Best posts made by surreality

It's a couple things.

As for the edgelord creepy stuff, my response is in the other thread: it's the table. We don't have one. Looking someone in the eye when going somewhere creepy limits the amount of that you're going to see at the average table.

As for the endless bleakness, I think a lot of it comes down to a couple of factors:

• "We are so proving that this is not a game about tea parties!"
• "It's not the world of dimmer switches, it's the world of DARKNESS!!! ONLY THE DARKEST OF DARKNESS WILL DO!"
• The system actually does make success harder in nWoD/CoD than in oWoD by making all difficulty levels the same no matter what, and even success tends to come with some kind of downside (usually some drawback to the use of a power).
• Edgelords. If it isn't about raping baby seals while clubbing them to death, IT'S JUST NOT DARK ENOUGH.
• A lot of very commonly-assigned conditions and drawbacks are outright crippling, and written in such a way that they may be impossible to ever resolve.

More abstractly, some people do the equivalent of taking everything to the extreme, whether the horror they're aiming for is gore, torture, emotional terror, etc. My favorite horror movies are Nightbreed, Frailty, and Pan's Labyrinth. Most WoD games make me feel like I'm playing in The Human Centipede 3, Hostel, and the Saw series. From me, that is not a compliment. (I am OK if somebody goes Sharknado once in a while, because c'mon, SHARKNADO.)

@Insomnia said in RL Anger:

Yeah, I know. just... grr.

I can always tell when it's a scam too, because if someone for me they ask for Firstname, or Firstname Last name. If it's a scammer they always call for Mrs. Lastname. Makes it easier to troll them. But not even 9am.

These fuckers used to call here several times a day (for weeks and weeks and weeks), starting before 8am.

I used them for improv practice.

It is fun wasting their time and coming up with ways to do it.

If I was lazy, it was, "We're mac users, asshole," after letting them run through their schtick. (We actually are, no one has used a computer running Windows in this house for well over a decade now.) This, and, "Oh, hi, scammers! Nice to hear from you the third time today, how was lunch?" were reserved for 'I'm doing something else and can't be bothered'.

If it was an idle moment, however, they were more or less fucked to be stuck on the line for several minutes while some imaginary drama played out in the house, generally along one of the following lines:

"We don't have internet, the restraining order doesn't allow us to have a computer in the house since the incident, I need to look into this right now!"

"OMG THAT SON OF A BITCH PROMISED ME HE'D STOP GOING ONLINE TO PICK UP CHEAP FLOOZIES I AM GONNA... " <drop phone, muffle voice to sound like I'm in another room yelling wildly at someone>

"We don't use computers here, it's against our religious beliefs. Have you been brought into the light?"

...and so on.

Thing is, they were incredibly dumb as their caller ID showed the same fake name every time when they'd call here, so I was able to prepare before I even picked up the phone. Often, I simply didn't bother picking up, but it did open the door to what finally got them to stop calling, period, because I was prepared:

"Hello, thank you for calling Microsoft Headquarters Wilmington, how may I direct your call?"

They haven't called back since, and it's been several months now.

Completely random, but: it occurred to me that a potentially fun idea for a short-term game 'over all theme' would be something like... 'changing channels'. Completely different setting and story every so often, but with the same 'cast'.

Could be done in a self-aware fashion as 'this same group of people ends up roving around Sliders style', or in an 'ensemble cast' style, in which the basic look and feel of a character persists, but it's more the way an actor might take a different role for each iteration of a series. (Think 'American Horror Story' and similar.) For the latter, a list of available roles could be posted in advance and claimed, etc. by the 'cast' through whatever mechanism people want to use.

The latter could potentially be weirdly fun. Be someone's teacher in one season, their mother in the next, their employee in the next, their commanding officer in the next, and so on, while keeping some core traits and story elements in each scenario, or evolving through some of them.

My inner improv geek would find it fun, anyway, and if a certain season or theme doesn't appeal to someone, they can wait for the next to come along, etc.

@Cupcake Oddly, I see this more from volunteer rescues than even from vets. Especially when the volunteer is not an animal trainer or a professional in an animal-related field.

Part of it comes from just 'loving the animals' (not in any creepy way) and that often enough includes a lot of extra spoiling that is often very costly for a minimal, if not outright questionable, benefit.

