@aria "These things don't count as work, they're fun! And you can totally put some of them aside to do this other thing that you say you want to do that will eventually replace the work you do for a living!"
Okay, everything you just listed ALL COUNTS AS WORK.
Goddammit, friend_07, stop trying to "fix" my issue with advice that doesn't work unless I am
But thanks for reminding me, on what was starting out to be a cool, chill morning, why I continue to struggle with depression. Good job. Had a great weekend, but that shit's over now.
@aria I've had that linked to me TWICE today.
@aria Goddamn you hit me with all the feels at once.
Yay here's to hoping things get righted soon!
@saosmash haha. You logged in. I paged you some things. You logged off. It's all good. 
@saosmash said in What is your turning point?:
Oh my gooood the immediate page thing. This is the equivalent of being pounced the second I walk in the door. Whyyyyyyy.
WHO WOULD DO THIS?! WHO DOES THIS? (I'm sorry I did this to you like... literally 10 minutes ago)
How to instantly disengage me:
How to instantly engage me:
@stabeest said in MU Things I Love:
Played out the conclusion of a storyline that has taken over half a year to reach. The ending was so much better than I expected. Utterly tragic and with consequences that have irrevocably changed all the characters involved.
Thank you, @Darinelle. Who would have thought that a small request to look into a tiny piece of backstory would have turned into this?
You're very welcome. It should be mentioned that @Apos and @Kanye-Qwest helped me brainstorm who he was and his backstory right at the beginning, and that willingness to add to the narrative turned into this. In the end though, it's y'all who made it what it was. I just set the scene and well. Hrm. Wrote some truly creepy shit.
Players with integrity.
Players who are willing to have a scene with an NPC and not get upset when they don't get every question answered.
Players who get a surprising result to their action, a result that is negative, and instead of melting down they turn it into an opportunity to add depth to their stories.
Players willing to treat serious things seriously even though it's objectively FUCKING HILARIOUS.
@shincashay I liked the Revanche cycle for political fantasy. Winter's Reach is the first book and is on Kindle Unlimited.
@ganymede said in MUSH Marriages (IC):
I think we're actually pretty close to the same opinion, but are stating it different ways.
I agree with all three of your points. And I also agree with your summation. I don't plan my life around anyone online, and that's generally one of my lines. I do try to honor my commitments online when I can, but, of course, real life obligations come first, including to my partner.
But with that line in mind, I do try to arrange things OOCly when I can. With that boundary in mind. My IC partners are never going to take precedence over my RL friends, family, children, acquaintances, or activities.
Yes, that. Exactly. Sane is good. Boundaries are good. OOC drama over IC shit is bad. IC drama is a-ok. That.
@ganymede I think we probably fundamentally agree and I'm not expressing myself as clearly as I like. In my head, those three statements were independent of one another, not a series of increasingly crankier comments. As I see it, there are three major roadblocks to having a successful IC relationship:
Being in an IC relationship doesn't mean my character is ONLY going to RP with THAT ONE PERSON, and saying or implying otherwise is ridiculous.
Being in an IC relationship on one character doesn't mean I'm not going to play alts with other people, and really doesn't mean I want to play my alts with your alts and have them also be in a relationship.
Being in an IC relationship is not the same as being in an OOC relationship, so I'm not going to schedule my world around you. I'm not going to send you a messenger ICly and wait until you tell me we didn't have anything planned before I make plans to have events, and I am not going to merge our schedules so we can spend the most RP time together as possible. When I go to RP with someone if you aren't invited, I don't expect OOC flak. Now, we could ICly fight about it, sure. But don't page me oocly about it, because I don't care and you're not my spouse and I don't care.
I care if my husband feels excluded. I care if he feels like I'm spending too much time with other people and that his needs aren't being met. I would expect him to care in reverse (and he does). These are, to me, reasonable expectations that come as part of being in a RL relationship. I do not expect to spend the same time or energy maintaining an IC relationship because, well - it's not my actual relationship and I don't want it to be. There are lots of healthy behaviors I do in a RL relationship that I'm wholly uninterested in doing in an IC one from an OOC perspective.
@ganymede said in MUSH Marriages (IC):
@darinelle said in MUSH Marriages (IC):
"We are not OOCly married or together. Do not treat me as though we are."
Yeah, this isn't a great response, because I wouldn't tolerate that shit from my partner either. Plus, it throws just so much shade.
I'm not sure what shit you're talking about. I expect my partner RL to talk to me about concerns, and I am willing to work on our relationship and make compromises and do things I might not otherwise do for the sake of my RL relationship. To a certain extent I am willing to do that ICly for an IC relationship, but I am not willing to discuss OOCly how our relationship is making you OOC feel. We aren't married and we aren't together, don't expect me to deal with your emotional baggage.
@arkandel said in MUSH Marriages (IC):
"Hey, I play alts whose RP is separate than the RP we have together. I do different things sometimes, it doesn't mean I don't like the RP we have." If there's any pushback on it, offer to figure out a way to transition out of the RP you have with that person - and if there's more pushback I'd advise to turn the offer into a mandate. Don't argue the point, just declare it; this signals your boundaries aren't up for debate.
This, so much this. And also:
"I play my character who is with yours ICly, but that doesn't mean I play my character with yours exclusively. I do different things and RP with different people, but that doesn't mean I don't like the RP we have."
And lastly:
"We are not OOCly married or together. Do not treat me as though we are."
Those three boundaries are huge and should be instantly respected - and anyone who pushes them is an instant no from me for any sort of deep, meaningful relationship.
