Posts made by Wizz

@Coin said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

You could even do cool things, where the werespiders and wererats are the ones most pushing to erradicate the Azlu and Beshilu because theys ee it, maybe, as their Pangaean ancestors trying to restructure and reform themselves to take vengeance.

I'll tackle the rest of this when I get home, it sounds great so far, but I wanted to say this in particular is a really cool idea! Whenever I think about Fera/Changing Breeds, how they relate to the Hosts is like the first major inconsistency that came to mind. I've often tried to work out how they'd be related and making wererats/werespiders literally the progeny of the Plague King and Spinner Hag is just neat and simple.

@Ganymede

Tried to app in, waited around three days with no activity on my application so I just kinda forgot about it and walked away. Hopefully CG time improves? Maybe I was just unlucky? The CG system felt very... barebones which was both good and bad. Hope all goes well and folks enjoy themselves but don't think I'll be visiting again.

@Botulism: So sorry about that! We usually get people approved quickly, but we've had a Sphere Eiz out, and RL hitting me and another. Hope you'll accept my apology and give us another try!
@Paris: You apped right when we were scrambling to deal with RL explosion for a few days, I found the character. As Botulism said, things are less hairy now, if you want ro give us another shot.

@magee101: I don't mind waiting as long as I get at least a 'Hey might be busy, but took a quick look.' Just little updates that say "Hey we're active, just too busy to sit down and finish the app today" If a guy is sitting around in a room with another guy and neither one talks, eventually someone is going to walk out of the room is all.
Alright ya'll guilt tripped me into at least looking at it, it was only 11 days before someone noticed the app was even sitting there I might maybe just might finish up the app.
@Blood_Magic: That math doesn't quite add up to me, but hey, you came back.
@magee101: The date of the @mail I received from opening the app and the date of the @mail sent when it was responded to was 11 days.

<insert me calling @magee101 on it>

@magee101: No one is at fault except myself really for getting space cadet status and forgetting about the game entirely after three days of no activity on the application. As the conversation continued I just filled people in on the facts and tried to be a little funny about it because I thought it was just funny all around that I'd A) forgotten about it entirely until I saw an update on this conversation

Yep, magee totally owned their part in not getting a response from the start and mentioned that it was their fault it'd been 11 days total right away, didn't blame anyone else, and they were totally being light-hearted and funny about it the whole time.

The only thing HI-LARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about this is that some people think you can somehow gaslight a forum.

Don't lose sight of the forest through the trees. It makes no sense to rag on a player that seems to be happily playing on your game.

It's not my game, I don't even play there. All was well that ended well until they brought up the timeline after the apology. I really don't like behavior like that, but I am more than willing to admit that I am just butting in and being a total asshole in response to something that irks me and I will drop it.

Nnnnno, I'm the one actually being aggressive-aggressive, because I find your behavior here shitty and I'm directly calling you on it. You're the one constantly rephrasing events and trying to play it all off to place your actions in the thread in a better light even though they're literally one page back. But whatever, good day to you too.

@magee101 said in Fear and Loathing:

Well that's what you get for assuming, I never said when I started my app in my original post.

That's...my point. Again, you said:

Tried to app in, waited around three days with no activity on my application so I just kinda forgot about it and walked away.

...So, you walked away after roughly 72 hours. Someone else says "it was lucky if -any- game had a turn around earlier than a week! So I don't think it's that big of a deal if it's just a few days," and then you come back with

Alright ya'll guilt tripped me into at least looking at it, it was only 11 days before someone noticed the app was even sitting there

You waited the extra days to bring it to someone's attention, you walked away at three, bringing up that it's been 11 days total after they explained the delay is completely passive aggressive and besides the point dude. But yeah, our bad for making assumptions.

@magee101 said in Fear and Loathing:

The date of the @mail I received from opening the app and the date of the @mail sent when it was responded to was 11 days. Yeah, well sorta, still haven't finished that particular application but made another character in another sphere that was done in a day, but that is almost done just awaiting final approval.

Three days ago you wrote:

Tried to app in, waited around three days with no activity on my application so I just kinda forgot about it and walked away.

