Posts made by Arkandel

It's not really an 'anger' thing, but that's because I don't know what the appropriate emotion is for something like this.

I was reading an article on my Facebook feed about the anniversary of the massacre of Kalavryta where basically Nazis executed a whole bunch of civilians in retaliation for the local resistance.

What got my attention from that is the story of an Austrian soldier among them who opened the door of the burning school building they had put women and children and allowed them to escape. When the German General (Karl von Le Suire - he didn't end very well, since he died in captivity after Stalingrad, which I'm okay with) found out he had him summarily executed.

So this is what gets me though. There's no mention of that soldier's name anywhere. He did something insanely brave at great personal risk - and he's just "that Austrian soldier".

@Ghost

@Kestrel said in Good TV:

@Admiral said in Good TV:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/orlando-jones-has-reportedly-been-fired-from-american-g-1840432889

Well that's a shame, I liked that show, and he was the best part of it. Guess I won't be watching Season 3 and onwards.

EDIT: Scratching my head here as to why anyone would make this decision. Did they read the book? Did they read that chapter in New Orleans? Why on Earth would anyone think Mr Nancy's speech was "too much" for a show based on this book?

Why would they fire an actor for the lines he spoke? Did he act them out badly?

@ZombieGenesis What about the Dark Side in general?

For example let's say you start as Force-sensitive or even a Jedi but then you slip and start kicking puppies. What's next?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/american-gods-actor-orlando-jones-184944412.html

It's one of those things that will either die without a whimper or will cause a huge uproar.

@Auspice said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

Ending up in a plot and finding out you can't do anything of worth because the 'difficulty' has been scaled way too high is really unfun.

That's the actual problem - it's not XP, it's XP gaps. And it's a preventable problem when staff don't get in their own way about solving it.

To create a gap there need to be some generations 'missing' between dinos and newbies. Typically the way this happens is that the game launches under a set of rules which turns most players off. The ones that style is suited for stick around and accumulate XP. Anyone else who joins after is already behind and won't catch up. note most nWoD MU* simply wither away around this point.

As @Ganymede said this isn't really a blocker for advancement if a player is determined and skilled. What it is a blocker for (and the reason it's actually a problem) is cohesive storytelling - suddenly as a ST you are trying to aim your plots at two much different demographics and that's not a trivial challenge to handle, especially given how most plots use physical threats as their villains.

Dogmatically doubling down on systems that don't work is not the answer here.

@Derp said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

If you're using aspirations as a passive tool that just requires more paperwork, then you aren't actually using them to good effect.

I get it. You like aspirations and there's nothing wrong with that, or with using the code to file them.

My point here is that there are players - many - who don't. You don't get to fix people until they fit your system, though. No amount of explaining why this would be good for them if only will do any good past a certain point.

You have to either accept they won't (which is a legitimate option) or try to diversify the XP 'incomes' so that different playstyles are supported. Then, assuming there are diminishing returns so super competitive/active players don't break the bank, each can use whatever works for them and coexist on the same game; some go participate in PrPs, others use aspirations, etc.

Donnie Darko. If anyone hasn't watched it, it's amazing.

@Derp said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

The quoted part, though, I'm not so sure about. That's like saying 'players don't like being in scenes, and shouldn't get advantages over those that do'.

What's to be uncertain about the idea two people can be in the same scene but only one of them likes to file aspirations about it afterwards?

@Ganymede said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

For a MUSH, I don’t really mind if the Aspiration system were pulled, but you really have to have Conditions for CoD to work properly.

I think it works fine. There's no reason to not have it there, especially since there are legitimate uses for it.

The thing is many players don't like filing for things on a near constant basis. That gives an advantage to those who do.

The answer should be a system that rewards XPs in different ways and caps or puts the weekly behind diminishing returns so some players can't dip their toes into every pool to get ahead.

@Livia said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Pyrephox said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

Depends on how much RP I get. The only CoD game I'm on, getting any RP at all is pretty hard, and I've been faded myself with work stuff, so none in the last few weeks. But before that? 3-4 a week, assuming a scene a day. Fewer scenes, usually fewer Aspirations (although sometimes you get lucky!)

I get that it varies, based on activity and availability, sure. But that still feels like so much 'paperwork' to me.

YMMV.

My experience is that a significantly smaller number of people files for aspirations at all than those who do.

The ironic thing about that is, on games with a limited XP 'income' in general that alone creates disparities due to diminishing returns.

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

One advantage discussing the system has over 'PRP' is that the system is something you can easily look at and evaluate while the PRP support of a hypothetical game, not so much. Everyone is always going to say their game is going to have amazing plot and plenty of support for PRPs but that doesn't usually shake out in practice for a host of reasons.

Okay, that's a fair point. You can count on your system's strengths but you can't (and history shows, shouldn't) rely on the good will of STs to stay active and run the things they promised they would.

@Ganymede said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

The exact mechanics, XP availability, city selection and aspirations code aren't very significant in terms of making a flagpole game.

What's a flagpole game?

I don't want to define it in the context of this thread since that's for the OP to determine. The way I took it though it's a game aimed for a 'greater audience' - something that's meant to be popular and appeal to a greater number of players rather than be a niche, intimate MU*.

IMHO staff selection, plot availability and setting (meaning making different interesting concepts available, so think 'post apocalyptic' or 'dark ages' rather than 'Chicago') are all far, far more impactful.

