Best posts made by surreality

This is generally my take on it, too. Have a neighborhood/area/part of town, vs. street layout.

Re: why you may need more than one room: everybody assumes that if you're in your home with someone on +where, you're fucking. It doesn't matter if you're fucking, it doesn't matter if you're picking navel lint and chatting OOC about your favorite TV shows, people are going to assume this. If you're just in 'Jane's House', people are going to assume this more than if, say, you're in 'Jane's House - Ritual Library', when 'Jane's House - Bedroom' is something that would arguably exist.

This doesn't mean -- barring communal residence or business -- you probably shouldn't make a one room permanent build for the property and then temproom up your kitchen/bedroom/kinky sex lair/whatever else, but that's one reason I understand too well as a reason to want more than one room.

(tl;dr: assholes assume shit and act like assholes on account of that assumption, that isn't fun, this hobby would be vastly improved by a lesser quantity of assholes and assumptions)

@aria What's really interesting about this? ...the old maps from oooooooooooooooooold oWoD had Philly as a Sabbat stronghold right standing out in the midst of woof country (to the west) and Camarilla Like Whoa (DE state line and down) territory, while NJ immediately across the river may as well have just been named Pentexville.

I thus have a long-standing case of the sads that there was never a regional game more or less planted smack dab in the middle of that region, with Chester as neutral ground (aka 'occasionally the DMZ') with radiating regions as their respective strongholds.

Edit: P. S. If I ever do the parody game, I'm basing the 'May as well be Vampire Diaries North'-ville on Westchester, around the college. Because.. oh, god, it just is.

@arkandel The mysql password isn't blank on digitalocean.

In the intro message, it has the location of the default password they set up.

You are encouraged to run 'mysql_secure_installation' to ready your server for
production. The passwords for MySQL have been saved to:
/root/.digitalocean_password

^That.

So you can type:
nano /root/.digitalocean_password
...from your root login to the server itself (which is different) to find it.

@duckula said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

Or Indiana Jones-ish. Or Maybe WW1-WW2.

^ This. I don't care if it's WoD, in fact most of these things I would prefer as not WoD, but I would love to see a classic pulp adventure game like this. (No slight intended on Gany's original post/concept, just... I would really like to see this hobby get away from being so WoD-focused, since I don't think it's super ideal for M*, rather than just trying to make it do more things it may or may not be designed for, stretching things even further.)

Thank you for this. I like to tinker with things and see what they do and how they work. I'll likely peek at this in the same way, and I appreciate the mac support and instructions.

(Anybody giving good mac support gets a major thumbs up from me. It's rare enough it deserves a specific mention and a sincere thank you.)

@faceless My money's on 'self-loathing Wolfblooded hunter with prepper tendencies and a lifetime membership to everything Alex Jones'.

I just finished this up today, and it isn't MU* code -- so it didn't seem to fit there.

Anyway, these are pretty easy. Note: the text will hop around a little when these expand, but life goes on; you'll have an automatically expanding/collapsing section (default collapsed) with the potential spoiler content hidden. (It may flash visible for a fraction of a second, but that's javascript for you.)

Add to the bottom of Mediawiki:Common.css:

.spoiler .mw-collapsible-toggle,
.mw-content-ltr .spoiler .mw-collapsible-toggle {
	float: left !important;
	padding-right: 8px;
}

Create a new page, titled Template:Spoiler

Paste in the following, and save the page.

<includeonly><div class="spoiler mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" data-expandtext="View Potential Spoilers" data-collapsetext="Hide Potential Spoilers"><div class="mw-collapsible-content"><br>
{{{text|{{{1}}}}}}
</div></div></includeonly>

To use the template on any given page:

{{Spoiler|text}}

Text: enter whatever text you want here, can be multiple paragraphs, but cannot include = signs or | symbols.

If you need to use a pipe symbol (for a link or similar stuff), create a pipe template if you don't have one already. That one's easier -- create a page called Template:!

