Posts made by Apos

@thenomain It's degrees though, and it's about showing mindfulness and courtesy when voicing disagreements. Like for example, we all know these are not the same:

1. "I disagree with the implementation of this code, I think it is inelegant"
2. "This code is total fucking dogshit. The coder who made it should quit and never do anything again, this is fucking hilariously terrible."
3. "I admire many aspects about the coder's intentions, but I ultimately think this is a flawed approach, ehre's why:"

I think #2 absolutely deserves someone to be a dick back. Sure, you could argue their opinion is valid, but they have done nothing to warrant it being taken seriously.

@thenomain said in RL Anger:

This one is truly an RL concern of mine, though anyone active on the forum today can guess where it stems from. Well it's more than that.

It's okay if someone hates something that you like.

It's okay. They are just one person. You are allowed to like things that other people don't. They are allowed to not like things that you like.

Yeah, but it's the same thing to me as telling someone, 'it's okay to be rude'. Like, for example, we know it's rude to go up to someone and say, 'I don't like your friends and family' or 'I don't like your religion' or 'I don't like anything that you value deeply and define yourself by'. There's common courtesy that dictates that if you tell someone that you dislike something that's deeply meaningful to them, you do so in a way that's conscious of that, or you are willing to deal with them being pissed off about it.

Like, there's a balance of burdens in people not being offended by someone's opinion, and other people wanting to be abrogated of all responsibility in showing a shred of thought in courtesy about whether what they are saying is hurtful to someone else. And a lot of people are tired of allowing people to be rude through thoughtlessness, and while that's certainly better than being rude through intentional, willful cruelty, it's still not great.

@cobaltasaurus said in Arx on github:

It’s really tempting to grab this and run (as it is I have some stuff I do want to take I just haven’t had a chance to install more than basic code), but I’ve been a little bit worried about seeming to be an “Arx clone” if we went with the same diceroller / system stuff even with changes we’d need to make for our particular thematics.

I mean it's never going to be fun to have some person who denigrates your work dismiss it in some way, and I can really understand wanting to avoid them, but I think it's very important to try to separate yourself from unfair criticisms as much as possible. If you think it would help you at all to do it, then I would. There's never going to be any winning in trying to placate the negative influences on the hobby, and trying means no one will ever do anything.

I'd just go through the code and identify, 'this is stuff I'd replace' and consider commenting it out, so you don't get to a spot where you are trying to create complex data migrations due to things being stored in the database using existing stuff you think doesn't fit your game. Otherwise, why not? Learning how to change a lot of the stuff to work in a way you want might be one of the best ways to learn Python, as you get practical experience in fixing things.

Let me just say that Tekmonkey/Nemesis, Rick Sanchez, Elsa and others are posters there and didn't particularly stand out.

Their forums were significantly more hostile than MSB's, imo. It pretty much was a half dozen game owners that loathed each other posting regularly.

@magee101 A constructive way to say this would be to maybe suggest narrowing the scope of the project down in the short term to make it more manageable, with suggestions that the OP might find useful. For example saying that if they feel overwhelmed, maybe just focus on the characters and the most basic elevator pitches for them and how she sees them interacting.

I don't think there is any case when telling someone that they should give up on a creative project is helpful or constructive, unless they are specifically asking for your opinion on whether it is worth the investment of their time.

Yeah she was great. I know she mentioned being super, super busy irl, but hopefully she pops back if she ever has time.

@magee101 said in A (Mildly Complete) List of Current Games:

@zaroot said in A (Mildly Complete) List of Current Games:

Star Wars Dawn of Defiance is still active: http://swdod.com/Main_Page

"active" is a very loose phrase. I've checked on the place from time to time, it's mostly idle people.

I'm not sure we want to go down a rabbit hole of debating whether games are active. I think if the owners feel it qualifies, we leave it at that, whether it has 6 players or 600.

Well it's kinda like if there was a thread debating about like, whether holocaust denial was protected speech and then someone chimed in saying the board was too left leaning and unfriendly. I mean. It might be. They might have a point. But that's a really, really weird place to bring it up that has some uncomfortable associations. That's an extreme example but I hope you can see what I'm getting at and why I'm like, 'whoa hold up buddy, that's not really a political thing' to me. Obviously slurs are nowhere near as bad but like, I just don't think that's a political thing.