For instance, the rescue we got our cats from years ago 'recommended' a cat food that was over $50/bag and it'd last at most 2 weeks. Even our vet called this complete and utter bullshit, and recommended healthy options that would be much better for our cats by far that was less than half that.

Try not to take the snobbery to heart, which I know is easier said than done. A lot of people will (often uselessly or counterproductively) spoil their pets, especially rescues that may have been poorly treated by their former owners, as some sort of 'who loves their baby more' competition, or as a way to sling some shade at or render a condemnation of the previous owner's poor treatment or abandonment of the pet. This all leads to a whole lot of incredibly silly behavior, in the end.

@admiral said in Horror MUX:

@kanye-qwest You can tell who the clique is by who upvotes every single post in this thread praising the game.

Yeah, glad I left. You guys can fuck right off.

I upvote pretty much every damned thing in this thread because I wholeheartedly support this game, the ideas behind it, and how hard Botulism works to keep things moving; that if something goes wrong, she owns it without juvenile whining or complaint, and works her dang ass off to improve. We need more of this in the hobby, not less. No one makes no mistakes, and the real proof of someone's personal character is what they do when it happens. Botulism has shown herself to be someone who takes responsibility, listens, asks for feedback in an open, public, and even-handed way, and works hard to do better the next time.

Full disclosure: I'm 'The Visionary' over there.

Yep, I absolutely got to do something really cool in the first story. Then my character died while I was asleep RL not twelve hours later and I was 100% down with that. I'd gotten to do a cool thing and wanted to make sure I was out of the way of everyone else getting their chance to do a cool thing, too. I'm in the low key group this time as well -- by request -- for the same reasons, and because I'm still catching up with and debugging stuff with the wiki, and felt like contributing what little I can to a project I believe is great and has a lot of promise was a more important way to spend my time this round than lookin' for some kind of virtual glory.

Still gonna upvote all the positivity in the thread, and examples of intelligent questions and well-intentioned critique/etc. 'Heather' me for it all you like.

This is not a recent thing, but a discussion with a friend and sorting through the yarn for the dye room re-setup brought it to mind.

The (late) Ancient Cat once had the best queen of all the cats moment. I had this big wheel of yarn, on a cone. (Basically, picture a roll of toilet paper 8 inches high and over a foot across, but the 'toilet paper' is wound yarn.)

She pranced downstairs, and saw this. Her little kitty eyes just went wide and she staaaaaaaared. And then she hopped up on it and muffin-posed with her little feet tucked under her fluff and began purring SO loud with the most pleased-with-herself look ever. She was all, 'I have the BEST yarn of all the cats, I have a yarn THRONE!!!' <smug>

It was perhaps one of the most jaw-droppingly adorkable things I have ever seen in all my life. We never had the heart to even use that yarn after that. I mean. How could we steal the queen's throne? She perched on it every time she was in the room until it eventually moved, at which point she would stalk around the room crying piteously until after a day or two of feeling like the worst monsters that ever lived we bought her a little stool to perch on as a new throne.

To get something out of the way, just in case there's any confusion on this point:

This is meant to address people I think I have behaved unfairly toward based on information from someone I since come to realize is a grossly unreliable narrator.

It is limited to that, and that only.

To try to extend this to anybody I may have offended over the years? Well, that would be ridiculous; not everyone I may have offended at some point in time is due to this, and to claim as much would be:

• Complete bullshit

• One of the most absurd dodges ever

• Totally unacceptable implication of another person's involvement when they were in no way involved

...so hopefully, that is clear enough that there won't be any confusion about that part.

...

I am not going to repeat the 'gossip' and badmouthing I heard about these individuals in the public thread.

It is bad enough it was passed on to me, and I made assumptions about its accuracy. I am not willing to take part in even potentially spreading those accusations and suspicions about those involved.

So, if you're looking for some tell-all of the things I've heard about people over time like some kind of secret gossip trove about all and sundry coming to light, you're going to be really bored and disappointed. Sorry not sorry about that.

There's another important thing to note: I don't often actually pay much attention to this sort of thing, and was subject to a veritable flood of it for a couple of years. As a result, I am not going to remember everything that's come my way (read: may be floating around out there otherwise as well) because it went in one ear and out the other at the time.