The only text on the page should be a single pipe symbol:

|

^ Yep, just like that. Save it and you're done. Then if you need a pipe symbol anywhere in your spoiler template (or any other templates on your wiki), you can pull it up with this: {{!}}

A lot of wikis have this set up due to other code requirements, but just in case yours doesn't, that's how to do it, and what that thing is.

Hopefully this helps somebody out.

@faraday said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

Yes, it's super dooper amazing when you get a player who's able and willing to be a great IC/OOC leader. But I really think it's time we stopped designing our core game concepts around ideas that only work when you're lucky enough to get a rare unicorn to play them. Then people can just relax and play without worrying about devoting X hours a week to administrivia (IC or OOC). Then this idea of "responsibility" falls away for everyone who's not staff.

A big part of this, too? It isn't just that leader that gets saddled with the additional overhead -- it's everyone under them, too. They just have less agency, really, when it comes down to it, since the decision-making power is in the hands of someone they have to track down and ask, and plenty of games require this to be through some IC method, which means arranging for a scene or using some other IC communication method.

If there's not someone who has to give a 'yes/no' to most things, you have a basic policy, instead: "here is the list of stuff that's totally OK, go ahead and do it, here's the stuff you should check with staff about first, here is the list of stuff we simply do not do here" -- and you're more or less done. Bonus points if the latter lists are extremely short and straightforward.

@insomnia It's completely different code, really. It'd be like trying to write Python code on a MUX from what I can see of it, it's really that different.

@quixotic said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

Also I generally think "what you find fun in RP" will inform your happiness/success as a leader. It's helpful to actually enjoy the kind of RP you get playing a leader: delegating, guiding, etc. If you RP to solve plots and use all your cool powers, don't be a leader. A lot of leadership is giving up the ability to do that so that your group people can.

^ This. To me, one of the top three leadership qualifications someone must have -- in any capacity -- is 'creates opportunities for others (to do more than oooooh and ahhh at you)'.

It is stunning how few people grok that one, when it just seems... obvious.

@alzie Thankfully, not any more.

Best between-versions thematic change ever.

@ganymede said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

The second is to force an outcome on a player's PC against his or her wishes, even if its etiology is sound. This is not always reasonable.

Conceptually, I break this down in a couple of ways as a means of determining both reasonability and consequences, and it's folded into other processes more than it is an ICA=ICC policy as such. Some of the consequences aren't IC, either; sometimes they're OOC.

This is my mental flow chart:

Is the thing the character trying to do physically possible in the game world?
	NO: Then it doesn't occur.
	(This is things like a mundane human being
	suddenly learning to fly for no reason, etc.)
	Has it already been role-played?
		NO: Then it doesn't get role-played; 
		    staff says 'No, that will not happen, 
		    it is impossible, do not role-play that.'
		YES: Then it gets retconned without exception,
		     and the player gets a warning 
		     to not break reality itself again.
		(This is technically an OOC consequence, either way.)
	YES: How disruptive to the reality of the setting for other 
	     players is the action if there are no consequences for it?
	     As in, does it fundamentally change the setting in an 
	     important way for all the other players 
	     if there is no reaction or consequence?
		NOT AT ALL: Go ahead, have a blast!
		A LITTLE: Probably fine.
		          Consequences should be minor anyway, 
		          and should always be negotiable.
		          This is things within the norms of the setting, 
		          but it is known this behavior entails risk.
		          Example: someone starting a bar fight in a modern 
		                   day real world setting; maybe nobody reports it, 
		                   maybe they get a sympathetic cop, etc.
		UH... : Proceed with caution, because there will be 
		        consequences of some kind for this activity.
		        Consequences should be negotiable.
		        This is things that are notably outside the 
		        norm for the setting.
		        Example: someone walking down the street naked on the regular 
		                 in a public place, maybe they get thrown in jail 
		                 overnight to sleep it off, maybe they become a 
		                 subject of gossip
		SHIT: Proceed with caution, and know that if this activity 
		      is discovered, consequences for it WILL exist in the game
		      world, and may be severe.
		      Consequences can be negotiable, but will exist in 
		      some notable form.
		      Much less room to minimize the consequences.
		      Examples: manslaughter, major violence
		OH SHIT: Proceed with caution, and know that if this activity is 
		         discovered, major consequences for it WILL exist in the 
		         game world.
		         There is some room for negotiation here, 
		         but not very much at all.
		         Examples: use of secret supernatural powers in front of
		                   many mundanes with evidence of this, 
		                   murder in public view, destroying a grid zone
		FUCK ME: Proceed with EXTREME caution if at all, because this will 
		         fundamentally reshape the landscape of the game for all the 
		         players on it, who signed on to play something other than 
		         what this is going to be after this occurs.
		         Staff-side 'no' is a very real option, as is retcon.
		         Examples: documented use of supernatural powers in public 
		                   spread all over the news that change world-wide 
		                   awareness of the supernatural,
		                   detonating a nuclear device to take out the grid...

