Posts made by ZombieGenesis

This is one of the projects I'm currently working on an it has hit a point where I'm comfortable looking for outside help to start moving into the next phase.

I've recently finished the first stage of coding, the character generation system, and I'm looking to move into the next phase (hammering out the final theme, starting the grid building, and debugging the c-gen system). I've got some help already but I thought I'd reach out to see if anyone else is interested.

The game is looking to be set just after Episode IV and the destruction of the Death Star. It's going to focus on a small "Jedi" temple that was established at the end of the Clone Wars by a Jedi that escaped Order 66. I put Jedi in quotes because the Jedi that founded it vanished after feeling they made a mistake in founding the temple leaving the students largely to fend for themselves and find their own way.

The themes I'm looking to explore are survival (the planet is a savage world filled with predators and what not), persecution (they are fugitives from the Empire after all), and exploring the force and what it means to be a Jedi (no one at the temple has ever been fully trained as a Jedi so they're finding their own way and perhaps rethinking what it means to be a Jedi).

If there is interested I'd actually like to set up a second sphere centered around smugglers, bounty hunters, and things like that (Edge of the Empire stuff).

Anyway, those are the thoughts for a a theme but they may change as we evolve. I have a few people helping me now but I could always use people who like to build or who would like to lend a hand once we go live. I'd really like a few people willing to maybe run scenes once or twice a week, some people willing to familiarize themselves with the FFG system for app reviews, and some general newbie helpers who would be willing to make new players feel welcome and help them navigate the system.

I have someone working on a wiki now. So if interested feel free to PM me and we can talk. I won't be giving out the game address publicly yet because it's really not ready for people to just pop on to as it is just 2 OOC rooms and the character generation rooms but I can give it out privately to interested parties.

Thanks.

I came up with ZombieGenesis maybe 12 years ago? I hated having a number in my username and I wanted a new yahoo mail address because my last one was getting spammed to death. My friend had built me a Yu-Gi-Oh deck to try out with the Vampire Genesis card. I figured since it was a popular Yu-Gi-Oh card that name might be taken so I went with ZombieGenesis. I use it on most sites and things now. I've only not been able to get it 2 or three times (most notably on The Old Republic and X-Box Live).

My experience with superhero games (which stretches back to 1994 and games like Superhero MUX, MetaMux, the original Project Infinity, etc) is that we "won" by telling a good narrative that would lead to future RP. More often than not that meant the hero somehow "lost" the fight because if we "won" then the villain would be locked up and unable to RP any more.

We also built our own sense of drama and tension by, again, telling a cooperative story. The nail biting tension came not from a dice roll but from waiting to see how our RP partners were going to respond to our poses and how we would respond in kind. Again, telling those thrilling narratives was how we won.

Winning did not come from having better dice rolls or having a more tactically built character. It came from experiencing rewarding RP and telling thrilling, action packed stories.

That said I still think using a structured game system has a place in these consent based narrative games. I hated having to read through 10 pages of crap to find out what my partners were capable of...and most of the time these long winded descriptions were so vague I was still left wondering. Character sheets provide an at a glance look at what a character is capable of. Looking at a M&M +sheet tells me just about everything I need to know about a character's capabilities and limits. We do not need to be shackled to the fickle whim of a D20 to guide our RP, however. Though I do think it is also still a viable option for people who do like to go that route so long as everyone in the scene is comfortable with it.

My experience on WoD games is that people are more invested in their characters and "losing" a fight is in some way a personal affront to them. It could also mean PK for not other reason than this person wanted to PK someone tonight. It is one of the reasons I quit WOD games entirely.

Again, I think this is an interpretation thing. I don't agree with how you are interpreting it. No where does it say the word negate. To me negate means it totally removes and penetrate does not. You still get a save, a full save.

You're also using the term "rather easily" very loosely. You'd have to have 16 people with law rockets to satisfy with the hero not fighting back I think.

Anyway, you have your way of looking at the game and devising your house rules thusly. Which is absolutely fine. I've just been expressing my own opinion on such things.

While all this has led to me deciding I won't be playing on the game I wish you well with it! I think the MU world really needs a few M&M games.

No, that's not how penetrating works. It doesn't negate anything it just requires a check against the penetrating rank if the damage is less than the impervious amount (half the impervious rank).