I do actually feel awful about this specifically, because while it means it didn't necessarily impact my actions? It may have for someone else hearing the same, and I'm unable to give a heads-up about it at this time, which I would very much like to be able to do if I am able. While I was able to guess at some of the crazy claims being made based on bizarre reactions to nothing I was at all aware of hearing before, let alone doing, or comments from folks, I had no idea how extreme they were. I may have been able to do something to protect myself if I had; I was legitimately too stupid and trusting to realize I needed to protect myself from this person at all for a very long time. If there's something I can do to prevent someone being stuck in a similar position, I want to try.

...

I don't think (any combination of the following applies): 'oh, jeez, I done learned my lesson and got me some lumps, pity me now! See how hard I have it? I'm upset! Being mad at me would be mean! I totally have an excuse! I was lied to! You'd do the same in my shoes! See how burned I am? LOOK AT MY SCARS! Aren't they terrible? Isn't it all so awful what happened to me? You can't be mad at me, still, knowing that! Not if you have any sort of heart at all! I'm only human and will screw up sometimes, if you're only human, too, you can't be upset or you're a hypocrite!'

That would be stupid.

That is not my call to make.

I don't get to tell (generic) you, "You don't get to be mad at me now!" about this, and I'm not even going to try that; that's a self-serving head-game. Trying to guilt-trip people into not being mad would be some epic garbage. (It is epic garbage. If you see someone throw themselves a pity party once called on bad behavior, or admitting such, whether that admission is forced or volunteered? Don't let someone exploit your empathy like that; it's another hard lesson learned here. This is a hallmark of bad actors.)

Further, I'm not going to go down the list of shit I've been through RL in the past few years in a plea for understanding or compassion on those grounds, either.

First? Everyone has their own shit just like it -- there isn't a person here who hasn't been through shit themselves. Did it spare them getting griefed? NO. It'd be a dazzling sort of entitled bullshit to think that if the person subject to bad behavior doesn't get a pass, the person engaging in the bad behavior should for any reason once it comes back around to them.

More importantly? It doesn't fucking matter or make a difference; it is not an excuse.

...

If this sounds angry? It's because I am angry. Someone invested a great deal of time and effort into making me angry, and they've got their wish.

I am spectacularly fucking furious with myself for being a real asshole to some folks who never got the chance to defend themselves. In some cases, it was visible here; in others, it may have only ever been snarky thoughts in my head, but that's not somehow fine and dandy, either.

This is not a joke -- when I realized what was up, I was physically ill. Run to the bathroom and barf for twenty solid minutes kinds of ill. It hit like a hammer, rather than being a buzzing gnat in of stupid drama that wouldn't stay out of my face that the rest of this stupid shit I personally dealt with from this person is. So while this is mentioned last? That isn't because it's nothing more than an afterthought.

...

As to the following, if anyone wants to discuss any specifics, please PM. (Obviously, flame whatever tickles your fancy if you feel the need, but I'm trying to keep the details of things out of public view to not further spread the shit-whispers I was hearing around.)

...

#1: Scorn (and ???).

No, I should not have risen to the bait to share that quote, full stop. It doesn't matter what the 'we just want to see drama' peanut gallery says, and I should have known better than to let it get me riled into wrong action.

I said I wouldn't share it publicly, and sharing it publicly was not OK for any reason, period.

As to the other party? Don't know their name here, if they have an account at all. You didn't want this shared, either. While I do personally not think well of you for reasons entirely distinct from this situation, that doesn't make it somehow OK to subject you to crap of any kind. (Duh.)

I know well why you both have concerns about this coming back on you even if not many others understand it, and that makes it doubly NOT OK to have done. (I was amazed by how many people popped up to voice understanding of those concerns who were unwilling or felt too uncomfortable to pipe up in the thread for obvious reasons. I hope y'all can take some small comfort from that, which is why I share it here.)

...

#2: Jealousy and bored.

Welp, I pulled the most dunderheaded display of hypocritical bullshit ever, guys. For all the fucking whining about 'what in the actual hell, why did no one talk to me to find out the truth here?' I... did not actually talk to Jealousy before just assuming I was being shown the whole truth, again. (I mean, jeebus, you'd think I'd learn, but... nope, didn't.)

