Posts made by Thenomain

The best newbie integration is, as @Ganyemede says, getting people involved in helping new people, but in my case it's other players. On both Aether and Haunted Memories (Changeling), the number of people tripping over each other to help new people was astounding. Genuinely helping. No auto-greet scripts there. People can sense auto-greet scripts.

In the latter case, there was a chilling effect when staff locked players out of maintaining the sphere wiki, so I am going to mention that: Don't take an avenue that cuts players off from helping on every level.

@faraday

My point isn't that telnet isn't bad, or how we phrase how good or bad telnet is, it's that we've beaten the point into the ground and here we are, still using what is essentially a text-in/text-out interface with no suggestions otherwise.

We got here because part of the onboarding (a term I had to look up and caused me no end of eye-rolling) problem is in part an interface problem, and the interface problem is a server problem, and we've been down this road so many times that there's a Starbucks at the end.

We aren't doing anything about the server problem, and while we can do minimal things about the interface problem we really aren't doing that, either. Yes, this rant was a tangent, but it was a tangent to illustrate that okay maybe "tenet bad" is a problem but if we're not solving it then it's a dead-end issue.

There is another thread for this topic. It's the Evennia thread, and I'll find and link to it soon as I can find it.

@faraday said in New Player Onboarding:

@Thenomain said in New Player Onboarding:

But this predicates that the culprit is "telnet". It's not. The culprit is the interface. When you're hitting this level of getting people to use your product, this is a critical distinction.

I agree. But at the same time... the restriction on game servers being driven by people typing into MUSH clients talking over telnet essentially chains you to the interface. Doing fancy things like graphics and interactive stuff becomes difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. So telnet is part of the problem, just not the problem.

Then the problem is the server.

I don't disagree, but now what?

To continue on my rant: This is not telnet's fault. This is a problem of implementation, considering there are Muds that have expanded on the telnet protocol to help us overcome its limitations. Mushlikes have too, but man is Pueblo annoying to code for. My point in my rant is that focusing on telnet is not getting us anywhere. I've been editing and re-editing this post to try and think of ways to say how I think it's been a distracting focus, even to the point where it's a pointless issue. We can agree that jerks are bad, but we can't decide what to do about it. Instead we could have spent that time (and have) trying to work out what's good to solve jerkish behavior.

We have never really talked about how to solve this epidemic "telnet problem", just that it's bad. Almost never have we even said why it's bad. And so I once again see "telnet's bad, mmkay?" and I rant.

If we're unwilling and/or unable to fix the problem, then can we please acknowledge it and come up with ways to do better in spite of it?

@faraday:

@Thenomain said in New Player Onboarding:

Getting people quickly into a client and onto the game is good

So yeah, I agree.

But this predicates that the culprit is "telnet". It's not. The culprit is the interface. When you're hitting this level of getting people to use your product, this is a critical distinction.

@Arkandel

Okay, I'm going to rant. Not at you this time, just in general because this keeps coming up.

What in hell is the difference between typing in a Mu* client and typing in a web client?

The game doesn't change. The commands don't change. How you get things done don't change. The only plausible I can think of changing is the extras, like how Zork Zero added to the tired Infocom interface. Some text adventures had a Wizardry-like interface to show as well as tell.

All of this is interesting, but all I hear about is how "telnet bad, website good". Getting people quickly into a client and onto the game is good, but you're still using the telnet interface or one that looks identical to it I don't care if you're using sockets or telnet or AJAX or whatever you want at that point.

I'm going to invoke @WTFE here, possibly because of the people I think of who are "anything but telnet", he's the most technical and educational of them. But someone please explain this.

Maxis.

I don't play The Sims, but good on Maxis for opening up almost every gender/bio restriction in the game. I hear that you can't put a teddy on a dude ("no Frank N. Furter" was the phrase I saw), but one thing at a time.

My favorite user comment after the article I got this from:

As a parent with a young child, this type of thing honestly makes me sick ...

... because one day they are going to ask me why people used to care so much if a boy wanted to wear a dress, or why people used to fight about what bathroom to use and I have no idea how I'm going to explain it.

@Lithium said in Shadowrun: Modern:

So part of this really @Thenomain you have to /decide/ what you want the overarching theme for /your/ ShadowRun to be, and then to make it that.

Somehow my reply to this didn't make it through, so an abridged version of that post:

Yes, and I have my views, but I want in part to challenge those views, in part to make something that would be more likely to be accepted (note the "more likely," please; I'm not trying to make friends with everyone in this crazy playground), and to re-introduce the discussion this came from but without the implication that some people are wrong.

This thread is specifically not about what I want. It's not about what anyone "wants". It's about what people see.

@surreality said in Pretendy Fun Time Games:

@Thenomain said in Pretendy Fun Time Games:

I generally only leave a game when I'm bored.

This is actually why I lean on 'variations in experience is more important than a balanced experience', for the record.

