Getting Involved (and getting other people involved)

[Silver]

@tragedyjones My basic tips to everybody who wants to create Something Interesting?

1. Make it mundane. Nobody staffwise really cares if it's a normal mortal that does a thing with normal tools and for normal motives we all see on the news every day.

2. Never forget how stupid people are. Your NPCs can be jackhole morons. Sometimes the stupider the better. It is very hard to make an NPC TOO stupid. Trust me, someone out there in RL-land is that bad or worse.

3. Failure is beautiful. When your players fail, it can be hilarious. When your NPCs fail, make it comedy gold. They don't just trip and fall. They trip and fall and knock over a table with six drinks on it, dumping them all over the girls having their night out, two of whom get so angry they start trying to stomp their high heels into your NPC's face.

4. Aquaman's powers suck. Not the modern day, pumped up Aquaman. I mean the pathetic Aquaman on Superfriends from the Filmation cartoons in the early 80's. All he could do was talk to fish. You know what fish say? "Glub." If you have players who think their awesome power is the PERFECT thing in this situation and it genuinely will not work or even help the situation? Don't be afraid to just make it worse. Like if someone wants to do psychometry on a dirty diaper or something. I've seen these things attempted.

There's probably more, but those four about cover it for me.

[Jeshin]

I'd have to agree with the concept that all players are STs. No one if going to cry foul if you have a fly land in your soup and you make a scene about it with a vnpc waiter as a way to liven up a boring bar scene. Just like people probably won't cry foul if you have an NPC bump into you on the street and get into a shoving fight.

When in doubt and you want to spice up a dull scene. Just have bad things happen to your own character to be the catalyst for interaction.

[Pyrephox]

@Jeshin said:

I'd have to agree with the concept that all players are STs. No one if going to cry foul if you have a fly land in your soup and you make a scene about it with a vnpc waiter as a way to liven up a boring bar scene. Just like people probably won't cry foul if you have an NPC bump into you on the street and get into a shoving fight.

When in doubt and you want to spice up a dull scene. Just have bad things happen to your own character to be the catalyst for interaction.

Sadly, yes, some will. Or, and this has been my experience, escalate /insanely/. Like, "pose random NPC on public street being kinda a dick, so Other PC pulls out every supernatural power they have to curbstomp NPC into the pavement for no goddamned reason". Or one random scene where I had my PC in a bookstore, asking about a random book. NPC said, "Sorry, dude, already sold," so the other PC decides to try and turn it into a graphic torture scene to figure out where the book went.

Although the biggest reason why I've become wary of being the Active Person in the scene is because, unfortunately, then people come to expect it, rather than being inspired to reciprocate. I /like/ to run things, to get things moving, to pose fun little world-bits...but when it becomes the expected thing that I Will Entertain You, it's no longer fun. That's not what I'm here for. And worse, because I always sideline my PC when having those things things happen, I don't even really get to play my character.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Pyrephox said:

Although the biggest reason why I've become wary of being the Active Person in the scene is because, unfortunately, then people come to expect it, rather than being inspired to reciprocate. I /like/ to run things, to get things moving, to pose fun little world-bits...but when it becomes the expected thing that I Will Entertain You, it's no longer fun. That's not what I'm here for. And worse, because I always sideline my PC when having those things things happen, I don't even really get to play my character.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I have also kind of become this (though maybe I'll be less embittered about it when my latest hiatus from MU*ing comes to an end, as it always inevitably does). It just gets draining to be That Guy after awhile if your fellow players are too many Not That Guys.

[Luna]

I'm always scared I'll run something lame and no one will tell me it's lame. So if yall promise some feedback I'll do something once I'm approved.

[Jeshin]

Question

If you start up a scene in a book store and someone goes crazy torture madness on the book seller. Would you escalate that to cops showing up? Would you like inform your staff? Would you just have the book seller pass out from stress/fear? That seems like a pretty over the top reaction but I believe it could and has happened.

[Pyrephox]

@Jeshin said:

Question

If you start up a scene in a book store and someone goes crazy torture madness on the book seller. Would you escalate that to cops showing up? Would you like inform your staff? Would you just have the book seller pass out from stress/fear? That seems like a pretty over the top reaction but I believe it could and has happened.

It was a Victorian setting, so I just had my PC run away from the crazy madman, and made a note not to play with that person again.

[Rook]

Hye, @Pyrephox... you RP with some weird, unbalanced, fucking strange people who don't understand cooperative role-play in a realistic environment.

That needs to be an acronym.... or something.

[Pyrephox]

@Rook said:

Hye, @Pyrephox... you RP with some weird, unbalanced, fucking strange people who don't understand cooperative role-play in a realistic environment.

