FCs on Comic MUs

[The Tree of Woe]

During the era in question where we had been debating setting the MUX, the Mutant population was slashed drastically, as in to less than 300 active known mutants on the planet. The arbitrary number for awhile was '198'. Most of those mutants, including some traditional and very nasty foes of the X-Men who had nowhere else to go (Scalphunter comes to mind) wound up with the X-Men on Asteroid M, which they dragged out of the ocean and got running outside of San Francisco. They wound up allying with Namor and the Atlanteans, who were also on the ropes.

[Duckula]

Character squatting/camping: it makes a game look way more active than it really is, and robs others of RP opportunities when those people aren't removed from the characters--either because staff is not willing or refuses to, or players (like has been said earlier in the thread) find ways to cheat the system. I think the solution is while you can't really change players tendencies or behaviors you can change your policies. That said, even if you do, players will pitch fits and cause a lot of trouble if people bump them off of characters they were squatting on, as I've run into personally on a game I play on.

On the game in question a staffer wanted to free up characters that had been squatted on for literal months, like 16+ weeks. They went to the rest of staff and were basically told "It would cause too much trouble, let people request said characters if they want them and the person is idle" so they encouraged folks to request those characters. Of course the problem here is the people who get bumped off said characters /are/ going to find out about it, and then can totally proceed to start trouble for the person who's assumed the alt. Imagine being a new person on a game and getting bitched out because you took up the character that so-and-so only logged in once a month to page chat with another player on that game. Never actually scene.

So basically either staff has to make that call, but what I've been hearing so far in this thread is we can't count on staff to actually take responsibility for such. I've seen a few different wizcores just stop idlebooting/nuking people for just lack of activity so far, or need to do so, at that, it's kind of a depressing trend.

[ThatGuyThere]

@saosmash said in FCs on Comic MUs:

You do have to actually enforce your squatting rule but this is not an insurmountable obstacle.

The issue is usually not enforcement but the fact that ever rule you make up can be technically obeyed while squatting. If it is votes or logs just do the minimum or heck be tricky and do a little more than the minimum, if the rule is 30 days have a scene every 20, etc
Honestly I think the best rule would be an undefinted one though that will angry up the waters about possible favoritism. Something along the lines of "If staff feels a role is not being met the person will be replaced." That prevents the folks from just barely following the rules but also lets someone who wants to play something obscure like Stunt Master (real Marvel hero) not have to worry about meeting requirements since Stunt-y likely doesn't have a lot of people clamoring for his bit, so letting someoen semi-active have him doesn't really hurt a game.

[ThatGuyThere]

@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

Or you could maybe disallow all OOC communication, like an RPI?

My big objection to this is that channels are the best way to quickly learn who I want to avoid. I ain't got the time to waste taking a whole scene to learn this.

[Lithium]

Only problem with limiting OC's to one power per se, is that some powers are inherently more versatile than others.

Telekinesis. Telepathy. Energy Manipulation. Matter Conversion. Etc. Etc.

[Misadventure]

Magic.

[Lithium]

@misadventure I'm pretty sure there's not a mutant power of 'magic'. Magic is a power that some mutants have /learned/ but, not a mutant power in and of itself.

[Thenomain]

So here is a good way to tie up superhero comic fans for hours, if not days:

"If you had any one super power, what would it be?"

Eventually the conversation would come around to: "What is 'one power'?"

The Flash has super-speed, but does he have a second power that increases his response time, and if so then does it also keep him from experiencing the world over 100x faster than anyone else?

What is it in super-strength that also keeps your bones from being crushed from the equal force pushing back against your body when you punch through a wall?

You get the idea.

[ixokai]

@thatguythere said in FCs on Comic MUs:

"If staff feels a role is not being met the person will be replaced."

I find as a rule this is completely impossible to fairly apply. For one thing it means that staff has to actively monitor everything going on in the game, and for any game over five players, that's a ton of work to read logs and evaluate if 'the role is not being met'.

I don't have the time to read everyone's logs and make that kind of evaluation.

I personally have no issue with having a) minimums and b) a rule that meeting only minimums is insufficient. Policing it is not really that hard if you have good code in place. Its not perfect, and for some roles you may want higher standards -- but then you create this perverse incentive to make the more important rules less likely to be played. (Thus, imho, everyone on the same standard is best)

[Lotherio]

@thenomain said in FCs on Comic MUs:

So here is a good way to tie up superhero comic fans for hours, if not days:

"If you had any one super power, what would it be?"