Even one's favorite thing gets dull as dishwater after a while if that's all you get.

Which is why multi-sphere WoD games seem to last longer, even if each sphere is practically its own game.

@mietze

I will, have, and do hit the range from bring it up to complaining to martyring if I'm no having fun, because I know I'm not the only one. Bad staff, incomplete information, communication problems, if there's an issue I believe that it's socially responsible to make it known and, if possible, get it fixed.

Does it work? Sometimes, yes. Does it cause problems? Frequently. But you know what, I'm aware of what I'm doing and the reasons I'm doing it. I do not like to berate staff, or players, or games, but I more don't like these things to be antagonistic against the very things they are meant to include.

I may the exception that proves the rule, I don't know, but I can dissect a problem on a game and create stress on staff to fix it while still enjoying myself and respecting other players. I think this is the right thing to do, tho sometimes the wrong way to do it, so yeah.

I generally only leave a game when I'm bored.

My tabletop experiences were always "harsh, but fair".

I believe the intro adventure, Maria Mercurial, ended on a hopeful note unless you really purposefully screwed things up.

All three Shadowrun Returns games were moderately straightforward.

I have more to say on Hope & Magic, mostly that while I agree with the sentiment I don't know if "hope" feels like the right term. I need to come up with better words to describe this. "On the cusp of Heroism" comes close, but I don't see magic as being something that will bring hope to the world.

Also, I need to re read the Bridge series. I got to Idoru and felt done with it, but also felt that Idoru was a book between Snow Crash and Diamond Age.

@deadculture said in Shadowrun: Modern:

magic destroys the pessimism and opens a whole other slew of possibilities

While I did +1 because of this right here, I still wonder: What replaces it? Is it the chance that things can change? Does this require an oppressive world to change? Is Shadowrun (to coin a term I heard recently) "post-Cyberpunk"?

@faraday said in Shadowrun: Modern:

Shadowrun is an entire world with lots of non-criminal stuff going on in it.

Part of what I think of as core Cyberpunk is that if you are living well in the world, you are living by someone else's rules. To be an individual is to break some of those rules, legal or otherwise.

Where else would "moral ambiguity" be able to enter?

So Far:

• High Magic
• Borderline hero-level characters
• Theme dripping all over everything like someone in Ohio with bad allergies
• Dragons (nnngggghhhhhhh...)

Contested:

• Noir

I agree with what Faraday says about being able to escape the box of "It's All About the Run, You're All Shadowrunners" touched here and mentioned at length in the thread this ultimately comes from.

But the genre that Shadowrun comes from is seeped in Noir. It's evolved since then, but the question is: If not Noir, then what?

I'm using the following definition of Noir: a genre of crime film or fiction characterized by cynicism, fatalism, and moral ambiguity.

Emphasis mine.

What parts of Noir is critical to Shadowrun? Which parts need to be chucked in the fire?

@Seraphim73 said in Shadowrun: Modern:

Tim Bradstreet

RIP. He really was the face of Shadowrun for so long.

edit:

@Jennkryst said in Shadowrun: Modern:

(I presume when you say magic, you just mean on the PC-side.. players who can throw balls of lighting at problems)

No, I'm starting from scratch, so I mean the setting.

I should note: I'm looking to re-invent the setting, maybe the theme, and maybe, at the very end, system. This is a world-building exercise for me that has become slightly more serious as time goes on.

@Lithium

Okay.

But in all of that, what makes it Shadowrun, and not Cyberpunk with pointy ears and magic? Or is your answer "Cyberpunk with pointy ears and magic"?

@Lithium

So, the One-Percenters, just with magic. Gotcha.

@Lithium

there are very much high fantasy elements to ShadowRun with all the magic around.

I can change that. Powerful magic doesn't need to mean "High Fantasy", though it often does. I can change that.

So, then, High Fantasy + Low Humanity? When you can have pretty pretty magic, what is "low" or "gritty" about the setting? How does that fit?

So, High Fantasy meets Low Technology? I'm getting a general feel from the last few replies that this is critical.

@ThatGuyThere

Then I understand, and yes you've hit on a lot of where I would go with it, but Cybergen (CP2040?) introduced AR as a major power set years before Shadowrun, and I assume it's part of our future. Corps vs. Municipalities? Going on today. Sure, but is that what makes it Shadowrun? Or is that another aspect of its Cyberpunk underpinnings?

Like @TwoGunBob kind of touched on, you can play Shadowrun as a very hero-empowerment sense which is kind of in CP2020 but not as heavily. He implies it's the stuff that 'Runs are made of is what he enjoys, which is great. Great information. Great thought-provocation. Always frightening avatar.

@ThatGuyThere

Assume I haven't been following Shadowrun. Because I haven't. Explain?

@Taika

That was the kind of answer I was hoping for, but I'm not going to tell people not to answer other things. The more my preconceptions are challenged (not attacked! challenged!) the happier I am.