That needs to be an acronym.... or something.

I do play on MU*s, yes.

[Rook]

@Pyrephox That's it! That's what we'll call it.

IDPOMY.

[Sunny]

@Three-Eyed-Crow said:

@Pyrephox said:

Although the biggest reason why I've become wary of being the Active Person in the scene is because, unfortunately, then people come to expect it, rather than being inspired to reciprocate. I /like/ to run things, to get things moving, to pose fun little world-bits...but when it becomes the expected thing that I Will Entertain You, it's no longer fun. That's not what I'm here for. And worse, because I always sideline my PC when having those things things happen, I don't even really get to play my character.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I have also kind of become this (though maybe I'll be less embittered about it when my latest hiatus from MU*ing comes to an end, as it always inevitably does). It just gets draining to be That Guy after awhile if your fellow players are too many Not That Guys.

What I've found that helps me a lot is straight up telling the people I play with: 'I am tired of being That Guy. Can you please do something for me? Otherwise I'm going to burn out.' It's an entirely active process; you need to balance your own needs against others'. Sometimes I ask, and the person just isn't comfortable running stuff, and I say 'that's okay'. Usually, whomever it is will be all sorts of happy to look after me a little bit.

This is actually why people such as Spider or The Clique that Shall Not Be Named are as successful as they are. They run a lot of things that make specific people feel really special. They include them, gathering up a bunch of people who start to rely on them entirely for their fun, and thus when the crazy starts to get out, you have a choice: leave ALL OF THIS RP FUN behind, or put up with the shit?

[Jeshin]

Specifically on getting players to engage as a staffer...

• Consider having an NPC provide them with a reason or the knowledge to become involved. Do they not know that a heist is going down and they're the best lockpicker in the city? Give them some kind of tie-in.

• Consider a rumor system (automated or freeform) that allows for general information to be distributed that has varying degrees of accuracy thus encouraging players to dig into them if their interest is piqued or use that information to find their own tie-in with the plot that is going on.

• Have the illusion of fortune or misfortune bring a player into a plot that is relevant to their personal story for the enrichment of themselves and the story you wanted them to be involved in.

Some of these have varying levels of babysitting going on, but if you're having issues on a playerbase wide scale then a little tender love and care from staff can go a long way to making them feel confident enough to begin finding their own stories.

[Pyrephox]

@Jeshin said:

Specifically on getting players to engage as a staffer...

• Consider having an NPC provide them with a reason or the knowledge to become involved. Do they not know that a heist is going down and they're the best lockpicker in the city? Give them some kind of tie-in.

• Consider a rumor system (automated or freeform) that allows for general information to be distributed that has varying degrees of accuracy thus encouraging players to dig into them if their interest is piqued or use that information to find their own tie-in with the plot that is going on.

• Have the illusion of fortune or misfortune bring a player into a plot that is relevant to their personal story for the enrichment of themselves and the story you wanted them to be involved in.

Some of these have varying levels of babysitting going on, but if you're having issues on a playerbase wide scale then a little tender love and care from staff can go a long way to making them feel confident enough to begin finding their own stories.

Also, a big thing: roll with what the player does. Look. It doesn't matter if you hadn't thought about the kidnapping being witnessed before a PC says, "Hey, I'd like to hit the streets and ask around to see if anyone saw anything." Don't shut that down just because it wasn't the way YOU thought the information would be found. No, not even if the kidnappers had supernatural powers. Respond to the player's efforts to engage with the plot - don't make the player work too hard for plot-required information, or they'll throw up their hands and move on to something that's actually fun.

[mietze]

I think it's important sometimes too to keep in mind/watch out for those folks that loudly proclaim they're being shut out in public, when you know you've bent over backwards to include them, and that sometimes you will be called out by those folks no matter what you do.

I loop people into +jobs, post information as I get it, scene with people about it (though frankly this is reciprocated so rarely I'm always shocked!). And yet, I know now from experience not just on TR but elsewhere that you will still have a handful of people who will say that 'everyone' is 'shutting them out' esp. on staff jobs (even though as most of us know, a lot of times the holdup is slow staff response that simply cannot be helped, and yelling at the players who are also working on it might feel good to the yeller but does nothing at all except for make the wrong people feel bad). Or there will be some acknowledgement that you are trying to loop people in, but now you're controlling/not Doing It The Way I Need It.

