Good or New Movies Review
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@calindra
Because the movie has been out long enough to be released on digital and Bluray. -
@calindra after 2 weeks, it's on you to avoid spoilers. If you're going to be precious about things, make the time to see the bloody movie already.
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@theonceler said in Good or New Movies Review:
Jesus. That's a hell of a series of takes on Black Panther, I guess.
That looks awesome!
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@thenomain said in Good or New Movies Review:
@thatguythere said in Good or New Movies Review:
first world rural
So...Trump rallies? GPS-driven tractors? Corporations suing independent farmers for GMO use because they managed to convince the courts to overlook how pollination works?
I was thinking more rustic looking house with a satellite dish behind it pulling in 300 channels from around the world.
Honestly comics and comics movies show us very little about any non-urban area in the setting, hell most of any Black Panther series has taken place around the world rather than actually in Wakanda. -
There's a lot of background you can look at in the Black Panther movie, from a set piece angle, that makes it looks like 'traditional built on top of high-tech'. The city is high-tech, it seemed like vehicles were pretty common, and people mixed their tribal heritage and laid it on top of their technology. So it's not so much 'rural' as it is 'we don't need to destroy the nature of the world and our tribal heritages with concrete and steel, we can mix the two to a great degree.'
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One of my favorite things about Black Panther was the architecture of Wakanda. Skyscrapers reflecting Sahelian aesthetics? Yes please. That was so, so cool. Seeing afrofuturism on the big screen was indescribably awesome.
What I did not like was the feeling of "African American culture bad, fictional Wakandan culture good" that I got. There's something vaguely skeevy to my mind about having the only AAVE you hear coming out of the mouth of a psychopath. I don't think Killmonger's violent
proletarianblack revolution was a good idea, but I also am really deeply skeptical of the idea that setting up a couple of schools and tech centers is a meaningful response to the massive structural inequities of American racism.I think superhero movies in general are sort of reactionary though.
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@rinel said in Good or New Movies Review:
What I did not like was the feeling of "African American culture bad, fictional Wakandan culture good" that I got.
I can't argue with a feeling, but I think you may have missed what the writers were getting at.
What I got was that Wakandans find African American culture "bad" because it was born out of a history of oppression. What I saw T'Challa wrestling with was Wakanda's part in that history. What I understood was that T'Challa discovered and concluded that Wakanda was as responsible for that oppression as the oppressors because they let it happen when they could have intervened and ended it.
What I object to is that this plays into neo-conservative tropes of military intervention in order to make the world a "better and safer" place. Similiarly, I too agree that foreign investment isn't a meaningful response to the inequities that exist in the nations where the United States has intervened.
The fact that we're talking about this is a very good thing, however, and it is for that reason that I approve of Black Panther whole-heartedly.
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@ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:
@rinel said in Good or New Movies Review:
What I did not like was the feeling of "African American culture bad, fictional Wakandan culture good" that I got.
I can't argue with a feeling, but I think you may have missed what the writers were getting at.
What I got was that Wakandans find African American culture "bad" because it was born out of a history of oppression. What I saw T'Challa wrestling with was Wakanda's part in that history. What I understood was that T'Challa discovered and concluded that Wakanda was as responsible for that oppression as the oppressors because they let it happen when they could have intervened and ended it.
I understand that in the abstract and agree with it. But the viewers' interactions with Black Americans are limited to Killmonger, his girlfriend (who gets maybe two lines?), and an assortment of children. Killmonger seems to go heavy on the AAVE dialect when he is engaging in "thuggish" behavior. At best, the movie is putting forward some sort of "Wakandan man's burden," where a fictional country must elevate American blacks through advanced technology and intervention. I don't think any of this was the intended message of the film. It just seemed like it was sort of implied in the way that the director emphasized certain things.
I agree that it is a good thing the movie was made. Watching Infinity War yesterday made me realize how much Black Panther got right--for instance, not making a female villain for female heroes to fight while men do all the important work.
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@rinel said in Good or New Movies Review:
I understand that in the abstract and agree with it. But the viewers' interactions with Black Americans are limited to Killmonger, his girlfriend (who gets maybe two lines?), and an assortment of children. Killmonger seems to go heavy on the AAVE dialect when he is engaging in "thuggish" behavior. At best, the movie is putting forward some sort of "Wakandan man's burden," where a fictional country must elevate American blacks through advanced technology and intervention. I don't think any of this was the intended message of the film. It just seemed like it was sort of implied in the way that the director emphasized certain things.
I firmly believe that the best scripts for comic book heroes are the ones that focus on the villain and his or her motivations. It is easy for a viewer to understand a hero's motivation, but less so for a villain. Sympathetic villains are wasted where screenwriters neglect to attach them emotionally to the audience. To me, that's what happened here.