Eventually the conversation would come around to: "What is 'one power'?"

The Flash has super-speed, but does he have a second power that increases his response time, and if so then does it also keep him from experiencing the world over 100x faster than anyone else?

What is it in super-strength that also keeps your bones from being crushed from the equal force pushing back against your body when you punch through a wall?

You get the idea.

I support this exercise. For a couple of reasons.

OCs are not bad, but do believe some folks feel they are a catch all with some players aiming them to be better than FCs and a way to showoff, or they are some attempt to be super versatile in an ingenious way so as to be nearly unbeatable somehow.

Some folks choose FCs that are indeed 'one power' only but have developed a crazy bag of tricks from that one power so as to be better than others and are used as a way to showoff , or they are some attempt to be super versatile ...

You get the idea. I like FCs and OCs (comic or other genre). With an FC, they can have one power and be super versatile though through years of developing tricks that spin off that one power, with an OC individuals try to be just as creative. It gets right back to limit powers on OCs to make FCs better or how to make everyone feel on par, etc. etc. And its comics, really, take turns in the spotlight, take falls from time to time.

And to get at a lot of the topics that have come up, who likes FC, who likes new spins on FCs, who doesn't, who likes to see FCs in new story arcs, who likes to replay old story arcs with twists, whatever ... I'm would rather see more original theme OC places than multi-comic inclusive places that try to merge timelines. I tried a few throughout the years, never my cup of tea. Yet, inversely, more preference is to FCs with spins, twists, new takes, new stories.

[ixokai]

@lotherio said in FCs on Comic MUs:

OCs are not bad, but do believe some folks feel they are a catch all with some players aiming them to be better than FCs and a way to showoff, or they are some attempt to be super versatile in an ingenious way so as to be nearly unbeatable somehow.

I've heard this complaint about OC's before, that people will use them to be "better then FC"'s, and on my vast experience playing/staffing on one comic game in my whole life,... have seen it maybe once.

This might be an app-standards issue? Being an OC isn't a license to do anything you want and throw together a random grab bag of nonsensical powers without limits or flaws.

But we also have a rule that "anything a FC can do an OC can do" and that FC's don't have primacy or win-in-their-role privileges.

We do expect an OC to sort of make sense, in their powerset, though 'sense' can vary by story of the character. (It doesn't have to completely make sense, a pyrokinetic who happens to have one other oddball trait might be fine, where a range of unrelated stuff is not) -- That can't be said to be true for all FC's out there, unfortunately.

[Thenomain]

@ixokai

Do you mean there are games where an original character can't be better than Squirrel Girl?

[ixokai]

@thenomain said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai

Do you mean there are games where an original character can't be better than Squirrel Girl?

I don't quite know what you mean, if you're joking or if I miscommunicated.

There have been games that have rules that state an OC can't beat a FC at what the FC is good at.

So if there's Johnny Storm verses Fireboy the OC, Johnny's fire control must always win/be superior to Fireboy's fire control, by virtue of the fact that he's a FC, and FC's win in their specialty against OC's. We don't do that.

[Thenomain]

@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@thenomain said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai

Do you mean there are games where an original character can't be better than Squirrel Girl?

I don't quite know what you mean, if you're joking or if I miscommunicated.

There have been games that have rules that state an OC can't beat a FC at what the FC is good at.

So if there's Johnny Storm verses Fireboy the OC, Johnny's fire control must always win/be superior to Fireboy's fire control, by virtue of the fact that he's a FC, and FC's win in their specialty against OC's. We don't do that.

I don't know enough about comic books to be able to make a joke with nuance, but it slightly was. I understand Squirrel Girl to be a very low-powered character, and to say that nobody can be better than her at whatever she does just because she's a FC seems nearsighted.

Or the Jan & Zana, the Wonder Twins, in the 80s cartoon Justice League. They were meant to be teens, growing in confidence, not at the peak of their power. Same with the Teen Titans (again, cartoon, again an incredibly awesome show).