So by all means, it's important to at least OOC info share if the culture allows it IMO. Or ask how people feel they'd best be utilized or be looped in! But realize that especially for 3rd party (not you) controlled plots/PrPs that there is a limit to what you can do, and being willing to take on the role of trying to get folks involved/being generous with your info also quite a few times makes you a target (like the customer service rep is a target--you're just the person that they're talking to about their frustration, and even if it's truly not your fault, you are probably going to be the recipient of a lot of vitriol when they're frustrated). I think that is why /some/ people are reluctant to really be open to including folks they don't know.

As an ST I have more control, and I can ASK people about their connections/character. I think the key to involvement as an ST is to make it personal/relevant/tied to the PCs involved. It takes a little more communication sometimes than generic Kill This Here stuff (not always though, and generic plots sometimes give you an insight into the PCs that you can file away for later).

I find it hard to ask for RP. Everyone's got their frailties, and my biggest one, frankly, is rejection. I always assume that people would rather RP with other people than me. I find it hard to join scenes already in progress even if they're public because I just know that I'm bothering people with my lame ass poses. I get flustered easily. 20 years of doing this and it hasn't gotten easier. I feel butterflies in my stomach when ever I ask on chan or even privately for play, even if I know the other person likes me.

But here's the thing. If I want to play, it's still ultimately on me to reach out. IT would be really nice if all those other people would do so, but for all I know they feel the same way. So I make myself do it, rather than assume that they're all ignoring me/hate me/passive aggressively sigh and mope on channels, ect. And sometimes other people do that and I get a break now and then in asking. It's just how things work. I find fair or not as I get older, I find it harder to deal with the hothouse flowers who even state openly on channel or in finger that they'll never ever ask you for RP because they're too shy. (To me, that takes more brass balls than I ever will possess to proactively declare to everyone it's all on them to make sure they get to interact with me, because it's out of my comfort zone. So I admit I will tend to avoid those folks because in my experience not only do they want to be paged first, the only RP they accept is where you are trying to 'draw out' their cool and deep character while very little reciprocity is given and they tend to assume that friendly PCs/PCs of this and that type are just shallow compared to them, ect.)

For me though involvement is largely about ooc attitude. I think having a friendly and open attitude helps lots. I understand why people don't, but if you wall yourself off or make it so that people have to work really really hard to get you involved, and you don't show initiative, I think that can make some of that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Arkandel]

As I've told @EmmahSue before, I would like the concept of "every player is a ST" in the same way as I like "regular PrPs" in general. It'd be great - and it won't happen.

It's simple - most players aren't like that. That's not to say the average person isn't a good roleplayer, far from it - but the average person is not proactive in any sense of the word. The poses' quality can be good, even great, but they'll be responsive to what's already in place, or in extension of it and they will not try to come up with a fresh of circumstances to kick-start new things.

I would have zero issues with someone introducing new elements to a scene we're all already part of but I wouldn't hold my breath. I bring PrPs up because at least they can be systemically encouraged - you can talk about trading them, incentivizing them, advertising them, hyping them. There are things staff (and other players) can do to make sure more of them happen.

[Silver]

@Arkandel said:

It's simple - most players aren't like that. That's not to say the average person isn't a good roleplayer, far from it - but the average person is not proactive in any sense of the word.

Yup. That is exactly the case. The lack of proactivity is a game killer. And those who are proactive end up, at some point and until they get fed up with it, on staff.

[Jeshin]

I'll acknowledge that having players be STs is difficult if I understand the concept of ST accurately. On The Sea of Storms which had a much more group write culture than most MUDs we tried to encourage players to enhance scenes and create roleplay amongst themselves by giving them a guide about "player events". You can see it here if you care too.

It had pretty mixed results. We did see a slight uptick though because players were less concerned about overstepping themselves and getting in trouble with staff. The primary issue that seemed to hold it back besides people not wanting to be "that guy" was they didn't want other players to accuse them of manipulating things to their advantage. The fear of opening ones self up to criticism could be a factor too and it's a hard one to address.

[Misadventure]

BTW if you have active ST type friends, and you realize they are veering into the crazy, you can always start to run more stuff with that group to try to lessen the power of the crazy. People can disagree with the CrayCray and still include them in RP, and still do scenes that make everyone feel special or whatever.

Take back some of that power by giving back to the group! Brain-aikido!

[Arkandel]

I've very rarely seen issues with someone taking too many liberties with NPCs. When it happened at all, it was when those were established ones (the barman at that Elysium) who had been used often and someone commandeered him to have him do something out of character.

It's a theoretical issue and not a practical one, IMHO. I'd gladly pay the price for the occasional nutball in exchange for extra spice of life in RP, but that's not the hold up.

[Misadventure]

Viewable notes at the location. Love em love em love em.

But I am the person who likes populating cafes and coffeeshops around my PCs.