I think you're using the term "being hurt" fairly liberally. He'll be hit with a rocket and be mildly annoyed (25% chance of being -1 on future damage checks).

Anyway, it's TOR time for me. For the record, I do see your points I just don't necessarily agree with them is all. All just a matter of opinion.

Ah, okay. Found the stats but I'm still not seeing how it negates impervious toughness.

@Lithium
I guess I'm not getting your takes on either explosives or penetrating attack. First, I can't find a single source that has any explosive with damage 9 and penetrating attack 9. The highest penetrating attack I can find is 2 for, oddly enough, a LAW. Could you please point me to your source for these stats?

Second, even using those stats, say someone with Impervious Toughness 18 is hit with the blast they're still only resisting a rank 24 attack (15 + 9 for the penetrating attack). They take no damage by rolling a 6 or higher. How does it negate their toughness? I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to know where you're getting this rule from in case I've been doing it wrong all this time. Thanks!

Unfortunately this has to be a quick post as my gaming group is meeting online but I wanted to throw this out there.

In my experience Impervious simulates comic based combat wonderfully with the way M&M 3E handles things.

Using the Powerhouse archetype we can look at some examples. He has Toughness 14 and 12 ranks of that are impervious. This means he is immune to anything with a damage rating of 6 or lower. This means any human level strength character and almost any weapon outside of a rocket launcher have no chance of hurting him (outside of miracle hits simulated by crits).

So let's start with the sniper rifle example. The sniper rifle is damage 5 with a threat range of 19-20. Under normal circumstances the Powerhouse is immune to the sniper rifle damage. If the attacker scores a critical hit (10% chance) then they have the potential to harm the Powerhouse with rank 10 damage.

This means the Powerhouse now has to make a damage check with his 14 Toughness vs a DC of 25. He totally ignores this damage 50% of the time by rolling an 11 or greater. He suffers 1 degree of failure 20% of the time by rolling a 7 through 10. This has little impact on him save that he's -1 on future damage saves. He suffers 2 degrees of failure 25% of the time by rolling a 2 through 6. This means he suffers -1 on future damage checks and are dazed (only standard and free actions) until the end of his next turn. He suffers 3 degrees of failure 5% of the time by rolling a 1. This means he would be staggered until he recovers.

This works as a good example of any rank 10 attack against the Powerhouse. For the sniper rifle it is going to be exceedingly rare. For another PL 10 character this might be an average attack. I think this makes him VERY tough to hurt against similarly ranked characters. He ignores the damage 50% of the time and only takes significant damage 1% of the time.

Further, he can only even be hurt by a rank 7 or higher attack. From a strength perspective this would be a superhuman who could lift roughly 3 tons. No human has a chance of hurting the Powerhouse with his bare hands. Someone with a strength of 7 (barring critical hits) is going to have their hits ignored 65% of the time. Even if the hit scores 25% of the time this will be a single degree of failure and 10% of the time it will be a second degree failure. There is no chance (outside of a critical) for any significant damage to be had by even a rank 7 attack.

If we look at the upper end and say he is struck with a strength 12 attack he is now saving against a DC 27. This means he still ignores all damage 40% of the time by rolling a 13 or higher. Those are still pretty good odds. And he still has no chance at a 4th degree failure and won't barring critical hits or having suffered at least 4 hits already. And this is against attacks that are likely pushing the limits of a PL 10 character.

I find that tinkering with impervious (making them immune to power rank attacks) completely unbalances the game. I think the default system simulates most things you'd see in the comics quite nicely. You could have battles with Captain America vs. Iron Man with Cap having a chance of winning without Iron Man feeling like he's been punked out. Or Batman vs. Superman in a similar (but even more slanted) situation.

That said, I can also see it as a valid option for simulating absolute tanks at lower levels (PL 10 or so). When you just want to say, "Nope, physical attacks just do not hurt this guy" but you don't want a PL 15 campaign going on.

We seem to disagree on how much of a toolbox system M&M is. I think it is just as much of a toolbox system as Hero (though I agree that it is not nearly as daunting but I think this is thanks to a slicker design than to being less of a toolbox system). That's about it.

I view M&M as the ultimate toolbox system. It has a fairly minimal entry learning curve but gives you absolute control over how your character is built. You don't have to shoe horn powers in a "close enough" build, you can create exactly what you want.

