Posts made by Sunny

@Tinuviel said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

There is a difference, I think, between simply writing someone off and actively making their time worse. I write people off all the time in an "I did not enjoy my time with this person, so I will not spend any more time on this person" sort of way, but I don't go out of my way to get them shunned.

The former is fine, and I'd say responsible behaviour. The latter needs to be punished as harassment.

Okay, that makes more sense to me, thank you. I was coming from the perspective of writing off = the shunning thing you're talking about, but 'I will quietly not play with them' is different. Thank you! I feel a little bit better.

@Wretched said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

As someone building a game that is going slowly, and hasn't really RP'd much in the last year +, let alone really invested in a character, because of the aforementioned game building and health. Its a generous and vigorous mix of love and hate.

You really need to RP. Please take some time to RP.

@faraday said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

@Sunny said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

I am genuinely curious, now. For the people who are still playing on games, do you feel there's a lot of people either ready to write one another off, or just in general hating each other to the extent that they can't co-exist? ... is it really that bad out there for other people?

Yes.

I'm pretty floored and have a hard time understanding why anyone would put up with that for any length of time at all, let alone do it recreationally.

What it says on the tin. I'm super curious. Define 'enjoy' however you want.

@Ghost

Enjoy!

Everyone else:

I am genuinely curious, now. For the people who are still playing on games, do you feel there's a lot of people either ready to write one another off, or just in general hating each other to the extent that they can't co-exist? Is this actually peoples' experiences on the games? I mean, I know I'm considered an optimist (and find that generally laughable), but is it really that bad out there for other people?

@Ghost said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

You don't have to agree with me, and that's okay. It's just my take on it.

Good! You don't have to agree with me either, and my disagreement is my take on it. Good talk!

@Ghost said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

I was just offering my perspective and my feeling about the absolutism topic and why I think it's a thing. I may be wrong, I may be onto something, but I'm 100% willing to help mend issues and not being shitty about it.

I think that if it were on games like you're referring to here, it would be a huge problem. I think that what you are talking about is bad, and wrong, and if it is happening somewhere or someone is doing it than everyone involved should stop. Don't get me wrong, what you're positing is TERRIBLE.

It just isn't happening? You're suggesting a solution without a problem.

ETA: Like dear god, if this was your experience with mushing before when you were doing it, I do not blame you at ALL for running away screaming. But it's not at all like that out in the wilds! I promise! Maybe you should give it another shot and come see how different it can be not amongst crazies? I dunno.

@Ghost said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

@Sunny said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

What mutually assured destruction stuff?
No, seriously?

To be clear, I wasnt being accusatory to anyone, so with that in mind, I'll clarify.

I mean the whole "X player doesn't play with Y player for this reason, Y doesn't play with players A C T V and X". For whatever reason it is, there's a lot of players with undisclosed/disclosed ooc issues with each other that can result in:

"X player can play with A M and F so long as U and T are there, but O doesn't like M, so they don't want M coming to events, even if M and F are both friends with O..."

I think on a long enough timeline, everyone is gonna have some kind of issue with enough people that you're gonna feel like the environment is polluted.

This doesn't happen to the extent you appear to think it does.

ETA: I have not had to do a balancing thing like that for at least 10 years. Not once.

@Ghost said in Our Tendency Towards Absolutes:

So, seriously, this mutually assured destruction stuff is actually making the hobby harder for you all. I dont know what the absolute answer is, but I have buried the hatchet with some people I had some major issues with and things are going well. It feels good. Maybe it's time to work on that, and working out how to start communicating with each other.

What mutually assured destruction stuff?

No, seriously?

@bored -- who I disagree like a million percent with on a million different things -- is one of my favorite roleplayers in the hobby, the actual act of roleplaying with him is INCREDIBLY fun

@Thenomain is an AMAZING coder and the guy has a heart of gold, even when we're bickering

@Wretched is pouring his heart and soul into making an absolutely amazing game, and I will probably play there even though I hate WoD these days because man, I may not agree with him, but he's doing a good job following what he says.

Like, all of the people I have argued with about these topics, here? We're discussing heated topics. I don't want anything BAD to happen to any of them. None of them want anything bad to happen to me!

There is NOBODY on this board (that doesn't get banned regularly) that I would not stop to help if I saw them broken down on the side of the road (and I knew what they looked like). Pretty sure that could be said for everyone here.

I know you think that this is some big realization, man, but we all had it like 5 years ago.

@bear_necessities said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sunny if that is the kind of game you want to run, sure. Your game, your rules.

I'm asking what you would recommend. If someone is so boring that playing with them is like watching paint dry, would you suggest that they be asked to leave, or would you recommend that the staffer quit themselves? Or something else?

@bear_necessities said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

I get it. I get you have people you enjoy GMing for. But those people shouldn't get all of your attention. Maybe fred just needs a different plot to come alive in. Or maybe fred is just super boring forever but he still plays your game and deserves the chance to be apart of it.

