Best posts made by Bobotron

@sunnyj

The problem is the players, on a wide scale. The themes of Sabbat really need to be enforced and codified on a game where they are supported; sandboxy stuff just doesn't do it (just like sandboxy stuff doesn't make Camarilla politicking work well at all). Also, different people have different expectations about Sabbat because of how they were weaned into it. I play in a Sabbat LARP RL that exemplifies this problem, with people ranging from 'what we gonna keel tonight?!' through 'We have things that need to be done as a diocese' to 'FUCK YOUR HIERARCHY IMMA VAMPRE IMMA DO WHAT I WANT'.

Focus is the key. I feel like the V5's Gehenna Crusade setup, where there may have been a Fourth Sabbat Civil War (unconfirmed, but hinted at/implied in Beckett's Jyhad Diary) and them ACTUALLY getting to do what they're meant to do (go fucking kill ancients and Antediluvians) will make Sabbat easier to manage.

@Luna
That's just bettas. We had one that did that. He just chilled on the bottom of his bowl. He lived for a long time, too.

@Songtress said:
I've wondered how a Vampire Hunter D-style 'post apocalypse, decadent high-tech vampire society' would work.

@surreality
All this is well and good, but...

1. This requires players to understand that they CAN do this and NOT be bothering staff, and a willingness to do so.
2. It requires staffers to actually be present, around and able (or in some cases, WILLING) to adjudicate these situations.

How often do we have whinging about both points on this forum? Staff availability is the biggest culprit, from what I see.

@Ganymede
And yet, the whole 'match of wits and writing,' on a game that has a social stat system, then turns right back around into 'Roleplaying Stats Not On Your Sheet' which I think the majority of us have said we find bad sport. And again, we swing back around to devaluing the purchase and, to be blunt, purpose of those skills and stats.

If Player A's stats posit them as a socially mousy guy with no oratory skills, that should be their default mode; if Player B's stats posit them as a social powerhouse with a silver tongue equivalent to Frank Abagnale, Jr. then you should TRY to RP that, and our stats should be used appropriately to back up your concept.

@Ghost
I agree there re: 'playing the player'. This is also why I try to preach 'good metagaming,' which boils down to OOC player trust and willingness to compromise between players, even to a character's loss.

@Arkandel
Re: 'three types of systems'
Eh, this won't get rid of metagaming; it'll just drive the people who metagame and handling loss other ways, vis a vis murderface.

@Thenomain
Well, I had read some interviews and saw some youtube videos of LARPers who went to the Nordic-style LARPs that were based on WoD (Convention of Thorns, and End of the Line) and I spoke briefly with a friend who does a variety of Nordic-style parlor LARPs a long time ago about the ones she plays in. Here are some things that are commonplace between all of them:

• The biggest concept of the game style is collaboration. People coming into these Nordic LARPs come in to build and collaborate on interesting stories, and come in on the same mindset to do so. It's a mindset that drives how people act, even when they are opposed in game.
• There is a great attempt to manage Bleed and metagaming. For EotL, one of the things that was reportedly done was a pre-game 'I am <player> and I will be <character>' in order to sort of center yourself as 'the Character,' and the reverse was done at the end of the game with 'I was <character> and now I am <player>'. Great attempts were made to keep IC as IC.
• The core mechanic of the entire game could really be boiled down to: If everyone involved agrees that something goes down a certain way, that’s the way it goes down. Again, we swing back to collaboration.
• Mechanics were mainly used to: Emulate some facet of the world that is entirely un-actable or ensure the comfort and safety of all participants. In mechanical comparisons in EotL, it was 'highest stat wins' and collaboration on the outcomes. In CoT, it was very similar, along with how you verbally presented. To Dominate someone, you would tell the person 'I really want you to X' and you changed your verbiage to show your capability with the power.

Too Long... here's the article in question from a LARPer who attended: https://aeriondyseti.com/2016/09/08/end-of-the-line-part-one-introduction-liminality-and-mechanics/

The biggest takeaway? Collaboration and cooperative methodology is the key point of all of these things. Even the weird stuff like the Dr. Who LARP, or the 1940's housewife LARP, or the Not-Harry Potter LARP functions on this. It's why I don't forsee it being a good buy for a MUSH, because for every two people that are awesome about the collaboration, you have one person who is In It To Win It.

@wizz

In Ohio

Cleveland is, IIRC, another canonical Hellmouth.

And every day I thank my lucky stars that I stopped doing Cam LARP and only do/run local troupe LARP now. The lack of insanity has been hyper-refreshing. Despite having about 40 regular players, I think the most social weirdness we have is a couple of young guys (19-21) who have some social awkwardness (poor David, wants to play a political character and is trying, but he gets nervous and stutters when he has to speak in front of the big crowd since he's the defacto Brujah leader, but he gets it done).