@faraday Yeah sorry for context it started from the hogpit because someone got called a cunt and then lectured on it about social awareness and called SJW back and so on, basically what you'd expect.

@templari But you're literally posting on a thread about slurs saying that pushback against saying slurs makes you feel uncomfortable as a moderate, when I'm a moderate and think that is dumb. So I mean, if you're not saying that, it's kind of off topic, no?

@templari But it's just not a political view. I'm a moderate and it would even be a stretch to say I'm center left on a lot of issues. It makes me uncomfortable when people make trump jokes outside of the political forum. But whatever man, if you say being polite or showing like basic courtesy to people falls on the hard left then I dunno what to tell you.

@templari Like I get that dog piling sucks and someone probably doesn't need 8 different people all telling them they are terrible or whatever but it depresses me beyond measure that 'please don't use slurs if I ask you to stop' is considered a political stance.

@prototart said in A (Mildly Complete) List of Current Games:

@arkandel said in A (Mildly Complete) List of Current Games:

Folks ignore the fact ours is a shrinking hobby because they can personally get RP, or they've personally helped someone new get into playing (which is great, btw, don't get me wrong) despite how playerlists are becoming shorter and more games shut down than get opened

so

yeah

I don't think people ignore it. I think almost everyone is keenly aware of it, but everyone's influence largely ends at their own game if they are a game owner, and most players feel very little to no ownership over improving the hobby and have limited ability to do so. And I think most people just don't want to spend their fun time policing other people that aren't super over the top problematic, even when those people are intensely alienating to new players not willing to just deal with them.

@surreality that is because it always turns into, "hey could you not use that word, I don't like it" and someone responds with "no, fuck you snow flake, I do what I want." Then is shocked when they are called an asshole.

I'm optimistic, really. We have challenges, both cultural and technical, and an often hostile community that doesn't really provide a good foundation for games to succeed, and knowing all the shortcomings, I'd expect I would be pessimistic about the future, but I'm just not. There's a lot of roleplayers out there in newer generations, and MUs as a format still offer some things other games just can't. Brand new players are rare, but they do happen. I'm newer, after all, relatively speaking.

Complete transparency of expecting people to roll with ooc knowledge in a way that doesn't effect their play works pretty much the same as pure consent games, and it's a very similar argument- 'we don't need systems to decide outcomes or arbitrate things since good roleplayers will be reasonable adults'. Keep in mind, I enjoy pure consent games, but they have a very different feel, and I think the same is true for transparency vs hidden.

I consider good players going too far and handicapping themselves as a more consistent but less noticeable problem than bad actors. The chill, reasonable people will take falls all the time to not make a fuss even when they would never need to do that if they didn't oocly know information in advance, or if dice rolls would have declared them a victor.

Well I think @faraday is right in that there's some apple/oranges going on because people think of very different things with sheets and they are used in really different ways. I mean they can be used in narrative games to have secrets where reveals and discovery is part of the fun, and the pacing of stories, and in those games there's a lot of necessary concealment just for fun. It would no more sense in those games to reveal a sheet than it would be to tell everyone the ending of movies or books.

In other places that are PRP driven it's necessary for players to communicate oocly about information in order to effectively run things. And in other places again with a more competitive vibe then it can become vital to have clear distinctions between what is ICly justifiable and what's not. I don't think there's a one size fits all, but I do think it's important for games to kind of customize what's accessible based on the mood they want to have and what behavior they expect from players.

@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:

@rizbunz Being supportive of players is very important, for sure. I don't like to be downer either, but I think pink-tinted goggles haven't ever helped a game before, so I thought I might share my experiences.

Players will not ever not be players. If you think like this, you'll be prepared for the worst, and pleasantly surprised when The One surprises you.

A lot of people on MUs play Who-Cares-More chicken, with players or staff driving a Work And Investment car at one another and seeing who will actually do more work and make things more fun, and the person that does that gets screwed when the other person inevitably abandons it or treats it carelessly.

@sunnyj I think it is challenging but possible, even if people need realistic expectations about it.