Posts made by ThugHeaven

I understand the theme of these forums and I know that most people here wouldn’t be interested in a game like Armageddon. It’s not against the rules to advertise a Mud here. So I posted not for the “How dare you post a Mud here! This is our forum!” people, I posted for the people that might say “Hm...that could be interesting.” I know it’s not an easy game to play and that might not appeal to everybody that visits. But it might appeal to some.

My intention wasn’t to marginalize people that have had something they didn’t like happen to their characters either. My intention was simply to say if you do make an ooc mistake, it IS ok to say “I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to say that”. You are able to say I made a mistake and people would take that at face value that you DID make a mistake. I see people do that all the time now. That seems to be a big concern and understandably so. If you don’t know something you can ask while you’re playing. If you’re curious about something in the world or a command you can ask that too.

What I was trying to get across is: Some people won’t break character to show you the right thing to do or say. That’s one of the essentials of good story telling right? Show don’t tell. I know it can feel like it’s a personal affront to you the player, but most people aren’t doing it to make you feel bad or silly or haze newbies. Give it a chance because it might lead you somewhere good.

The Templar you pissed off by not paying the respect you were supposed to show, could lead you into a plot against the same Templar. So your newbie mistake pulled you into an active plot. So try not to say, “I’m new, I didn’t know...” go with it and see where it takes you.

@twinprince All of that stuff might’ve happened in the past and maybe some of that stuff might’ve happened to you. I’m just a player that enjoys the game. So, since this is the advertising forum it might be better for you to air out the game’s dirty laundry in the hog pit. I’m just here to field simple questions and give some of my experiences.

And yes, all of those things are from a different era. The staff you mentioned aren’t even a part of the game any more and haven’t been for some time. From looking at the forum you keep mentioning., I’ve noticed most of recent, recent to me means the last few months, there haven’t been any real criticism and just incoherent rants and trolling.

The game has definitely had some rough staff. Being a twenty something year old game, it has had some “eras”. With that in mind depending on when you played staff may have reacted to you a certain way or certain styles of play may have been considered more acceptable. We’re now in the era where player complaints are taken seriously.

With that said there is an area of the game where you’re very likely to get robbed and worse. It’s called the labyrinth or ‘rinth. People that are playing the lower class, dregs of society type of character tend to make their home there. It’s not advisable to start there as a new player. You can also get robbed in the wastes! There are players that have raider characters, but in my opinion that adds to the dangerous air of the game and that your character is never safe.

Armageddon also has consent rules in place. So while you can still get robbed, you don’t have to consent to roleplay that consists of a character getting urinated on or anything along those lines.

@roz Alright, so then I apologize for using the word 'fee fees' too and I won't use it again.

@packrat I know, I'm really sorry you got treated that way. I understand how people reacting to an honest mistake can make you feel >< that big. I'm sorry that happened to you. I think people started to recognize that and some changes started happening.

@packrat I remember those days. Certain things people did throw a hissy fit over. When both cities were open for play a lot of times, you'd play different characters between the cities. I often used to make the mistake of referring to a templar with the title of a templar from the other city. So I'd be in Allanak calling a templar "Faithful Lord whatever" people would start reacting. A simple ooc "oops, I was playing a Tuluki for a year, sorry!" would usually do it.

@ortallus That's another thing that I haven't seen for quite some time. That's a deal where staff and players will react to you, particularly if you're running around the city killing people, because your essentially playing the role of mass murderer. Going outside and killing animals...well a lot of animals on Zalanthas are not cute and cuddly and will probably attack you first, so....they usually let that slide.

@ortallus The thing is that doesn't happen. The example you're using really never happened. There were players who didn't know where simple things were. Ok, say you didn't want to ask where something is. They've put in a direction system so that it will tell you exactly how to get to the water fountain. There is no water fountain by the way, but I get your point. That's not ICA=ICC is it?