TBH at that point you should have lead with "I tried to apply over a week ago and I still haven't received a response." To us it looked like you were complaining about waiting 72 hours max, so maybe cut back on the passive aggressiveness here a tad, bud. 11 days is excessive, but they've apologized, you accepted, all's well that ends well.

@Coin - I actually have no objections to that. I legit love some of the Fera and don't really see any reason werewolves HAVE to be in the limelight like they were in Apocalypse. I'd like to see your pitch about converting them to Shadow cosmology dude!

@Arkandel
Eh, like I said man, it was just a first draft. What excites me is the idea of an exclusively-Werewolf: The Forsaken game (with maybe the Changing Breeds too?!) with cool options!

You guys make some super valid points and while I still don't personally necessarily agree that the idea of some sort of global prehistoric Werewolf Crusade makes logical sense, and still want to point out that what I'm suggesting is really just cosmetic and the exact same amount of system mechanics work as converting Apocalypse tribes to lodges, I have to agree that based on all of your reactions so far the mental gymnastics most people would have to go through to reach the same conclusions I did doesn't really seem worth it. If the idea doesn't catch and excite people the same way it did me, it's probably not the better route and I will definitely examine Apocalypse Tribes -> Forsaken Lodges instead.

@Coin said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

I still think the Five Tribes with old tribes as Lodges is better--especially since some religions/philosophies ARE globe-spanning (Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Shinto, Hinduism--on and on) and the population of the world's werewolves is small in comparison to mortals, so there only being 8-or-so "religions" is perfectly acceptable to me,

That's kind of my point, though. The religions you mentioned (Christianity/Islam/Judaism aside) are all mutually exclusive and all started small and isolated from each other, but werewolves all have the story of Father/Mother Wolf, Mother/Father Luna, and the Firstborn in common in 2.0. It just makes less sense to me that before globalization they'd all share this one myth and form the exact same organizations with the exact same vows.

In the book, after the slaying of Wolf the Forsaken were "scattered to all corners of the earth," but each Tribe's hooks only mention one specific uratha or some small group approaching each Firstborn. It talks about how over time the Tribes spread, but it's not like the other little pockets of uratha died out...? Why would all werewolves everywhere specifically only approach the Firstborn, especially given that the Firstborn weren't exactly fond of them and each Tribe's progenitor(s) had to prove themselves worthy of the patronage? Why not seek out local, cultural spirit patrons?

Maybe I'm overthinking it.

@Ganymede said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

I'm still not clear on what you're doing.
Turning the W:tF Tribes into Lodges is going to be problematic, I think, because the Five Tribes are sort of built into the game itself. I can kind of see how you could wedge the W:tA Tribes into the existing Tribes and calling them Lodges, I'm not as clearly seeing what you want to do with the W:tF Tribes.

I'm not 100% clear on it either so no worries. I'm just dissatisfied with Werewolf 2.0's Tribes, I think they're super myopic. Even in 1.0 I thought it was pretty weird for these same five groups to somehow exist all over the world with little to nothing changed about them, I want Werewolf to be something with a broader feel, that allows characters to come with more customization out of the gate and have some spiritual part of their lives that is not the Siskur-Dah.

In my mind, I think the W:tF Tribes with their sacred prey and vows and bans and all that sound more like religious lodges, so that's how I want to rewrite them. I'm not going to change anything mechanical about them.

Basically I want to go back to the more literal use of the term "tribe" from Apocalypse, a tribe would be determined largely by where and when they went through the First Change, who found them and taught them the basics of werewolf life. It's a tie that stays with them for the rest of their lives and wherever they go it's a social and spiritual bond they'll have with others, it's kind of a werewolf "nationality" without there being a literal werewolf "nation."

The canon Forsaken/Pure Tribes I see in my revised setting as being a more local phenomenon, they're really these intense religious cults that either worship or revile the Moon and have these suuuuper powerful totems and their conflict is something that other werewolves sort of get drawn into, to clarify: not all werewolves are inherently Forsaken or Pure, because their mythical history is really just a super strict interpretation of something no one was actually around for. There are some basic facts that all werewolves know ie, the Gauntlet exists, werewolves are the progeny of the Moon Goddess/God and a powerful prehistoric wolf spirit that is no longer around, spirits hate werewolves and generally don't have great intentions for the Fleshy Side but it's not always clear why. All the Tribes will have SOME version of the "This Story Is True" intro from the book, but almost all the versions are contradictory.