I didn't pull my head out of my ass here fast enough to not stick my foot in my mouth, shove the other one in right next to it, and tap dance around for a bit before the lightbulb dimly started to flicker on.

I am grateful you were willing to speak with me about it after that, Jealousy. I would not have faulted you for it if you had not. This speaks volumes for your personal character, and it should be said in public view.

bored, while we have definitely had our differences, things have seemed chill for a fairly long while. As a result, it was spectacularly shitty of me to buy a line of bull about you just hating me and the other party so much that something shady went down to screw us both over. I didn't approach you to talk since I'm still not sure how cool you are with that in general, or I would have. It was seriously shitty of me to think this could have been the reason for any of this for even a few hours.

...

#3: Botulism.

I should have wised up to what was going on far more quickly and page-locked both parties.

I am very bad at pretending someone doesn't exist and ignoring them when they're throwing things in my face constantly, and I need to get a lot better at that.

I am furious with myself that I allowed this circumstance to continue as long as it did in your space.

...

#4: Roz, saosmash, and Kanye-Quest (and the forum at large in regard to this specific point)

Not going to repeat the shit-whisper, but it was about Roz and saosmash, specifically, about characters they play on Arx. How the matter was described as 'being handled' by Kanye-Quest was included in this.

It had a dramatic impact on my perception of all of you, and I should never have allowed that to happen. It definitely contributed to a lot of hostility on the forums that should never have existed at all.

This made things uncomfortable for a number of people in completely unacceptable ways, and it was shitty of me to do. It may not have been the start of the tension, but it certainly was lighter fluid shot into that fire that sustained it for a considerable period of time.

...

#5: Mietze

Like a few others, a lot of the shit-whispers went in one ear and out the other because I knew you before it began. It didn't mean it didn't play a part in critical moments when frustration would rear its head and I'd hear a repetition.

Out of everyone, you, I knew better than to believe any of this shit about, but I still allowed it to ramp up my temper in times of conflict, and more than once, to read things in entirely the wrong way with lots of yelling and stupidity.

Out of everyone, you have been the most understanding when I was unstupid enough to apologize for shooting off my mouth along the way. That did not go unnoticed, and it matters. It should have counted for a lot more than it did, too -- a fuck of a lot more.

...

#6: Cupcake

Again, the shit-whispers more or less sailed over my head, because I don't really know you or (no offense) have much of an opinion in any direction other than 'someone who is in the hobby some of my friends have an issue with but I don't see any problem with'. There were a fair share of them, though.

This is one of those cases in which I wish I remembered what was said to provide it as information, so if you suddenly found people talking crazy about one of these things, you'd know why. I do know more than enough about you to know you do not deserve to be in that position at all, and I feel like a garbage person that I'm no help there.

...

#7: Cobalt

Not repeating it, full stop.

I should not have listened to it, particularly because many things touched on RL situations that are not anyone's business but yours. It doesn't matter that I didn't ask for this information; RL info is a hard line and there's no excuse for me not saying, "Stop right there," the moment it started.

There were a few things that I have come to recognize as 'tells' now that should have been obvious to me much sooner that the things that were game-related were not reasonable or accurate, either, but even if they were?

It wasn't my business, and I should have told the gossip to shut the fuck up.

...

#8: The Other Party @HorrorMU

I should have been much more clear and firm with you that I was not willing to put up with the abuse I was taking, and cut ties fully the moment it came to light.

This may not have done me any good re: the abusive behavior going on, from all accounts, but it would have likely prevented needless stress for you from compounding further. (At a certain point, that is the best case scenario; I should have recognized that was it much sooner than I did, and made it happen.)

Stress is the last thing I want anyone to contend with in the place they're looking to chill out and have fun, and this situation persisting allowed it to continue.

...

To all of the folks above, I am sincerely sorry.

"I trusted the wrong person" is not an excuse -- especially for me, because y'all are well-familiar with my constant stream of incidents of trusting the wrong people.

I have no excuse to have not learned better by now.

I have less than no excuse for not spotting the patterns before I did, and making better choices than the choices I made at the time.

Even not knowing better does not excuse the actions described above, and I do regret those mistakes, and the wrong-headed or mean-spirited choices I have made. They've caused stress, tension, hurt, and division that were entirely unnecessary and unacceptable.

