority of the time. The Fantastic Four go up against Dr. Doom all the time because of that initial point of contact between Reed and Victor in college, which has blossomed into rivalry. There's no logical reason why the Avengers don't square off against Doom and his latest plan to conquer Earth/the Universe/Whatever, but there's not as much tension, history, and connection there, so it's a rare occurrence. Same with Magneto & the X-Men. Even after Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were in the Avengers and discovered he's their father, Magneto is mostly the X-Men's foe to deal with. In other games, you can have personal vendettas between protagonist & antagonist, sure. But mostly, you have a generalized situation with an all-purpose Antagonist/Villain/Challenge because you don't know which players are showing up to the Event.
And, again IMO, this is another point in the favor of an OC's super game over an FC game: no established relationships going back decades of comics history, either between protagonists or between a protagonist & antagonist. It's a clean slate. So, your Dr. Doom expy can be a full-on global threat fought by whatever hero group happens to be on hand. Your metahuman supremacist is fair game for any group to foil, rather than just one particular group of metahumans trying to show a positive front to humanity that they're not all threats and would-be conquerors.
In regards to disparate levels of power being more lethal to less 'experienced' characters, that's true. But, nowhere does it say that the less-powerful characters are required to square off against the Big Bad directly. Time and again, the Justice League face Darkseid. Batman is completely outgunned by a character who is more powerful than the team's heavy hitters of Superman and Wonder Woman. But, Batman still either wins, or contributes to the group win. He takes down Paradeamons that are slightly more powerful than him but still manageable so that the big guns aren't swarmed while concentrating on Darkseid. He feints and uses attacks that have no chance of damaging Darkseid, but open him up to other attacks from teammates that can do real damage. He stealths off and attaches explosives to Darkseid's stockpile of planet-destroying artillery, then threatens Darkseid into ending the fight and giving up, or having Apokalypse blown to atoms.
In other words, Batman's player knows his character's limitations in a fight and figures out how to contribute accordingly.
The same goes in the opposite direction: the hero that's way overpowered for the situation/event. GM's/Event runners can use distractions to prevent the Kryptonian from wrapping up a scene in a single round. Superman or Thor shows up to stop a bank robbery; gang leader says something to the effect of 'Boss thought you'd show up. So we took precautions..' then activates a series of explosions on a bridge, forcing the OP character to save lives instead of bust some easy skulls. A stray blast sets off an explosion and the OP character has to concentrate on rescues & evacuations & crisis management while the others fight. Or, the 'precaution' that the bank robbers take is a more appropriate powered thug/villain (like Rhino) bursting out of a nearby van they were waiting in just in case Superman/Thor tried to stop the robbery; the OP character now has an appropriate challenge to be focused on while the others deal with the robbers and maybe help with the new bruiser. Is it as satisfying? Depends on the player. When I've played Kryptonians on freeform games, I've voluntarily taken my character out of the battle by these methods so that the other heroes in the event/scene get equal time to shine.
Anyways, back to the topic at hand L&L settings. Apologies for starting us on that tangent....
Again, I'm going to put forth the AD&D 2e Birthright setting. PC's are/can be Blooded Scions, inheritors of a Divine Bloodline that gives them special abilities as well as connect them to the land. It's not the standard AD&D murderhobo campaign. It's focused around politics, intrigue, empire building, strategic combat maneuvering, a bit of traditional dungeon delving...
And a pinch of hunting down other Blooded Scions, killing them, and sucking out their divine power to increase your own, Highlander style.
Several 5e homebrew conversion rules are available. Minor tweeks needed to overcome the communication/travel distances between the central 'Imperial City' and the scattered home provinces the PC's are in charge of. Other than that, this has a fantastic amount of potential.I've always thought tht Birthright was a concept ahead of it's time, just missing out by 10 years on the social media revolution that would have really made this setting shine.
@vaermithrax said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:
What if Pathfinder kingdom-building in a persistent game-world, with time acceleration for one kingdom-building turn (one month) turned up to per-week? Players would form their own principalities and start building out. Civilization meets D&D?
The Birthright setting for 2nd Edition D&D is pretty much tailor made for this. And there's already a couple of fan conversions to 3E, so converting to Pathfinder wouldn't be difficult.
Pros
-System for 'Domain Turns' that involve various aspects of ruling, including espionage on other Domains, boosting the morale of your territory through fairs and festivals, diplomacy, military actions, and straight up taking the month off to go adventuring.
-Predefined world with dozens of domains available for PC's to rule/control, interesting takes on the 'stock' fantasy races (elves, dwarves, & halflings), multiple human cultures (Britton, Norse, Germanic Hansiatic guilds, Russo-Hun, and Moorish), Epic magic, heavy Arthurian Cycle influence (the Land and the King are bound), and lots of Epic Monsters to face at higher levels.