I think this is a truism. If you have good staff, good plot, and a good setting, people will tolerate the clunkiness of a system; conversely, if you have a good system that people like people will tolerate deficiencies in staff, plot, and setting. If you take the four different parts I think you could fairly debate that strength in one or more will off-set deficiencies in the others. So I don't think the opinion is really going to spark a meaningful or spirited debate.

The reason I brought those elements up was to argue that the emphasis in nWoD games often is on things that matters less (pick-a-City-of-Darkness, XP availability, exact mechanics) but the three things you just named - setting, staff and plot.

I do disagree that there's no meaningful debate to be had about the importance of plot availability since there has been in this thread. Opinions do differ, and I can respect that. My take for example is that PrP-runners are among the most important assets a game can possibly have, yet not everyone consents.

These days modern codebases matter.

But this was always the case. We used to have spirited MOO v. PennMUSH v. TinyMUX debates.

The difference between any of those is trivial compared to being able to play the game over a web browser with rich text, have automated scene logging and posting on integrated wikis, automated combat, etc.

Please keep in mind @tragedyjones' note was about settings, not mechanics. The original argument and counter was whether original themes worked and whether their complexity was what would ultimately hold them back.

Conditions, aspirations etc do very little to affect that.

@tragedyjones said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Arkandel This is more a complaint about people but there is rarely enough reward to creating a compelling setting. The more you ask players to read and understand the less they seem to do. This is why it is so much easier to do a modern American city than anything remotely different. In my years I have seen many players not be too familiar with the lore in the books much less the custom background of your game.

I don't know TJ. I mean... I see what you're saying and yes you're right historically but then I raise you Arx; it's crazy complicated (people playing there for years post they still don't know enough about the setting) but it's also crazy popular.

So perhaps it's not the idea that's not worked for nWoD but the way it was implemented, maintained, curated and got buy-in from players.

Related, for those that do make the effort it can make things all the more frustrating when others don't. If I make a setting accurate character and everyone else is basically just a modern person in vague period attire, I lose interest.

I quite agree with that. One of my favorite MUSHes in recent years in that regard was... damn I forget the name. Haven maybe? @2mspris' game. It had crazy potential as a post-apocalyptic The Reach sequel then within a few weeks I found myself sighing at the same kinds of characters played by the same player the same way as ever; birthday parties (what resource starvation?), ex-US army snipers galore, etc.

Up's first five minutes are er, up there with any romantic movie ever made. Change my mind.

Is this an unpopular opinion? The exact mechanics, XP availability, city selection and aspirations code aren't very significant in terms of making a flagpole game.

IMHO staff selection, plot availability and setting (meaning making different interesting concepts available, so think 'post apocalyptic' or 'dark ages' rather than 'Chicago') are all far, far more impactful.

Second opinion: these days modern codebases matter. An Ares nWoD MUSH would be something to see.

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

In my opinion that kind of pre-scheduled 'plot scene' is almost universally horrible for everyone involved because it's just too many players in the same place at the same time. Unless the game is extremely small, I think it makes more sense to handle the plot like Arx does it where it by and large happens discreetly through bluebooking, private scenes and story emits.

Actually very few things scale on a MU* as well as PrPs do. One Storyteller can run scenes for 3-5 people and plant story seeds and hooks that can last them for days or weeks (which I can attest to since I've been on both sides of that equation).

I think you are making the assumption here that there will be a very limited number of PrPs and a very small number of STs all running unrestricted scenes. This doesn't need to be the case - it's perfectly within a ST's prerogative to limit how many characters can join their PrP, and for staff to stagger the players involved so the same super-active people don't show up for every single one.

While it sounds attractive to have all the 'cool powers' I think that it isn't really great for the game for everyone to run around with enormous powers. It makes it much harder to create engaging plotlines and ensure that the local setting makes some amount of sense. World of Darkness works a lot better as a MU* when players are on the lower end of the power scale imho.

Obviously I can't argue your preference. My argument though is that what typically causes issues isn't power per se but a disparity between characters' power levels which is a separate issue. Yes, if you have two people with 20 XP spent and another two who've spend 50 XP it's a problem when it comes to balancing the encounter, but I believe the answer is not to run a poverty game where everyone is equally inept.

Also consider this: There are many games (including ones running right now) where some people are far more powerful than others despite XP starvation because they can milk aspiration XPs better.

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

XP is not the problem. It's a paper tiger. It's idleness that kills game after game. This cannot be fixed via systemic changes, it requires active recruitment of STs and promoting those plots aggressively.

I don't think ST run plots are quite that required. As RfK showed while it was around and Arx is demonstrating right now, you can really drive a lot of RP by giving players the feeling they're controlling some aspect of the game world and get to engage in some amount of meaningful politics with eachother over it. It does require you to have people willing to set up a large amount of code for you however.

Do not underestimate the effect regularly having 60+ active players around has on being able to find stuff to do.

That's not the case for most nWoD games which peak in... the 40s range? And usually have 20-30 players on.

See the issue isn't whether there's a ST explicitly tossing plot around. It's the idea that players know in advance plot is available and, more importantly, when it will happen. There's a time and a place involved, so if they show up they are going to participate in... something.

Many nWoD games are caught in a perpetuating trap of mutually assured inactivity when you log on, look around, find nothing to do and go idle (or log off) then I log on, look around... and so on.

Limiting XP doesn't do anything positive and it might even damage their potential by placing the upper half of cool powers out of reach for the first few months on MU* which effectively won't last for that long anyway.

Aspirations don't fix it either because although they are organic they require interesting RP to be happening in the first place whereas PrPs both generate and reward RP at the same time.