I guess I'll chalk it up to the majority of our crew being in their mid-late 20s/early 30s on up, with some of these younger kids being new, but really good players (even our one kid who is always 'jumps in feet first, with feet covered in concrete tied to anchors' often without considering character stuff, though he is trying sometimes).

I think my worst LARP horror stories come from the ICC -- International Camarilla Conclave -- events in the Camarilla. I helped out with security once and trying to ensure people aren't diddling in the stairwells (and in the pool, and in the hallways, and in EVERYWHERE) gets really tiring. Combined with the fact that, at one con, the actual con staff had to announce 'please use your showers, you have a hotel room, it has a shower, please be kind to everyone around you' setup, it turned me off from large cons. That and the people who have no anything outside of the Camarilla and so get insane OOC when they don't get their way IC.

@Songtress
It's complicated, but vampires in the setting breed with each other and humans though dhampir are rare. They also bite and true Nobles can turn a human completely. Vampires are born via natural birth and age to a specific point and then essentially stop.

D, for example, was born in the 1990s. Current year is the series is 12,090 AD.

@mr-johnson

Honestly, you're doing yourself a disservice to look at Requiem through Masquerade's lens. There's plenty of awesome stuff in Requiem just as there is in Masquerade. Comparing it apples to apples is not fair to you trying it out. I've found that more or less every concept I could make in Masquerade, I can make with as much (and in many cases, more) versatility in Requiem.

@seraphim73

You win the internet!

Supergirl continues to get better and better...

You could wait for Dark Eras to finish or find the backer material maybe.

Anyway, I'm going to wish this place good luck! Sadly I can't get into the 2e NWoD myself, as much as I love 1e. Too much difference. But if they can make something that isn't Sandbox by Night fly, that'll be good for the community.

@Coin
WELCOME TO MY LIFE!!!!

@tinuviel
Just an FYI for that, White Wolf has taken down the subnet and Reference Desk because of copyright reasons. I think a lot of the 'caring about it' is having the system actually in use, as none of this C&D happened until Paradox bought White Wolf and actually plan for a bigger type of release than just 'one book every eight or so months' that is OPP's scheduling.

My own two cents? Try to create some things for players to do that don't require staff. One thing I always loved seeing on older games was a rumors or plot hooks board with 'there's a thing! It's open for people to do stuff with!'

@tragedyjones
Hahahahaha. I can recommend The Originals as a spin-off of the Vampire Diaries; I watch it and I get the vibe that I actually would like to see in a multi-sphere game. Plus even standalone it's like watching the Carthians be insane, while there are Invictus and maybe a Brood floating around.

@thenomain
Yeah, but you're also going to the most extreme point. But much of this also comes from the discussion of 'player agency'. I'm not talking about 'seduce to typefuck,' but things like 'I'm going to use social-fu to get you to back me to be Duke/get the password to the secret society/to plant this evidence against Lord Farfignuten' and people are extremely against the idea that they can be manipulated AT ALL. Unless you're just saying enforce FtB just like 'HP = 0 = unconscious' and have it otherwise notated, IE: Social HP = 0 = You plant the evidence/give false testimony against Farfignuten via this +note that is enforced on you by staff'.

@Ganymede
I applaud the intent there. Honestly, just outright banning the skeevy behaviors under social conflict is a generally better option than most anything. I hope you have luck in getting the things along the lines of your laid out 'gossip campaign/vote against your own interest/whatever' angle to actually work out.

@Usekh
I was thinking about you the other night Usekh. I'm glad to see you're still around and still trucking along. Much good vibes and luck, as always.

If this doesn't need to go here, please move, @Glitch or @Thenomain.

I figured it's time to put my money where my mouth is. I want to open up a CWoD MUSH. I have a fair bit of development done, but I'm now at the point where I need a couple of dedicated staffers, in addition to my idea bouncing board guy, to finish developing aspects of the setting that I have baselines for, as well as people generally interested in a CWoD MUSH to help out. So, a little bit about the MUSH...