-Built in meta-theme of restoring/rebuilding a faded Empire (or creating a whole new one) through unification or conquest of other Domains.
-Empire building beyond physical territory rulership; a PC can build a Trading Guild dynasty, a Thieve's Guild that spans the continent, unification of all the Temples dedicated to a particular God/Goddess into a single Church, etc.
Cons:
-almost too much to choose from in regards to where to focus the game and prevent 'scattering'
-Staff heavy requirement, essentially 1 Staff member per Domain needed for oversight, running Events, and co-ordination.
It's very doable, but requires a lot of planning and dedication. Starting off with the Southern Coast area of the continent gives you 6 Player Domains (each with multiple options for gaining control/rulership points, such as Temples, Magic Sources, Guilds, etc.), and 1 NPC Domain ruled by a Monsterous threat to the area. Far more than enough to launch a Mush with plenty of room for growth and expansion for years to come.
@misadventure said in Alternative Lords & Ladies Settings:
@pacha Too far for me. At that point, you may as well just make the next generation by nomination, or merit, unless the parents are supposed to play a major role in training so as to pass on their expertise (as opposed to just raising someone in privilege and hoping they have the personality to become good at whatever is used to determine merit for leadership).
Thats just me.
If you take out the family aspects to any major degree you may as well switch to Guilds or Corporations as your model.
New idea: Cyberpunk L&L
@Sparks Funny thing...I've sort of been thinking along that line recently as well. Maybe it's just Season 3 of Stranger Things having an impact...
But, two ideas to throw into the ring here....
Occult Espionage. Sort of like the BRPD of Hellboy, only all humans fighting occult organizations; no 'monsters on our side' option. I've been thinking about modifying Top Secret: NWO for this theme in TT, since it's a very narrative-based system.
Cthulhu Tech. For those unfamiliar with the game, it takes the Cthulhu mythos and puts it in a near future, anime setting that combines a couple of story fronts. You have an overt war front, with humans piloting both mechanical & biotech Mechs against invading Mi-Go forces and Mechs (sort of an Evangelion feel). And you have a covert war front, with characters going after secret societies attacking humanity from within; traditional Call of Cthulhu investigator stories amped up with some Bio-Booster Armor Guyver action as some investigators are merged with monsters that they can transform into.
@lotherio Nope. Just made the name up. The general idea is that it's a sort of 'Air Force One', that managed to get the survivors of a Royal Family out as a rival House enacted a coup with Imperial backing. The ship itself is a Nebulon-B (the Medical Frigate at the end of Empire Strikes Back), so it's a decent sized ship with lots of crew/character possibilities without being so huge to become unwieldy, like a MC-80 (the Rebel cruisers from Return of the Jedi). Also has facilities for a couple shuttles or Stock Light Freighters, and carries 2 squadrons of starfighters (12 fighters to a squadron). So, a manageable size to build a game around.
@Ghost Yeah. Although I think WildFire (publisher) is dissolved/out of business now. And I have all the books on PDF. So coding in all the splat and keeping it in a password protected game probably isn't going to be problematic.
@jennkryst said in MUs That We Would Love To Make (But Won't):
@betternow said in MUs That We Would Love To Make (But Won't):
No Jedi.
Actually, the secret to Star Wars MUs is to say 'you can earn a force user character, impress us' and then watch as everyone trips over themselves to get one of the limited space-wiznerd slots. And of course, only give them out to the people whomst are lewd instead.
Because as we all know, the most important attribute for a Force-user, next to a high midi-chlorian count, is a high lewd count.
@Bad-at-Lurking said in A fully OC supers MU:
I am deeply interested in an OC game because I like making my own superheroes. Loved it even when I had to do algebra to make a character back in the original Villains and Vigilante days.
Also, and there is no nice way to put this, OC games have fewer creepy dudes playing lesbian Emma Frost or gay harem-having Superboy, just because the fan wank material isn't there. (And this isn't me saying I think playing those characters as LGBTQ is wrong, playing them as sex dolls isn't even wrong. But it always comes across as desperately unpleasant to anybody who doesn't share that same sexual interest in those characters.)
Then there was Hero's Dreams...
-Superboy clonecest with Match
-Impulse clonecest with whatever his evil clone is
-Alex Powers making out with Lor-Zod (both were 11 y.o.)
Lots of fetishes get put on display in Supers games.
@tiredewok said in MUs That We Would Love To Make (But Won't):
Count me in for the magic using sexy times!
Does someone need to post the clip from Drawn Together of Foxxy Love with her lightsaber?
@Sparks A Nebulon-B frigate is tailor made for this concept. And the canon has been adjusted so that they've been in service since a few years after the Clone Wars ended and were a popular ship base for Alliance cells in the early days of the Galactic Civil War
@Lithium
There's a couple of other supers game systems out there.