@bored said in A new platform?:

I think the 'the syntax has to be completely the same or the oldbies will rebel' is... exaggeration by the oldies for the sake of hating change (like most people do). Push come to shove, I do think people will play where they can play, so long as its achieving the functionality they desire.

Seconding this. As it stands, with almost nothing 'standardized' across the board, we're already accustomed to having to learn a thing or three with each new game we try. It's not that fundamentally different in many respects.

I'm another of those people that'd find it weird to click a link in a browser window vs. type a command, but really, it's not the end of the world.

@kanye-qwest

@arkandel said in A new platform?:

@mail faraday=Hello
-Hey!
@mail/proof
@mail/send

is harder to figure out than clicking on "Faraday", picking "Mail", then clicking on "Send".

Yes. Yes, it is.

Making something that does what you describe, however, is not in the skillset of the majority of people who want to make a game.

This is very relevant.

One needn't go looney when they're already there, 'cause like, wow, goddamn.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Dealing with Staff:

Everyone is a dick when they aren't getting their way.

Not remotely true in my experience.

And a bad generalization to make, if by making it, you're going to read dickery into every reply to a 'no', especially in a text-based environment in which we have a lot of information loss due to tone.

@Thenomain Bluntly, you're entitled to whatever opinion you like about how I'm overbearing by adhering to the belief that this hobby has too many unspoken conventions that should instead be made available to newcomers as clearly as possible as a resource. Ascribe any negative traits you like to that perspective; you're not going to change it.

I have seen too many people get nailed to the wall for not knowing things they had no way of knowing, and that are not at all intuitive, or may be the precise opposite of another type of text-based game community (IRC, MUD, RPI, etc.). These standards and cultural norms can be radically different amongst games in the same community and codebase.

Some of these people don't come back after this, and I don't blame them.

Some people will think they can do whatever they like unless something says they cannot. The reverse is also true and is what is relevant here: some people will think they cannot do something until someone says they are welcome to do so, and should feel comfortable doing so.

This is not creating a checklist of 'you may only speak to staff about X, Y, and Z, but never A, B, or Q' spoken down the nose with the use of the royal 'we' and the according imperious tone. This is assuring people that, yes, you can talk to us about these things, and if you have any sort of issue, please do.

The games I started out on? You didn't bring interpersonal problems -- harassment, stalking, creeping, etc. -- to staff. The only things staff would listen to and/or do anything about involved broken code, cheating via code, or questions about game mechanics/"what command do I use to... " If you had a personal issue with another player, your options were to handle it yourself or walk, because if you brought it to staff, you were the problem and you were wasting staff's time because 'that isn't what we're here for'.

Someone coming from that sort of environment -- read: someone new to the more common practices in this one -- is not necessarily going to know that if they're being harassed, or stalked, or having verbal abuse hurled at them by another player, they can approach staff for help, because the environment from which they've come did not offer that kind of support whatsoever.

<puts on devil's advocate hat>

There are a number of situations where I think third party complaints are entirely valid.

"Joe and Jane are constantly having it out on the Spam Channel. It sounds like Jane cheated on Joe's character or something, but I don't know what's going on there. I just want the channel to not be a constant flood of the two of them bickering." <-- absolutely warrants looking at.

This is not because of whatever may have transpired between the two IC, and that may not even be relevant. (If it is or isn't, and how, may become apparent when you speak to Joe and Jane, and you should absolutely speak to both Joe and Jane in this case.) Others will have observed this behavior in this case, too, and channel logs may be of some help.

That's pre-coffee, but there are similar circumstances in which a third party complaint is very relevant, as it isn't so much about whatever is happening between Joe and Jane, and everything to do with how whatever happened between Joe and Jane is having an undesirable impact on the game environment.

@apos said in Earning stuff:

I think that this stuff comes down to tradeoffs and just what staff are willing to deal with, and more importantly, what they enjoy doing. Like I worry that we'd drift into talking about design in a way of best practices, when a well run sandbox game with no metaplot could be infinitely better than a plot driven game that just isn't run well, and I think because of people's experiences on good games they might be more inclined to say, 'this is the best way to do it' when really it was just colored by that particular approach being well done.

