@roz Or just accept that I’m advertising the game here because it’s MU soapbox, not Mush/Mux soapbox. Whether people would or wouldn’t be interested isn’t really up to you to decide. It’s for whoever looks at the advertisement. There are people that never played a Mud at all. I’ve already been approached about the game, so job done.
@roz Isn’t the difference between what I said before and what I’m saying now: can we retcon that?
@roz And that’s when you say “I didn’t know I can’t read. Can we retcon that?” Players would retcon it, no problem.
@sunny That goes back to those things happening to you, but not because you’re new.
You don’t have to, I know what I said. In this very clear example, I clarified it right now. There seems to be a misunderstanding there. Now you’re saying a player might feel embarrassed that they made a mistake and they would like a retcon on the whole dialogue?
Players saying something like “Only nobles can read and write.” in character is not a consequence. It’s them not breaking character to tell you the player something. Either way you get the message and it’s no harm, no foul.
It’s not a fact, it’s your misinterpretation of a fact I’m having an issue with.
@meg it’s being said like that because there isn’t a context.
So, for example if somehow you didn’t read in the documents that very few people can read or write, and you say “So I read on the message board here in the tavern house Kadius is hiring crafters. I’m going to write a reply...” someone might say in ooc “nobody can read but nobles, Templars and maybe merchant house family members.” Some players might say something like that in character.
Now if you ignore that and go, “Yeah, yeah...so anyway, gonna write this message.” Well there are harsh consequences for a commoner knowing how to read and write.
But what isn’t going to happen. Is the same scenario and you say “Oh shit, I didn’t know that! Sorry!” Nobody is going to bat an eye.
What’s the context of the robbery, the beating or the murder? I say with certainty it wouldn’t be because you are new.
I could list a whole bunch of reasons why it could happen to you, but nobody’s going to say “Oh! New player let me rob them.” It just doesn’t happen.
Some one might say “Oh southsider in the ‘rinth! I’m going to rob them.” Two different things.
I don’t play Dark Souls myself. It’s just a game I understand you die a lot until you figure out what to do. I’m more of a Divinity: Original Sins II kind of girl. And what that means is, if you try to go outside you probably will die a lot.
@oldfrightful It’s ok if you don’t. We agree though that it’s gone past the point of being ridiculous.
@oldfrightful Right, but the thing is the issue isn’t whether a player will have a shitty time or not. The issue is, whether new players are allowed by other players are allowed to make an ooc mistake. So some former players are saying you can’t and current players are saying you can. That’s going to continue forever.
A shitty time is another topic entirely. That’s one the person that had a shitty time will always win because that’s how they feel. Can’t change that. Even then though, if the person can articulate what was shitty, it’s still valuable feedback.
I know I’d have a shitty time playing a WoD game so, I don’t play them. A player might say, I know I’ll have a shitty time playing Armageddon. That’s all well and good.
The reason this is different from that though, is there might be someone reading this thinking “Armageddon is a game where I wouldn’t be allowed to make a mistake”. Well that’s just not true.
The argument has been new players are punished for mistakes and no they aren’t. If that’s the circular argument then yes it will continue to rage on, because the people that play now say it doesn’t happen.
The only way to find out is to actually play and make a mistake isn’t it? That would pretty much solve that debate. If this is truly about the game in its current state or “neener neener, I just want to see a spectacle” we’ll be able to find out that simply.
I’d argue that a message board with a new player question forum and a discord with a channel IS plenty.
Don't mind him he's not really a serial killer....most of the time. But what he's saying is accurate and you absolutely can ask questions about things your character would know. Keep in mind there are things your character WOULDN'T know, but they aren't basic things like finding water, where to buy things, etc.
The thing with opacity...well, you see there are multiple avenues to ask questions. It depends on what you mean by opacity. Most of the time, staff isn't visible...no, but someone is there and you can wish up to them. No, you won't know about all of the plots going on. Generally it's not all that opaque.
I get it, there is a gulf between “not nice” and “getting pissed on after you’ve been robbed”. I can’t defend that and I wouldn’t even try to. I can say something like that isn’t very common. From my experience veteran players go out of their way to show new players how to play the game.
@ganymede True. They fell apart at the end. It was a good game though.
Who ya got in the next game?
@faraday Right, that’s not what I’m saying though. If you can direct me to a game, a name, I’d gladly play it.
And on that same token, obviously if the game is like that you are going to have players that will take it to the extreme. Wherever you go, you are going to have that. So yes, for the most part players WILL understand that you’re new and you made a mistake. Are there players that might take it to the extreme, yes most likely there are. I’m not going to speak in an absolute like that, nor should I.
You don’t have to explain Mushes to me or how they’re different. Armageddon has rules just like any other game, so let’s not pretend it some lawless place. It’s not and you have the option to report actions you feel are wrong. Believe me staff takes complaints seriously.
I never suggested that way of play was essential or better either. So let’s not do that. In fact I never suggested Armageddon or the way it’s played was better than anything.
If you can point me to a game that’s free of players like that, I’d gladly play it. As far as I know there is none.
Also you keep describing something that doesn’t happen. It simply doesn’t.
See how ranty Hedge sounds? Those are for the most part the people that are gone from the game.
I never insisted it was the only way to tell a story. I also never insisted anyone was a wussy. I’m not even trying to make this a Mud vs Mush argument. I happen to be the type of woman that enjoys playing both. They both have their merits and they both have their flaws. The philosophy of storytelling isn’t what I posted this for either. I’m just saying what the philosophy to storytelling there is. If that’s not your cup of tea, that’s fine I can accept that. The thing is I keep trying to convey this.... you can make mistakes and not get punished.