It is a very, very different take from the books and I understand it might not really work or make sense, it's just my first idea on how to approach the setting differently.

@Jennkryst said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

The triat existing is not the same thing as allowing PCs to play Black Spiral Dancers.

Nope, it's not. I don't really want them, nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupe. The cWoD books go to great, painful lengths to explain that allowing BSDs and fomor and all that as player characters has to be handled so, so carefully, and that's with them assuming you're at a table with like five-ish people you at least know kinda well. Literally every time I've personally seen them in a MU* setting (blah blah blah this is anecdotal blah blah blah) players use them to take huge, steaming shits on the game, just like Sabbat. I don't want it, it's the same reason I'd delete the Get. Allowing and managing Pure PCs is going to be hard enough.

EDIT: I know that there are players out there who can handle them well, that's not really the point. Just having them as an option invites a certain kind of toxic crazy people in the MU* community I don't want.

I haven't read Beast, so I dunno if it could mesh. Must wait for 2e CB to hit.

Not really looking at bringing Beast in...?

@Jennkryst
I mentioned in the OP that the Triat will be back! Wyrm cults will def be a thing.

What I want to emphasize, though, is that the setting of Apocalypse has the Triat conflict dialed up past 11, it's a literal war. I'm not really a fan, in my hypothetical(ish) game they're dialed back to maybe a 3 or 4, most uratha aren't even going to be aware of them. Think more along the lines of the moments of brain-breaking discovery in Lovecraftian cosmic horror.

RE: DOUBLE EDIT: Not honestly sure how I would want to handle Fera/Changing Breeds. TBH I kind of...hate the nWoD Changing Breeds. I hate that they're a completely separate thing, I'd definitely want them to be more in line with the breeds mentioned in like, W:tF's War Against The Pure (I think???????) where they actually fit into Shadow cosmology and have Primal Urge and all that.

@Coin said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

All this is basically why it's actually way easier and more in-line with what @Wizz actually wants to make it be Forsaken Tribes with the Apocalypse Tribes as Lodges.

@Arkandel said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

@SunnyJ said in Brainstorming: Hybrid/Homebrew Werewolf Game:

@Arkandel I don't know about "the closest you can use a system the better it will be".

I misspoke (although you might still disagree with me of course). What I meant was "the closest you can use the easier it will be". If you use the nWoD GMC rules verbatim then it's at the easiest; if you are house ruling almost everything then it's probably harder than starting from scratch.

This is what I've been discovering the more I think about it. Rather than try to reinvent the entire damn wheel and shake up the entire structure of Renown, Moon Gifts, Wolf Gifts, Shadow Gifts that is all already built and there and basically balanced and functional, all I'm really doing is maybe changing the fluff and terminology and tacking some stuff on.

I'm basically eliminating the 1.0 Lodges entirely, calling the canon W:tF tribes Lodges and changing a lot of thematic stuff about them, and adding the W:tA Tribes as an additional social structure that maybe messes with some default CGen settings, adds some custom Shadow gifts, and lets people add flair and cool factor to their characters.

There really isn't a need to gut the entire system or stuff eight pounds of shit in a three pound bag.

All that said, @SunnyJ, @Arkandel and @Ganymede your enthusiasm for this is PUMPING ME UP YEEEEEEEAAAAHHHFHWFNFNENFIUFNUENGIU

Not to be super gauche and double-post in my own thread, but here [was a Google doc link] I'm using to organize my thoughts on the tribes and lodges. FEEL FREE TO COMMENT, YO

@Arkandel
Yuusssssss, ideally the Protectorate would play a big part in this game, maybe larger than you'd see in a Werewolf sphere elsewhere, because they've got to moderate the both the city/wilds conflict and the Pure/Forsaken conflict, which I see in this game being basically just four extreme religious factions in this larger "political" body that could collapse at any moment because of the constant tension from all four sides.

So back in October I started a thread about a game that blended the themes of a Classic WoD game and the latest Chronicles of Darkness release, my first examples being Changeling and Werewolf.