So is the logical consequences of this is I kick Fred off my game, then? If he's enough of a bore that I don't want to engage with him the same way that I engage with Sue, then it sounds like the fair thing to do is just to ask him to leave.

@Ganymede said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

I think it's inappropriate, regardless of profession, to equate roleplayed sex out to real life sex. That part of the premise is what I disagree with.

I think it is inappropriate too, but I remember a time when players literally flipped their shit when they found out a player that they had "staked out" as their territory dared to engage in TS with someone else under an alt.

I remember a time when someone flipped their shit at me for doing this.

I don't think either of us have time for that kind of shit, and I don't think staff should be concerning themselves with that possibility either.

I remember lots of this sort of thing, too -- I blocked someone less than a year ago from my life entirely because they were a terrible person around TS and IC relationships, it was kind of a nightmare. I mean, I've lived this.

As a staffer, however, I disagree that I don't have time for that shit: I do. I have plenty of time to kick it right the fuck off of my game.

@Ganymede

I think it's inappropriate, regardless of profession, to equate roleplayed sex out to real life sex. That part of the premise is what I disagree with.

ETA: And I disagree with it vehemently, but I've said so repeatedly already so I'm not going into it again.

@bored

So, hi. I ran Ashes to Ashes (and several other games), run OTT games (tho it's on a hiatus right now), and do tabletop storytelling. I was posting my perspective as a staffer and a storyteller, not as a player on a particular game. That I share an opinion with the people whose game I play on, because I feel safe there? It's because they have policies that I find reasonable. This whole 'sex and romance are on the table as plot elements' is a line I've been pushing since Ashes. So.

@Wretched

I feel like this is more a discussion than an argument? Maybe? There's been a lot of good stuff for thought from most of the perspectives here; I've been enjoying it, for the most part.

@bored

It's a discussion, people have different perspectives, we've been talking about it. I'm not sure why people talking about their experiences in relation to the topic is particularly weird or problematic.

ETA: Also, conflating 'sex and romance should not be off the table as plot elements' and 'fucking around on npcs handing out magic swords and babies' isn't a good look.

@Wretched said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Saying that it isn't Ethical for Staffers who Run the Game to use NPC's for TS (again not sex TS) is not coming down on sexuality, it's not kink shaming anyone, it's saying that it is BAD STAFF POLICY.

I don't think it's bad staff policy to refuse to bend to the what-ifs and the past traumas. I disagree that it's bad. It's not bad. The gossips and the rumormongers are the ones in the wrong, even if they are viewed as a fact of life. The people abusing their power are wrong. Just because somebody else did it somewhere does not mean I have to limit my storytelling.

So when Vladmilda the Vampiress decides to seduce the Prince, and then the prince and she spend hours and hours TSING (as opposed tro rolling seduction as per the rules of the game) there are a number of complications that can happen.

I would rather address the complications that could arise than remove an option from my toolkit or the toolkits of my staffers as a storyteller.

If you, as a person, are the sort of person who knows that you are influenced by sexually charged roleplay (for whatever reason), the way that an ethical person handles that situation is to not personally involve yourself in sexually charged roleplay.

Everyone is influenced by different things, and has different aspects to their personality. The ethical person compensates for these things as self-correction. It does not need to be assumed that everyone who types out sex is doing so from a perspective of this influence.

ETA: I should have used the word 'biased' here; when I say influence, I mean influenced to behave badly.

@Thenomain said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Roz said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Derp said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Roz said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

"you're too emotional" is a common derailing tactic in debate used against women who express any sort of investment in what they're arguing about.

Which would be more valid if he implied it was because she was a woman, and not just a person getting emotional.

Telling someone you believe they are getting to emotional is perfectly fine. I think that people are reading some kind of sexism into the statement that Thenomain didn't put in there.

People, regardless of sex, can in fact be getting too emotional.

He wanted to know why people were reacting the way they were, and I was just explaining, since he asked for further explanation.

And he's questioning them in a logical manner.

I get it.

I've also backed off and apologized to the party directly affected, and thanked Roz privately for the consideration.

Apology was indeed given and accepted. All is well.

Back on the topic:

I'm not attempting to make the point that sexually charged RP doesn't or can't lead to bias. It has, it can, it will. My point is that it's misbehavior when it happens, and if it's going to happen, the misbehavior is going to happen in some other way if this isn't possible, because the problem you have is an unethical staffer, NOT that said unethical staffer was typing sex.

@Ghost said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

...could establishing an Oocly titilating line of roleplay with a staffer result in preferential treatment than others don't have access to?

Yes! It could. But I feel that what should happen in this circumstance is that the unethical staffer -- and that's what they are -- should be fired. Not removing an element from roleplay. Because what they are doing is the worst kind (to me, that part is an opinion) of abuse.

@saosmash said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

without them getting all weird and sexual about it'.

^^