The nuance I was trying to get across was that this level of worship of comic characters would absolutely have me hating any game that mixed FC with OC. I hope that character builds are more thought-out than this, but each time I watch a Comic Book Mu* discussion unfold I can no longer assume it.

[Kanye Qwest]

Squirrel Girl is a joke, herself. She's a low powered character that somehow is always unbeatable. Off screen.

[Roz]

@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

Squirrel Girl is a joke, herself. She's a low powered character that somehow is always unbeatable. Off screen.

First of all how dare you

[Lotherio]

My favorite things about comic genre mu*s. A fair number have remained systemless and maintained civility. Most have fairly open policy on PrP, don't break the sandbox and have fun. Most players get the old shared game mentality, everyone takes turns in the spotlight.

What ruins it for me, theme debates, fc vs oc debates, right timelines and wrong, whose game police's better than the others.

I like to think as creative individuals we could have more original themes and homes fit original characters with less shoe boxes and monitoring. As a comic fan I feel @Thenomain 's sentiments. I am staying away from canon games.

[ixokai]

@thenomain said in FCs on Comic MUs:

I don't know enough about comic books to be able to make a joke with nuance, but it slightly was. I understand Squirrel Girl to be a very low-powered character, and to say that nobody can be better than her at whatever she does just because she's a FC seems nearsighted.

Yeah, its a dumb policy.

I mean, I get the reason for it -- its not for an absurd character like Squirrel Girl.

Its for someone who in canon, is "the best" at something. Like, someone who is the best at controlling fire and makes the hottest fire. Some people think that if an OC can be as-good or even better, then that ruins the story of the FC.

I find this entire mindset maddening and counterproductive; I mush to create stories with people. Part of that is I want everyone in a scene to shine and have the chance to be cool.

Why would anyone want to play an OC if they have to lose out to a FC?

The nuance I was trying to get across was that this level of worship of comic characters would absolutely have me hating any game that mixed FC with OC. I hope that character builds are more thought-out than this, but each time I watch a Comic Book Mu* discussion unfold I can no longer assume it.

Personally, on our game at least, we don't have these sort of FC vs OC issues. OC's can be great, they get included in scenes, people RP with them. Most of our players have a mix of FC's and OC's.

I've never played on any other comic game before but from what our OC characters have told me, we're rare that way.

I get why some people don't like FC's, and I get why some people would prefer an OC only game, but I honestly don't see what the problem would be with mixing FC and OC as long as you have sane policies of not treating the FC's as "special".

IMHO, its when you try to "protect" the FC's status in the canon universe into your made up universe that you start running into problems.

[Miss Demeanor]

@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@arkandel said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:

I mean, unless you're Alan Tudyk, you get only one Disney animated character. And you get only one Marvel character.

Chris Evans.

Those movies don't count.

Ahem...

John Goodman, John Ratzenburger, Jodi Benson, Kathryn Beaumont, Eleanor Audley, Phil Motherfucking Harris (Baloo - Jungle Book, Thomas O'Malley - The Aristocats, Little John - Robin Hood), Emma Thompson, Monica Evans, Carole Shelley, Sebastian Cabot, Craig Ferguson, Verna Felton, Barbara Luddy, Sterling Goddamn Halloway ( Mr. Stork - Dumbo, Kaa - The Jungle Book, Adult Flower - Bambi, Cheshire Cat - Alice in Wonderland, Winnie the Pooh - The Adventures of Winnie the Pooh), Bill Thompson, Edie McClurg, David Ogden Stiers, Brad Garrett, JIM CUMMINGS ( Winnie the Pooh/Tigger - Winnie the Pooh, Razoul - Aladdin, Ray - Princess & The Frog), Wallace Shawn, Joan Cusak, John Fiedler, Martha Wentworth, Tony Jay, Mindy Kaling, Richard Kind, Whoopi Goldberg, Jennifer Lewis, Bonnie Hunt, Katie Lowes, Kristen Bell, Idris Elba, Cheech Marin, Jesse Corti, Eva Gabor, Wayne Knight, Bud Luckey, Jennifer Tilly, and Peter Sohn.

All actors/actresses that have played multiple characters in the Disney universe.

[surreality]

Re: alts. If the game allows FC and OC chars, one of each strikes me as best practice. Keeps FC camping to a minimum and encourages broader use, and ideaaly acceptance of, OCs.