The ICA=ICC point that was made was: You don't know the ranks of the different templars. Cool, that's not in the documentation. Or even how to address a templar properly, cool that's not in the documentation. The poster that made that point, is right, things like that DID used to happen. If you asked "I noticed templars wear different colors, does that denote rank?" in the forum, you might get answers like "Find out IC" but that was like 2007. I haven't seen anything like that for some time. So say you didn't know and you addressed a templar as "Bro" or something that caused them to react poorly toward you. If you break character and say, "I'm sorry I didn't know how to address you." They would most likely break character and tell you, "The proper way to address a templar in Allanak is...." and skip right over that....provided you didn't keep doing it, then that's another issue. But sometimes some players will stay in character and tell you in character how to address a Templar.

I also pointed out that you absolutely CAN ask that question on the forum or discord and players WOULD tell you exactly how to do it. So right there you have three ways of finding that out.

Players will make allowances for you not knowing something.

@twinprince You're right, there is a separate forum for people that had complaints about the game. From looking at it though. There haven't really been any complaints on there for some time. I think someone paid attention to the complaints there and started making changes. So the lack of complaints is saying they have made some kind of commitment to making changes and they have.

As far as the 'fee fee' thing that wasn't what I meant. What I meant was, if you make a mistake as a result of you the player not knowing something, other players would likely respond to it IC. Players do take ICA=ICC very serious there. Your natural reaction is going to be something along the lines of "Oh shit! I didn't mean that!" For the most part people would accept that you didn't know and correct you IC. But it's up to you, to come out of your fee fees, and go with it. I even gave a very real example of that. You also have the alternative of breaking character and saying "I didn't know how to address a templar properly, sorry." or just asking out of character. I understood why it was taken that way and apologized for it. It wasn't my intention to come of as condescending at all.

@alzie It's usually best to join an org of some kind so that's a good way to start out. Your skills DO start out pretty badly. That's something I mentioned they are working on fixing with the new guilds they're working on, so that you don't start off as a complete failure at everything. But for now, you do have to spend some time working on getting them better. The thing is your improvement is on a timer. So once you fail, you've notched up a level, but you aren't going to progress any further until your timer is up. You can keep repeating the process, but it's not going to do anything.

So I think what they mean by "Don't focus on your skills, just role play" is once you fail, it's better to focus on roleplaying something because it's pretty pointless to keep making attempts. The skills are set up where, you can succeed at a low skill level, so if you really need to make something you'll get it. You can get good at crafting ridiculously fast.

@roz and @sunny You're right. I apologize for making a statement that was weirdly phrased and condescending.

@faraday No, I do get that. And you're free to report something like that to staff if you feel you're being treated unfairly.

I think what seems to be missed is that I'm saying, things like that aren't a normal event anymore. I can't say that, that doesn't happen fully because that can happen with rules in place.

I think a better analogy would be: You're at work and you mouth off to your boss. You know better than to do that, because you've known that all your life mouthing off to your boss can get you reprimanded or worse. You do it anyway, there is no "I didn't know I shouldn't have mouthed off to you."

So in the case of the game, you make a mistake like that because you the player didn't know. Yes, in the past that could get your character killed. Even though in my previous example that wasn't necessarily the case for my character and that was waaay back in 1999. I'm aware that that COULD have happened. But what I'm saying now is, a player now would likely be able to figure out that you're new and you didn't know and would correct you IC. It's not something that happens regularly.

@roz You're absolutely right!

@sunny I shouldn't be saying that, because I don't have to. If you've decided the game isn't for you. Then it isn't for you. I don't need to say that though, because that's what you've already decided.

If something happened to you, that's not happening anymore I can speak on that too though.

@roz It is a fair concern and I've already said things like that don't happen as much as they used to, if at all. But at the same time, its a game where there is documentation that tells you how to behave and what you should and shouldn't and there's lots of it. So it is ICA=ICC.

So here's a little anecdote: My very first character. I decided to play an assassin, I walked into the local tavern and said something to the effect of "Hey where's the local assassin's guild?" Well there is no local assassin's guild and like most games, you really shouldn't be telling people you are an assassin. So two guys say "Sure, we'll take you to the assassin's guild." I follow them and they slap me around a little bit and then have me join what is the city's crime organization. So I could've been in my fee fees and been all "Oh no, I didn't mean that, my character would know not to say that." But I rolled with it and it actually turned out to my benefit. Now might there be players that will take your mistake and run with it? It's unlikely, but it's a possibility.