@Lithium I think we're in disagreement about what a toolbox(or toolkit) system is but that's beyond the point.

RE: Marvel Superheroes RPG I remember a bunch of articles for non-random MSH c-gen in the old Wizard magazines. I think they might have them archived somewhere on http://classicmarvelforever.com/cms/.

MSH remains one of my all time favorite systems. The recent ICONS system comes very close to updating it for the modern era. Converting from MSH to ICONS is pretty simple and straight forward. I always felt that M&M 3E was a modern day revitalization of the old DC Heroes RPG by WEG and ICONS was the same for MSH (though ICONS is closer to MSH than M&M 3E is to DCH). Which was great for me because those were my two all time favorite superhero RPGs.

As someone who has coded up a M&M 3E system all I can say is, good luck. The problem with coding M&M is that it's a toolbox system. You don't create a character by buying powers you create a character by building powers and abilities. This adds numerous levels of complexity and complication to the process.

An intuitive and user friendly c-gen aside the player still has to understand the dozens and dozens of abilities and traits that make up the M&M system. One of the biggest blockades is the Affliction ability. While I think it's a brilliantly simple way to handle a wide array of powers it can be very difficult to wrap your head around, even for experienced RPers.

Anyway, I'm not trying to bash the idea of an M&M MUX I just think if you want to build an M&M MUX it will be largely for M&M players. I think you are very unlikely to convert non-M&M types to the game. Though I will say that the idea of an OC theme may be just the thing to do it.

These are just my opinions of course.

I think the strength of M&M is once you get past the need to balance your PL the rest of the system is fairly easy. At least in comparison to some other systems. I obviously love M&M as my DC game uses it but as someone who coded what I think is about as simple a system as you're going to get...it can still be a monumental obstacle for new players to get through. At least if you want your system to provide an initial checks and balances for PL and point calculation and what not.

If you make a game using the M&M system I think you need to be okay with the fact that you are likely going to draw only M&M players. I can kind of get around that with my DC game because all the FCs have their +sheets already made for them. Players simply pop on and claim a character. On an OC only game new players will have to learn the system (which can be daunting) and then figure out character generation (which can be equally as daunting).

Despite all that I still love M&M and think it can be a great base for a MUX. It is for the reasons discussed above, however, that a group of people I'm working with have decided not to use M&M for their superhero game and instead are probably going to use a variation of ICONS/FASERIP.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on M&M and games that might use them.

I think the key to understanding M&M is understanding PL. It is, unfortunately, a min-max issue by default. If you want to be competitive at a given PL you need to have your offense in a certain area (to-hit + damage output = X) and your defense in a certain area (defense + toughness = X). While I love the system you can't just go in and make a character without balancing those two things. If you do you may not get what you think you're getting. It also means some characters come out with fairly wonky stats. The Joker, for instance, has a very high to hit rating for melee combat and it is rationalized as "Well, he needs to be a match for Batman in a fight..."

For me it's a small thing, I still very much like the system, but it is a thing.

I think if you try to proxy the dice you'll find it very frustrating. I highly recommend any of the starter sets for any of the 3 lines. They come with a ton of things that will remain useful even if you graduate to the full on core rules (tokens, maps, dice).

I've been playing around with a FFG system for a bit now. A tricky system but I think I have it going pretty smoothly at this point. If you're interested in checking out what I've done PM me and I'll let you know where my test site is.

With the transition we have lost some players but if you want RP my suggestion is to make a character and just ask for it. Barb is there almost every day and is ready to RP. Poor Vic has been trying to get some plots started since the game opened. My work schedule has opened up a bit so I should be there on Saturdays, (Some) Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays now. A lot of the people on the game (myself included) do have early/mid Eastern timezone schedules though so that does make it tough at times unfortunately.

Due to losing contact with Dark Souls and not knowing how long he had purchased hosting for I have moved this game back over to my server for the time being and taken over running it. It can now be found at...

Host: muxmadness.com
Port: 2015

We're still here. Slow and off to a bumpy start but we're here.

I think saying the system has "major issues" is a bit extreme. It really has 1 issue, that combat hinges so completely on Dexterity. That said I've been tempted to raise the starting Dex limit to 7 which is the highest I think you can find on any of the sample starting characters in the books.