DC Universe: the last game from West End before they completely folded, it's the modified D6 system adapted for supeheroes. Not really sucessfully...
Marvel Heroic Roleplaying: Margaret Weiss Production's recent entry. Has some interesting dice and narrative mechanics, but no chargen, as far as I remember.
Cypher System: new universal game system from Monte Cook using the system from Numeria and The Strange. Simple dice mechanics,deceptively simple char gen (in a good way).
Abberant: White Wolf's superhero game. Storyteller system and easy enough. My only real problem with it was the narrow 1-5 trait range.
In the end, I agree with you that M&M is the best overall mixture of ease of play and complexity.
@ZombieGenesis Speaking only for myself, I haven't delved into Storypath enough to say yay or nay on it (I've got Scion 2e and Trinity Continuum so far)
But, I know there's already code for Aberrant 1e out there, including C-Gen, from the old Capes & Stars MU that used it. It would be a matter of tracking down and adapting it to Ares, but you don't have to necessarily re-invent the wheel from scratch, so to speak.
Still, I'm up for either 1e or 2e; Aberrant was a fantastic setting for metahuman gaming, and I'd love to dive back into it.
I agree that there's certain levels of egregiousness when it comes to the actions and poses of other players. The past tense thing...annoying, but not really worth getting upset about, IMO. Themebreaking...again it depends on the level and the experiences you have with the player. If someone's seriously breaking theme and responds to a gentle reminder with 'WhatEVA! I do what I want!', yeah, that's an issue there.
You do have to know which battles to fight, though. If there are other people in the scene that are cool with it or don't seem to want to point it out, it may not be worth choosing that particular hill to die on. For example: the worst bit of themebreaking I ever encountered was on one of the LUGTrek games that sprouted up a few years back; I think it was Anomaly, but don't quote me. There was a costume party social event, and my mind nearly broke when a Vulcan character, who was one of the main characters there at the time, showed up dressed as...The Joker. Including acting like The Joker: crazy laugh, random bits of Chaotic Stupid randomness, the whole shtick. I asked In Character who he was supposed to be, my way of politely going 'WTF?', and he did this explanation, In Character, about researching old Earth entertainment and coming across the character, then deciding to try playing him as a sort of personal 'experiment'. Every other character/player in the scene seemed cool with it, so I played along a bit more, backed out of the scene, and slowly began to disentangle myself from the game over the next couple weeks. It just wasn't worth it, for my sanity, to be 'VULCANS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!' And considering this was happening on one of those 'Fill out your Duty Reports' Trek games to create an 'Authentic' Starfleet feel, that was just too much lorebreaking double-standards for me to want to deal with.
Going through my collection of animated series, I just got to thinking...
How about ExoSquad using BESM or Mekton.
Great setting, great story potential. Have the game centered around squads on another carrier in the ExoFleet either during the NeoSapien war or move onto the proposed 3rd season where humans and NeoSapiens have to find unity right after the war to fight off an incoming alien threat.
Not so much a full system, but part of one...
The last Campaign Setting for AD&D 2nd Edition was 'Birthright'. For those not familiar with the setting, it was Arthurian mythos with some extra cultures thrown in, plus a smidge of Highlander (your character could have the blood of a God in them and gain more power by killing other Blooded characters by stabbing them through the heart with the setting's equivalent of Mithril).
Part of the big focus of the Campaign was the whole Arthurian idea of 'The Land and The Lord Are One'; by having a Blooded character, you could be tied to the land in various nifty ways (Wizards got awesome Battle Magic that they had to use ley lines/sources to draw upon in rituals in order to cast). Each of the Kingdoms/Nations in the campaign world were divided up into smaller areas called Realms. Each Realm had numerous Domains, representing different kinds of power bases in the Realm: Law, Faith, Trade, and Magic, IIRC. Your Blooded character could develop ties to any of these domains to start a power base. For example, a Blooded Thief character could start out with 1 of a Realm's Law Domain to represent bribed judges and guards, a Blooded Priest could start with 1 of a Realm's Faith Domain to represent the Temple and lay folk they influence, and the Blooded Wizard goes for the Realm's Magic Domain, of course.
During the course of the campaign, there's a reasonably simple mechanism to simulate running Domains, including trying to grow your own power base, take Domains away from NPC's, espionage, direct warfare, etc. It added a really great, simple political acquisition & conflict mechanism to the standard AD&D game that could be tailored to a specific group's campaign goals, whether it was 'reclaim a character's ancestral holdings that were stolen a generation ago' or 'install a PC (or NPC) as the new Emperor'.
I'd love to see this tried or replicated with a fantasy game to focus on the socio-political maneuvering that can happen in game. Hell, I'd love for there to be a Birthright game in general. The Birthright online community has an 'Unofficial' 3.0/3.5 conversion pdf, and are working on 5e, or may be done with it.