@deadempire IME your biggest pitfall in this is that you leap in and hope for the best before they've had a chance to prove you right or wrong. Which is basically what almost everyone does on any MUSH ever anyway, so it's not like you're alone in this!
Just give people a chance to show their colors before you intertwine things. It's the same as "I know we've only been RPing for a day but it's been a great RP days, here are all my secrets!" It just has such amazing potential to go so hideously wrong.
*Edited to fix a spelling error.
@deadempire said in MUSH Marriages (IC):
Where do you find these people? Teach me your ways! I've gotten chastised for... Rping on my alt while with my partner, for TSing on my alt while me partner was in a GMed scene, for my character being sightly rude to her character for in character reasons, FOR HAVING A RELATIONSHIP ON MY ALT...
How long did this relationship continue? Too long. Just. Too long. Didn't get married. Glad I didn't.
Well. For one thing, I don't tend to RP a relationship or even pursue a romantic relationship until after I've some indication that the player is sane. In terms of MUSHing, this means I spend an ETERNITY RPing with someone before I'm willing to move it forward in any way. (As an example, Leona has existed since alpha on Arx, I've been RPing her most of that time, and I have considered a romantic relationship of sorts with exactly -one- person, and that was only in the last 3? 4? months)
But at any sign of jealousy, weird pages about who I'm RPing with, unrespected boundaries, or any weirdness OOC I'm going to be ICly uninterested and OOCly uncommunicative. Ain't nobody got time for that shit.
It means my characters tend to not be romantically entangled, but also when they are the players tend to be ok. Aldrin's player has been my favorite by far though - he continues to be amazing people.
Mine was on Firan, and the whole relationship lasted a couple of years IRl I think. The other player was exceptionally sane, and so our RP was full of drama and emotion and fun but there was nothing OOC but a good friendship with mutual respect. Sometimes when I travel to his City for business we hang out and grab dinner and catch up. It was one of the best things I got out of Firan, that arc and that friendship.
It ended when my character died, but the friendship remained.
Quack.
When dealing with characters who are antagonistic to me or who I might have to work in direct opposition to (or against whom I'm already working in direct opposition), I find the number of people who can handle that and also be friendly oocly is very, very small. There's often that level of "oh, you betrayed me/my character, I thought we were friends!" that is shitty because I try really hard not to talk about IC things OOCly. (I don't always succeed but I do try) So often if I'm friendly oocly it's not until after the player has proven their ability to deal with a shitty hand and not freak the fuck out, and until that happens I'm standoffish.
Also, you were a good Tovell. You'll be missed.
My response to this comment is really in line with @Kanye-Qwest here (perhaps unsurprisingly).
When I think "make it fun for me!" as a GM what I mean is... please, please GOD if you want a scene with me, please make it interactive. Put yourself into the plot. Bring your A game. If you want to do diplomacy, BY GOD DO DIPLOMACY. If you want to negotiate, NEGOTIATE. If you want to set the world on fire, SET THE WORLD ON FIRE BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DON'T TAKE MY TIME AND THEN SAY "Well, you tell me what I should do to win my objectives, ok?"
No.
JUST NO.
Come up with a plan. Come up with ideas. It's ok to run them by me. "Hey, I want to do X, and I was thinking about doing it by Y series of actions. What do you think? Is it super crazy or super /genious/?" I spend so much time telling people's stories, and making up lore, and answering their questions. But for it to be fun for me means it needs to be collaboration.
It's the difference between a request saying:
"I am lost, so I am praying to the gods for guidance on what they want me to do next."
and...
"I am lost, and I have thought about doing X thing or doing Y thing or maybe doing Z thing, and I think I want to do Y but I know I should do Z, and I struggle. So I'm praying for guidance."
Both are requests for guidance. One requires me to pull a plot out of my ass to help you fulfill your clearly unspecified character goals. The other is concrete. It shows you're willing to put into it what I'm willing to respond with. It's much easier because it gives me hooks. It shows you're invested and involved. You're interested. You're willing to put in the time. And you're willing to tell me what makes it fun for you, so I don't spend all my effort thinking of something I think would be cool, only to find that no, that really wasn't what you were hoping for.
This one time, someone did the 2nd thing and I wrote something like 3 pages of story/lore/backstory for them, because they were so invested in it that it inspired me. That was fun. That was a lot of fun. I want to help make story - I can't do that if you won't give me hooks.
From a GM side it's kind of the equivalent of the person who "plays things close to the chest" and so never shows an emotion or any vulnerability but also never gives any hooks at all. Or the one who sits silently and drinks in a tavern full of people and never engages. Or the one who hovers outside a conversation but never gives any hooks to involve them or interact. What possible reason would I have to seek out those characters? I don't have anything to work with, and no sign that there's any collaborative roleplay even possible.
But the same thing translates as a player. If you're expecting to show up to a scene and be THE SUPERSTAR and then have everything revolve around you 100% of the time, you're destined for disappointment. Sometimes it IS all about you, but those times are exceedingly rare and they should be. So if you show up to a scene with 5 players, be ready to allow it to be about everyone else about 80% of the time, and you get 20% of the action and maybe that's you in the spotlight for a major decision, or you landing the killing blow on a monster, or your sarcastic quip being highlighted in the next GM pose - but give hooks for other people, and give them room to do their thing too.
I could go on. There are so many ways "Make it fun for me!" can be interpreted, and so many ways to do it that I just am consistently baffled by people who are no fun at all to RP with - there are SO MANY WAYS TO MAKE THINGS INTERESTING FOR OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL AS YOU.