Basics

The plan for the MUSH is to have two avenues for play:

• Vampire the Masquerade, focusing on Cam/Anarch/Independent in a modernized update of the pre-Revised timeline (so Week of Nightmares, Assamite Schism, and a number of other events haven't happened). For those interested, sorry, Sabbat will be limited to NPCs only; I feel that having Sabbat and Cam/Anarch/Independent in the same city is just asking for the game to die in fire and napalm. C/A/I also gives us a good political base to play with, with a heavily Camarilla city, with some Anarchs moving this way after successful control of areas in nearby Los Angeles, and Independents playing wildcard to everyone.
• Mortals focusing on a large mortal family in the vein of Dark Shadows or the anime When Seagulls Cry, dealing with the family's expansive business and deeply disturbed supernatural history; and an experimental conglomeration of the three major CWoD hunter groups dealing with a shared set of apocalyptic omens. This gives us focus without having to divide mortals up into crime/law/etc. which can sometimes dilute focus. Within mortals there is also the option for Psychics and Hedge Wizards (handled in the same manner that NPCs of those types are handled, by using Disciplines for those powers' mechanics)

In this, I hope to present a set of focused venues with plots for each (you could consider Vampire, Family, and Hunters separate venues, with reasons to interact and reasons to NOT interact, in the case of 'hunters do not just go murder all the vamps').

Setting

The setting is set up to be a fictionalized deep water inland port, taking the place of Stockton California and altering the history and setup of the area to account for the founding family, the Camarilla's presence and Anarch Movement's inward momentum. I want to pull elements from a lot of supernatural media sources, including The Vampire Chronicles, Dark Shadows, American Gothic, Supernatural, Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel and others.

As far as the initial setup, I plan to start out with a set of NPC leadership in place amongst the organizations (so an NPC Prince and Primogen; an NPC family head for the family; NPC triumvirate for the hunter group) and as the game grows, allow players to slide into those slots if they so choose. These will likely be played by staff or staff-appointment in order to handle consistency, but likely just by staff.

Characters will be apped in two ways: simple online chargen that makes a base build character per the book (which is build + 30 XP). I am also weighing the idea of adding in Advanced Slots, or characters that start with higher XP but are beholden to the game to help push things IC.

Otherwise, characters are apped using the book build, including all rarities. So if someone wants to be something odd like a Lasombra Antitribu or a Daughter of Cacophony, they can; they're already paying points to do so, and it's not going to break the setting.

System

For a server, we'll be using the latest version of PennMUSH ('cause that's what I'm familiar with and what I'm comfortable using).

I have developed this to use the new Mind's Eye Theatre: Vampire the Masquerade. I have been using it in LARP for nearly two years now and I feel that, as much as it supports a large-scale game like a LARP, it would be great to use in a MUSH. For those concerned, this is not Laws of the Night MET, this is the new Mind's Eye Theatre system put out by By Night Studios. Some major changes include: no more deprecating traits, no more Retest ad infinitum (generally there is one retest per challenge, with two specific exceptions when there are more than just that one, and only for the challenge loser), and new mechanical benefits based on the Generation/Social Class you play (Neonate, Ancillae, Pretender Elder, Master Elder, Luminary Elder), and a really cool (and mechanically useful!) update to the Status System.

For Vampire itself, there's also a method of 'you can have cool stuff, but not ALL the cool stuff' in the form of Merits and Rarity Merits; you have limitations of how many Merit points you can have, and things like Uncommon and Rare clans (so playing a Lasombra Antitribu, for example) is covered in that; it allows for people to play those things, and I plan on using it. It has shown to hold up in a 20-30 person LARP without having to add additional limitations, and I feel it will work well for a MUSH. Other awesome stuff is in Merits too, such as extra Disciplines, visions of the future, Thaumaturgy training and a lot of other stuff. It also promotes cooperation, as one guy can't have ALL THE THINGS to do everything by himself. For those curious, players will be able to use the Alpha and Beta documents to play; if you buy the book, that's awesome and my plan is to float people who do that extra XP as well.

Why?

I feel like there's space out there for a CWoD game with a specific focus and a specific goal. One of those goals for this game is the word focus.

There are plenty of 'play anything you want' games, and I would like to present an option with a focus, both for Vampire and Mortals, to allow people to play out focused stories and plots, without the necessity of cross-venue interactions, but also allowing for those inevitable cross-venue interactions.

In Closing...

So, this is my goal. I'm looking for a couple of individuals who would be interested in assisting with this (particularly in additional development for the Mortals venue). I can code without issue (and more or less everything needed is done as far as custom code, either planned and installed or planned and a few steps from done), and common systems are just a click-install away.

The grid is mapped and being installed (though it needs to be desced beyond placeholders of lists of general area and 'what is there'). Many newsfiles are already written (character creation transcription, mortal/near-mortal expansions from the baseline mechanics, policies for alts, staff alts, character age, and others).

If this sounds interesting to you from a staff perspective, please feel free to PM me. If you're interested but want to talk more about the staff positions and my thoughts on that, PM me (or plug me here). If you just want more info on the game, plug me here. I'll see what I can throw out that might sound neat and cool.