I get that people have valid concerns and even objections. I'm ok with that. I also get that it's not a game for everybody, that's not why I'm here. I'm advertising for the people the game is for.

I also get that things happened in the past to people, that don't happen anymore. That's what I'm doing. What I'm not doing is calling people pansies or saying it's not for anybody, that's for every individual to decide.

@meg Normally, I’d agree and I love Arx and the way they handle a lot of things. I think Apos has an understanding of gaming and fairness that really is unparalleled.

With that in mind, what you do and don’t do in character is responded to in a manner of ica=icc. Since there isn’t much ooc communication, how would the other player know that you were unaware to bow to them?

So you have two alternatives:

1. You can break character and say “I didn’t know I was supposed to do x.” Most people would allow you that take back. There are still players that wouldn’t though. And that’s because ica=icc. It’s like Dark Souls remember?
2. You can suffer the consequences. I know that sounds crazy right? You not bowing to the Templar might lead to you getting slapped around a little bit, but that same Templar might’ve realized that you didn’t know to bow and offer you a job, now your mistake placed you under the protection of a powerful character.

So they might be a dick in front of other characters and your fee fees might be hurt at the moment. It might turn out that they’re actually trying to help you.

Or you know...they might actually be a dick.

@packrat
Oh, I hear you and it definitely was like that for a long time. And I get how frustrating that would be to a player that doesn’t know those things while their character would particularly things that would get you killed. But like I said, things like that are questions that would be answered for you now if you asked them on the game’s forum or in discord.

Something like “where can I find a watering hole in the desert?” Most likely wouldn’t get answered. Things that you’d need to know people will typically answer for you. For the most part, it’s pretty easy to figure out a newer player and most players would attempt to correct you or tell you what you’re doing wrong, but in character.

That’s not to say some players will still go nuclear on you for making a mistake. I don’t see it happening with the frequency I did in the past. Honestly, some players are just dicks, but that’s every where in the Mu* community.

@ortallus

Packrat is right, it definitely was like that in the past. One of the biggest arguments in the past was my character lived in X city all their life, they would know where to buy water.

Well they fixed that. If you are in the city of Allanak (the main city) they have direction commands that tell you exactly where to go.

Pro tip: It’s better to join an organization. People usually LOVE to show what they know and show you how to do certain things. If you don’t join something....you are pretty much playing in hard mode. I think this is the most common new player mistake: players attempt to figure everything out themselves and many things aren’t obvious.

@oldfrightful

Yeah, it has a lot in common with mmos. Particularly with the combat stuff and the respawning mobs. In fact when the first mmos were coming out there were rumors that some of those developers were former Armageddon players and they borrowed heavily.

Also the roleplay is definitely more fast paced than an Mu*. You aren’t going to have to wait 10-20 minutes between poses. In fact there isn’t a pose order.

I think, it actually might be for some people that visit here. Combat is coded, so that’s something you don’t have to slog through, it is brutal but it’s mostly rng so you can throw some poses in there while it’s happening. There’s a good deal of roleplay that doesn’t center around combat though.

@packrat

I agree it definitely was like that in the past. In fact the “find out IC” mantra drove a lot of people away. People were lording information that often gave them an unfair advantage over newer players.

That being said. They are more lenient about answering simple questions. Just the other day someone asked a question like: How important are stats for a character? And they got several good answers. That is definitely something they’ve gotten better at. Keep in mind they have the help channel on discord too!

The thing you want to keep in mind with a game like this is it probably was Dark Souls before there WAS a Dark Souls. Meaning if you do something risky, the result is likely to be lethal. Part of the process of learning the game is actually going through that. That is definitely a way people play it, but you definitely don’t have to. I’ve been playing for a long time and I haven’t had a fraction of the amount of characters other people have had. It depends on how you play your character. I tend to play characters that don’t take crazy risks and I try to use common sense when I’m playing. For example if I come across a strange fruit, my character wouldn’t EAT it first, she would TASTE it to make sure it’s not a poisonous fruit. The game will punish you for doing something stupid, but it’s reasonable.