I understood T'Challa's struggle immediately. I didn't understand Killmonger's. I think that many black Americans understood Killmonger immediately, and had a stronger emotional attachment to him. I think this was by design. For a viewer like me, however, I wish I had a stronger connection because it would have made the movie so much better.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:
I understood T'Challa's struggle immediately. I didn't understand Killmonger's. I think that many black Americans understood Killmonger immediately, and had a stronger emotional attachment to him. I think this was by design. For a viewer like me, however, I wish I had a stronger connection because it would have made the movie so much better.
I think this would have been helped if we had had more screen time with Killmonger. In the total run time of the film he didn't have much. And I will say Jordan did a great job with what he did have.
Speaking of the cast...I think the entire supporting cast around T'challa did a fantastic job. I've loved seeing Angela Basset since her Strange Days role, but damn General Okoye, played by Danai Gurira was just phenomenal. I was also impressed with Shiri's actress Letitia Wright. I hope to see more of both of them in other films in the future.
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@jaded
Re: SHuriThe fandom is convinced she’ll take up the role as Panther for a while in the movies. She did in tha comics when Storm and T’Challa got married and it fits her narrative overall.
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@bobotron Either way I don't care as long as both of them are in the movie. They have great chemistry and they were great at their roles.
I just don't want this comic book thing to be carried over to movies, where for a character's mantle to be passed we have to be rid of the predecessor, like it's a zero sum game and there can only be one.
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@arkandel Marvel's already broken that mold somewhat with the Henry Pym/Scott Lang in Ant-Man, I had assumed.
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@bobotron While I do wonder if Shuri will take over as BP, I could also see her taking up the Iron Man mantle, realizing the comics' Riri Williams/Ironheart character.
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@arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
@bobotron Either way I don't care as long as both of them are in the movie. They have great chemistry and they were great at their roles.
I just don't want this comic book thing to be carried over to movies, where for a character's mantle to be passed we have to be rid of the predecessor, like it's a zero sum game and there can only be one.
In the Black Panther case that was not what happened, he was still around in the book and pretty much a co-star in it while his sister was operating as the Black Panther. (At least initially I stopped buying new comics about a year and a half into Shuri run as the Black Panther, and since i restarted I haven't bought much marvel at all )
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@thatguythere
This is accurate, and he retook the mantle after he and Storm divorced. So, yeah. I just figure it'll be something that they can do to pad out the roster if needed. -
I regret waiting so long to see A Quiet Place. THAT SOUND DESIGN.
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@fatefan said in Good or New Movies Review:
Riri Williams
I think if such were realized in MCU, Skai Jackson would have to do the portrayal. Just on principle alone?
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@rinel said in Good or New Movies Review:
@ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:
@rinel said in Good or New Movies Review:
What I did not like was the feeling of "African American culture bad, fictional Wakandan culture good" that I got.
I can't argue with a feeling, but I think you may have missed what the writers were getting at.
What I got was that Wakandans find African American culture "bad" because it was born out of a history of oppression. What I saw T'Challa wrestling with was Wakanda's part in that history. What I understood was that T'Challa discovered and concluded that Wakanda was as responsible for that oppression as the oppressors because they let it happen when they could have intervened and ended it.
I understand that in the abstract and agree with it. But the viewers' interactions with Black Americans are limited to Killmonger, his girlfriend (who gets maybe two lines?), and an assortment of children. Killmonger seems to go heavy on the AAVE dialect when he is engaging in "thuggish" behavior. At best, the movie is putting forward some sort of "Wakandan man's burden," where a fictional country must elevate American blacks through advanced technology and intervention. I don't think any of this was the intended message of the film. It just seemed like it was sort of implied in the way that the director emphasized certain things.
Going outside the text to things the director's said...
He's commented, for one, that between the hero and the villain of Black Panther, a royal warrior from an Afro-futurist utopia vs a kid from the Oakland housing projects, one of the two is slightly easier for him to relate to than the other.
I think that the central issue in the film, the conflict about intervention... so maybe this is going further afield, but. The notion of Wakanda is a hyper-advanced nation in Africa that avoided colonization by Europeans for the entirety of their history. To the director, on the one hand, this is an awesome escapist fantasy. On the other, when you start to worldbuild from the concept, the central question comes around to "well where the hell were they, what were they doing, why didn't they stop it."
So instead of dodging the issue, he made that the central conflict of the film, both in T'challa's personal sense and as the driving motive for the villain.
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@fatefan said in Good or New Movies Review:
@bobotron While I do wonder if Shuri will take over as BP, I could also see her taking up the Iron Man mantle, realizing the comics' Riri Williams/Ironheart character.
That wouldn't be great. First of all, there's no reason why they can't find another young black actress out there rather than lumping multiple characters into one. But Riri's story of her family being killed by gun violence is uniquely American and it's important to her character.
