Goetia: nWod 2nd Edition and Crossover - Seeking Staff

Derp · Jul 28, 2015, 5:22 PM

@Tempest said:

also, lol @ specialty in 'dick ripping'

I've seen it. It was glorious.

Man, I kind of want that now.

Also, pretty much +1 everything Tempest and Coin just said re: PvP and such. It sounds like it would be a very boring, staff-intensive game with very little for the characters to actually -do- outside of combat.

And @Cobaltasaurus ... if you wanted a small game, why advertise for it in the first place? Especially with something like the OP, which seems to indicate you do want a large game, because you're already asking for staff help with it. It might be an assumption, sure, but it's not exactly an illogical assumption.

Coin · Jul 28, 2015, 5:25 PM

@Derp said:

@Coin said:

@Tempest said:

also, lol @ specialty in 'dick ripping'

I've seen it. It was glorious.

Man, I kind of want that now.

Also, pretty much +1 everything Tempest and Coin just said re: PvP and such. It sounds like it would be a very boring, staff-intensive game with very little for the characters to actually -do- outside of combat.

Maybe staff intensive is what they're going for. Which would make advertising logical.

And @Cobaltasaurus ... if you wanted a small game, why advertise for it in the first place? Especially with something like the OP, which seems to indicate you do want a large game, because you're already asking for staff help with it. It might be an assumption, sure, but it's not exactly an illogical assumption.

See above. Also, maybe they just felt like advertising. Justification not needed! Especially since they were asking for staff in particular, which is logical if they are building the game still.

Derp · Jul 28, 2015, 5:28 PM

@Coin

That's fair!

Misadventure · Jul 28, 2015, 5:30 PM

Think of it as a small niche matchmaking service.

Lithium · Aug 2, 2015, 3:20 AM

I can see the purpose of open sheets, it would perhaps, make for a more cooperative game, but it could also lead to serious metagaming. The lack of PvP can foster some serious asshattery as well, since there would apparently be no way to punish said asshattery via conflict.

The themes would have to be adjusted, some splats would be completely destroyed (Demons) and others would be completely crazy (Mages with no paradox if everyone believed magic was real now).

It's not a bad idea, just needs some serious thought put into how to handle the inevitable conflict between characters and/or players.

At least in my opinion, for how little that is worth.

The Tree of Woe · Aug 2, 2015, 4:01 AM

Again I ask, what "Crossover"?

TNP · Aug 2, 2015, 4:02 AM

@Lithium said:

The themes would have to be adjusted, some splats would be completely destroyed (Demons) and others would be completely crazy (Mages with no paradox if everyone believed magic was real now).

Umm, no? Because opens sheets change nothing ICly. Knowing someone is a demon OOCly - which I do without seeing their sheets - doesn't mean I know they are ICly. And knowing someone is a mage OOCly doesn't mean my character suddenly believes in magic.

Many genres use open sheets and somehow they manage to avoid devolving into chaos.

Coin · Aug 2, 2015, 5:09 AM

@TNP said:

@Lithium said:

The themes would have to be adjusted, some splats would be completely destroyed (Demons) and others would be completely crazy (Mages with no paradox if everyone believed magic was real now).

Umm, no? Because opens sheets change nothing ICly. Knowing someone is a demon OOCly - which I do without seeing their sheets - doesn't mean I know they are ICly. And knowing someone is a mage OOCly doesn't mean my character suddenly believes in magic.

Many genres use open sheets and somehow they manage to avoid devolving into chaos.

I think they mean more along the lines of being able to metagame by playing in ways influenced by the other person's sheet. As for the latter, you must have missed the bit in the original post about how the veil is gone and supernaturals are out.

TNP · Aug 2, 2015, 5:21 AM

@Coin Ah, I did, yes. It looked in the post as if everything were being tied to open sheets. My bad.

But assholes will metagame no matter what. And they get dealt with, no matter what. Making sure everyone can't have nice things because of a few assholes is never a good idea when there are already existing rules against being an asshole.

As for supernaturals being out, I love the Anita Blake universe and they're out. My favorite game was an AB game. As for how it would affect WoD supers, it doesn't have to. There would still be no need to know who a demon is just that they exist. And as for believing in magic, how many people today truly don't believe in evolution or other scientific theories?

Three-Eyed Crow · Aug 2, 2015, 5:19 AM

@Lithium said:

The lack of PvP can foster some serious asshattery as well, since there would apparently be no way to punish said asshattery via conflict.