Adding to this, some players are just looking for something completely different from other players. It's why the 'more games is better' principle is one I still believe in pretty strongly. It's why I worry when there's too many loud voices pushing for a 'one true way' all games must be in some respect or another, whatever that is. It could be: metaplot, y/n? sandbox y/n? heavily coded economy? y/n? -- it really could be anything. And for every one of those things, there are people who like that thing and people who don't.

I would rather see fifty games with 12-30 people having a blast on each of them than five with 200 trying to please everyone. And having a mix there is fine, too! We sorta have that now, but a lot of the smaller projects get smashed by the loud voices making 'one true way' demands. These people should be making their own projects in their 'one true way' and leaving the people wanting something else, or even wanting to just try something else, to do so in peace to sink or swim; criticism or inquiry is fine and dandy, but the non-stop bashing of other ideas starts to have some eerie parallels to the 'only I can be special' problem. Namely, 'If someone else is doing it differently, they are simply wrong and bad and should feel bad!', or 'If someone else is doing it differently, the very act of them doing it differently is making the claim that I'm doing it wrong! It's working fine for me, so they're obviously wrong! I must defend my way by attacking them!' This is pretty dang toxic, and it's a big ol' bootheel ground into the face of trying new things, or even things that are not currently loud-voice popular.

@Three-Eyed-Crow Yeah. Patterns like that become obvious enough over time. A lot of times, it's somebody testing limits and trying to push boundaries.

Sometimes that isn't a bad thing when it's in a scene. Sometimes it can lead to good RP. Someone who makes a habit of it indiscriminately, often in pursuit of specific goals[1], is not the same, though -- and a pattern of this is enough to show someone the door in my book.

The difference between people who stumble into something, and those who are trying to push the line and then claim it was a joke or (more obviously than they usually imagine) grudgingly walk it back with a prominent cover-my-ass approach front and center when they meet resistance is not too hard to pick up on. That's the typical difference between the person who simply got ahead of themselves and walks something back with a sincere apology, and the person who is trying to manipulate their OOC environment in pursuit of whatever their goals are. (I don't know if I have enough coffee in me to have explained this well; hopefully it makes sense.)

Sometimes it's a player who simply has no appropriate social skills (someone who has regular inappropriate outbursts, someone who has no understanding of boundaries at all, etc.). I'm going to sound like a horrible monster here, I'm sure, but I don't feel it's the responsibility of other players on a game to help these people learn to properly engage with other human beings. Given the authority to do so, if the behavior is egregious, I will feel sad about it, but I will show them the door. People aren't coming to the game to serve as that player's 'learn to people' sandbox.

1. I know that since this is me, plenty of folks will assume I mean weird kinky antics, but I don't. It could be pursuit of a position of power, money, status, etc. just as easily, and these things are ultimately more common.

@Thenomain said in Intersectional MU* Community - Discussion:

I can see, like Surreality and others, that the rules of the community can stop the administration from maintaining it, but we also forget the #1 rule of any private group: My group, my rules.

Which is why Tempest got a million upvotes for questioning Kestrel's personality.

Because no matter the rules, this hobby has proven over and over and over and over again that the rules don't matter compared to the administration enforcing them.

Bingo.

I have little doubt Kestrel wants to create a positive safe space for the folks she allows into it.

I have absolutely zero doubt that the nanosecond Kestrel's ego comes into conflict with maintaining that safe space, that safe space is going to lose the battle at mind-rending speed.

Bluntly: the primary reason I am against staff-NPCs engaging in TS is not because I think sex and romance can't be important elements of a story.

It's because players should have equal access to the NPC (per whatever generic guidelines are in place, for instance, if it's a faction NPC, anyone in the faction can request a scene with them, etc.) re: whatever services/offers that NPC makes to players of their rank/status/affiliation/whatever.

Not real keen on the notion of people grousing that Joe got laid, so he shouldn't be denied some hawt staff-NPC TS, as Joe's equal whatever. That's a whole world of nope.

@Ghost The trust factor for me isn't about 'ooh now I can share my real kinks!' because I don't; not really anyone's business. It's all about 'is not going to become an overly attached horror show that makes my life a living hell because my text nethers bumped around with their text nethers'.