@ganymede said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
even the more robust system offered by the Danse Macabre.
The main problem I have with the Danse Macabre system is how it has been, in our more influential multi-sphere games, so poorly implemented. It is exclusively used by the Vampire sphere, rather than being a requirement for all. Which is obviously untenable.
@autumn said in Do you read the book(s)?:
I guarantee a particular examplar of this habit just sprang to mind
Tis who I was thinking of just reading this thread.
Which will come first, Miami or Cyberpunk 2077...
@pyrephox said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
Is it inaccurate? Or do you feel that it misrepresents the general resolution mechanics of the game such that it has no utility to illustrate that system to someone who has not previously read it? Is there an actual objection to the content or its accuracy, or is this just being pedantic for the sake of it?
The objection is to using third-party sources when discussing rules-as-written. It isn't pedantry, it's requiring decent and generally constant accuracy. There's no guarantee that when/if this thread is read a year from now by someone new the information in that wiki will still be accurate, given it's neither a published source nor one any of us control.
@pyrephox said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
I mean, I'm at work, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty much cut and pasted from the core book, minus a few other explicit uses of the skill?
Even if that's the case, it's not something one should assume when using third-party sources.
@pyrephox said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
It's not a full writeup, because wiki, and it's WoD
It's also a specific game's wiki, not to be taken as authoritative.
@surreality What, did the strippers not turn up on time?
Please tell me they were female strippers, not Bruce with the stomach hair that looks like Texas...
@ganymede said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
a bit of NPC antagonism
Agreed, but at times it can border on turning NPC to PC if they appear to be involved too often. That's another attitude that might need adjusting in the grand scheme.
@seraphim73 said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
If you're not going to have a collaborative system, I think you need to do as others have suggested (@Ganymede, I think?) and make social skills/stats only work on NPCs, probably discount their XP costs, and make sure they have some serious bite against NPCs.
With this kind of system one would need to construct an environment that is heavily, heavily influenced by NPCs. Otherwise the idea of manipulating and exploiting the NPC resources is rather pointless.
@ziggurat said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
Most players don't use social skills against each other anyways
Source?
@wretched But lying of any kind is bad! Omg how could you even suggest such a thing?!
@peasoupling said in Social Stats in the World of Darkness:
@tinuviel Let people retain agency, and let that have consequences. Give them options on how to react besides full acquiescence and shrugging it off? I know it's easier said than done, but there's all kinds of options, conditions, etc, that could be used.
Well, when used 'properly' social rolls don't so much remove agency as they impose restrictions on that agency. Conditions and such could be used, of course, if one happens to be playing a more recent iteration of the system.
Players, in general, don't like to lose. Failing to succeed in exactly what you want to do is seen as losing, whether that's true or not. Too many people associate their character's success with their own success as a player, so regardless of how much conversation, negotiation, or whatever else some people just simply won't accept that Donnie the Daeva did just intimidate the shit out of Garry Ghoul.
Unfortunately, whether we get rid of social stats or not, there will always be people that refuse to have their characters be intimidated, manipulated, or otherwise have some agency removed therefrom. The idea that players have exclusive and supreme agency over their characters is something that many people take to an extreme, so any eventuality that would cause them to feel a loss of agency will end poorly.
@ganymede said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
@tinuviel said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
To a point I would agree, however in some systems (for good or ill) what a person actually does in a scene determines the way dice are rolled.
It is system-dependent, yes. My experience with WoD games tells me that its combat scenes could go much faster if folks just rolled the dice, figured out the outcome, and then pose after. I've done this countless times, and folks are generally happier with the outcome.
Eh, WoD was one of the systems I was referencing. It's entirely possible to do weird things with the dice by virtue of doing something weird in character. Though generally I'm more in favour of conflict being decided ahead of time with no need for dice rolls - alas I am in a minority when it comes to WoD. Everyone needs to flex their epeen.
@ganymede To a point I would agree, however in some systems (for good or ill) what a person actually does in a scene determines the way dice are rolled.
@arkandel said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
@tinuviel said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
@arkandel said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
is inappropriate
I mean if it's private, I disagree. I'd much rather be told that my style isn't jiving with people than to just simply not get play without being told why.
I don't mind a courteous converastion about anything. But messaging is really hard on issues like this because the line between 'I don't like how you pose' and 'change the way you pose so I like it' is very thin and easily crossed, or can be perceived as such (which ends up being nearly the same thing).
If the conversation is polite, and intended as courteous, then there's no issue. Which is what I was getting at.
@arkandel said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
is inappropriate
I mean if it's private, I disagree. I'd much rather be told that my style isn't jiving with people than to just simply not get play without being told why.
@ganymede said in Paragraphs, large scenes and visibility:
That someone is an asshole, unless you've stated a reason for posing slow, e.g., I'm at work and prone to idling for it.
I would argue that if you submit a reason for posing slowly, then they are an asshole for politely calling you on it. If you dont, and you are posing slowly, it means they're aware that you are slower than the rest and are taking an opportunity to talk about it. Which is gentlemanly, if nothing else.
This isn't anger so much as... sadness, I suppose.
My senior students are off to study hard and prepare for their school-leaving exams now. (School here ends in December, rather than the American times.)
Year after year I see entire cadres of students depart for futures unknown, and I do my best to help prepare them for those unknowable futures. But it's sad every time. I never want it to not be sad, for I fear if that happens then my passion for my vocation will have evaporated. But all the same, sadness is hard.