Umm.

The lack of PvP has its pluses and minuses, but when has "conflict" punished asshattery? It just leads to different kinds of asshattery. Which you might prefer, and that's fine, but.

ThatGuyThere · Aug 2, 2015, 6:02 AM

Asshattery can be punished socially, it happens all the time on games without PvP someone is a consistant asshat people stop rping with them, without PvP to force interaction they tend to get bored and leave, does it work all the time, no, but then nothing does.
Honestly my biggest issue is the supers being open but I know that is a personal preference one and nothing more.

Lithium · Aug 2, 2015, 6:10 AM

@Three-Eyed-Crow said:

Umm.

The lack of PvP has its pluses and minuses, but when has "conflict" punished asshattery? It just leads to different kinds of asshattery. Which you might prefer, and that's fine, but.

Conflict is at times the only means to determine an outcome that makes sense as a consequence for another individuals' actions. That's what I meant. As someone mentioned: Say someone partook of anothers Ghoul, or slept with their mate, or burned down their place of business, or outed them to the hunters, then what is a suitable response to that?

I am also of the opinion that PvP does not equal Player-Killing. PvP is just conflict, conflict can have many resolutions /besides/ character loss.

A harsh enough resolution to a conflict can definitely punish asshattery, even if it isn't character loss. I personally don't have a fish in this pool so don't have a preference one way or another, just that when people feel immortal, they tend to do stupid shenanigans in my experience. The threat of conflict can sometimes negate conflict.

It doesn't always work, there is no perfect solution, etc etc.

In my experience though when conflict/pvp is not allowed all it does is allow individuals to drive others away because they feel they have no means to address issues that have arisen.

Lithium · Aug 2, 2015, 6:13 AM

@TNP said:

@Lithium said:

The themes would have to be adjusted, some splats would be completely destroyed (Demons) and others would be completely crazy (Mages with no paradox if everyone believed magic was real now).

Umm, no? Because opens sheets change nothing ICly. Knowing someone is a demon OOCly - which I do without seeing their sheets - doesn't mean I know they are ICly. And knowing someone is a mage OOCly doesn't mean my character suddenly believes in magic.

Many genres use open sheets and somehow they manage to avoid devolving into chaos.

My comment about adjusting themes had nothing to do with open sheets there, it had to deal with the way demons respond to people knowing about them, who they are, what they are doing etc.

I admit my knowledge of demon in GMC is limited at best, but the theme of everyone knowing about everything is kind of harsh on Demons in particular. That's all.

3543thrh67 · Aug 2, 2015, 2:17 PM

@Lithium Wait... How does no PvP=No conflict? There was nothing said about no conflict. I have solved many things without PvP at all.

The Tree of Woe · Aug 2, 2015, 4:21 PM

And how do you propose to rein in players whose first impulse in any confrontation is to leap to the combat dice?

3543thrh67 · Aug 2, 2015, 4:24 PM

It has been pointed out previously that it is unlikely those sorts will stay on the game. The people who want to PvP will go somewhere else.

ThatGuyThere · Aug 2, 2015, 5:24 PM

@The-Tree-of-Woe
You tell the player that is not how things work in this place, and if they cannot fit in then gently or not so gently show them the door.
While Gany and I disagree on many things one thing we fully agree on is that games should be dictatorships. If you have a stated policy and a player refused to comply I fail to see how PvP rp solves it better then actually sitting down the player and telling them what kind of game they are on.
Granted I am not associated with this game at all, but this sort of set up is pretty common in the the MU world though not so much in the WoD sections.
Now will the WoD player base accept an attempt at a different culture or will it all end in tears who knows but I do wish them the best of luck and always appreciate attempts at something a bit out of the ordinary.

Deleted · Aug 3, 2015, 3:44 AM

I think this game has potential to be good, even though it's not something I would personally enjoy.

Though it does have me kind of wanting to open a game that has full OOC masq in effect. Because I always loved the mystery of not knowing what to expect from people I meet.

3543thrh67 · Aug 3, 2015, 4:16 AM

I don't think anyone would be forcing you to look and see what a person would have?

Monogram · Aug 3, 2015, 1:20 PM

Sounds almost like FS3 type system. Most of those type games I've been on, I think all of them had open sheets. I remember the first one I was on, Steel and Stone, it was a bit weird...but eventually, you stop even bothering to look. The novelty wore off after a week or so. Or at least, that was my experience.