While I still like the idea behind a super-weird grimdark Changeling fusion game it's the Werewolf idea that keeps coming back to me, basically because Forsaken has such a special place in my heart and I didn't really expand on it in the original thread.

I really want to move forward and maybe at some point in the near future (!!!) turn this into an actual game, so I want to open the floor to ideas for really the basic skeletal structure here of administration and play.

So to review, the premise of the game would be that it's modern day (..........................................OR THE EIGHTIES OH GOD JUST KILL ME NOW), the setting is essentially CoD, but the five Forsaken and three Pure tribes are Lodges instead (possibly the only lodges in the game, so they have a very intense focus) and the original Tribes from Apocalypse take their place, modernized and updated as needed.

Basically all the Tribes have members in the eight Lodges, so the Pure-Forsaken conflict is still there, and this adds another complex layer of inter-Tribal conflict between those who are based in the cities and those based in the wilds, on top of the intense competition between packs, shartha, spirits, cults, and other just general weirdness of the world of darkness.

The Triat will also be brought back, but waaaaaaaaay dialed back from Apocalypse; I picture them more as these massive, almost invisible but pervasive cosmic forces that shape the metaplot (yeah, arcs! Metaplot! YEAH) very subtly, via nutty cults/secret societies (like this freaking awesomeness from the Onyx Path forums) and the shartha, and combat both werewolves and the Idigam.

I think this all broadens the game by a large degree -- you can still have the laser focus of the Hunt, but without the myopia I felt was kind of a major misstep for Werewolf 2.0.

This is obviously all going to be a little ambitious and take a lot of homebrewing and tweaking, especially in regards to Gifts and the like, and that's not even going into the kinda-goofy structure I had in mind for how running packs will work and so on. So far, is this an interesting idea? Something you guys can imagine you might get behind, or at least Werewolf players in general?

What would you change about it, where would you set it (I really like the Rockies but I am totally open), etc. etc. READY GO

Devilshire's app process stuck with me back in the day because it was a delightful experience. I had worked really hard on the character's background, and while the staff had some (constructively) critical things to say about it before they set me loose, they started with "First of all, we love this."

I can't speak for anyone else's experience of the game and admittedly I had come in towards the end of its run when their volume had to be lower, but I had had character concepts and backgrounds I had been really passionate about before on other games and left CG feeling distinctly like staff had basically just run my BG through a spellchecker and done a mandatory "does this dude go on for three pages about clown rape" speed read before leaving a bland "ok go" job comment and throwing me to the wolves.

I really can't say enough about how appreciated it is as a player for staff to actually get involved if they ask for some sort of background. If you're going to ask for it on a game, do it because you genuinely enjoy reading other people's work and want to help them improve their craft, not because it's just a Thing Games Do.

@Tempest said in Sin City Chronicles:

To be honest, I feel like I have to equate this to some kind of addiction where you guys just want the "rush" of being the ones to make a "new" game, to be there lording it over the MUing peons "YES, I MADE THIS!", and then 2 months later, you hand it off to whoever is handy when the 'new car smell' and hawt sexxorz from the supermodels that come with it has worn off.

As one of the Soapbox's official Eternal Lurkers, and someone who (I am about 90% certain) has never really been involved with any of you shmucks beyond the forum and thus has no pony in this show, I'm going to have to butt in and say that I have never, ever felt like anyone here has "lorded" a new game over anyone. Content creation is inherently cool and it's easy to be swept up in the excitement of a new game, sure, so since they're repeat offenders the attention is just naturally going to be there. Kinda sounds like someone has a jelly belly to me.

I'm also going to have to echo the sentiment that responding to an open call for staff by shitting down everyone's necks and doomsaying a project that isn't even off the ground instead of throwing up a "Hey, can I help you in one area I've found lacking?" is pretty goddamn lame.

@Jennkryst said in Sin City Chronicles:

It's in the desert. Practically BEGGING for Mummiez.

I will even volunteer to staff it.

I am normally not thrilled by Vegas as a setting personally, but daaaaaaamn would Mummy be a cool sphere there.

@tragedyjones Hey, it is your show man. Get your Mojave on.