@theonceler Having fun isn't as much fun without people around to look on in envy!

(Pardon, I need to go take a scalding shower now after just typing that.)

@thenomain said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

@ganymede said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

The line is blurred between these uses because players don't always take a moment to consider whether or not an outcome should happen.

Staff also don't always take a moment to consider whether or not an outcome should happen. The problem with this is who is going to tell staff that they are wrong?

That's one hell of a rabbit hole, frankly.

I think it's always within staff's rights to say: "This would fundamentally alter the game in a way that was never intended, is not the game we want to run, and is not the game people signed up for."

I also think the reluctance to ever do this on the part of some staffcorps is what blanderizes and dilutes many a setting to an 'Anyworld by 3pm', not even Anytown by Night.

Is it possible to be too heavy-handed about this? Sure.

Is doing anything about this -- ever -- heavy-handed by default? Absolutely not.

As for the actual question? People not playing on that game, because if you don't trust the staff on a game to make this kind of call, or if staff have shown they do not handle this responsibility appropriately by your personal reckoning (too heavy-handed or too lax), you really shouldn't be playing there.

It's an answer I normally hate, but it's profoundly applicable in this case.

I mean, realistically? You can ask why something is having a consequence enforced, or isn't. You should have the right to some kind of explanation, and to present an alternative suggestion in a respectful manner, even if the answer doesn't change. Sometimes, it will, other times it won't, and you have to be able to accept that either way. I don't think anyone's entitled to any more than that.

What you don't have is the right to demand the answer change, or argue a judgment call at tedious length after you've been given an explanation and your case for an alternative has been heard -- which really does leave it as a matter of 'cope or go' in the end. (ETA: It is non-trivial how many people think 'demand it change' or 'argue it forever' are acceptable behavior, and they are absolutely not that.)

@tinuviel +job/deny ###=Needs more cowbell, but less bullshit.

There really is never a shortage of people more than happy to scream wrong wrong wrong!!! in the face of anyone -- staffer, GM, fellow player, headstaff, creator, etc.

Whether that person actually is wrong or not isn't even relevant.

@sonder Plz consider an 'Anachronism: 80s' flaw. Because pastel linen suits and bad 80s hair and...

(Also requesting a 'thinks that's dancing and it's not' flaw. Just because of this gif. Like... 'Not Smooth'. For the people who think they're hot, but are just... not, and are the only one blissfully unaware of this. I would take it in a heartbeat I swear I would, and it'd be a blast.)

@faraday Yep. 'A person is looking at the specific scenario and the dice on the table and is available at all times as play is happening to oversee the conditionals and corner cases to make a judgment call' is a hugely impactful part of tabletop RPG design. There's a reason it changes dramatically for LARP, even.

The folks on Reno are pretty much pure awesome, and I would be evangelizing a lot more if I felt like watching it all go to hell over someone who can't not treat the drama llama like an epic mount.

@sunnyj I genuinely cannot envision a game of any quality whatsoever going from idea to plots in motion on grid inside a week, sorry.