Best posts made by Devrex

@Derp I really like needing some sort of justification for XP spends. That's how I generally try to spend XP anyway. But I don't know if logs are the only way to do it. My character is doing stuff during all the hours I'm not playing.

Something like Modern Nights' Downtime system might offer some solutions there. For example, if my character is out there actively practicing how to be a better driver but I can't have a scene around that because...that's not necessarily going to be a great scene for anyone else...well, perhaps I could spend my Downtime to buy that Drive stat.

Though admittedly...that is a lot of dadgum paperwork and so @Ghost might be right...just having an "You may only raise this stat again in X days" system hardcoded right in might be the only sensible answer.

@il-volpe If you aren't (fun/a good fit for the game/on a character that matches your desired RP experience the way you hope it does) then (time/energy/theme mismatches/anxiety/circumstance/plot issues) doesn't help.

It's a pair of sliders and the way each of those sliders are set produces some level of difficulty between Casual Mode (getting RP is as simple as reaching out your hand) to Nightmare Mode (everyone goin' "oh, look at the time").

This one was from years, years, and YEARS ago, but it pops to mind. It was on a MUSH, though I believe it was an invite-only space.

We're in a fantasy world. And I'd spent, oh, six months building up this villain. She was unstoppable, very powerful, etc., etc., etc.

Well, one of the players had done some subplot work to earn himself an airship. The flagship, in fact, of an airship fleet. So when he poses into the scene where the villain is now up against the players in person, he poses that he brings basically every player who signed up in on his flagship except maybe the one or two who had already posed being toe-to-toe with her.

And declares: "We shoot her with the flagship."

I had to pause momentarily, tilt my head to the side, and admit: "Well, there's no save vs. flagship."

I didn't let the flagship steal the whole show; I let it significantly weaken her to the point so that the ground crew could contribute as well, but shooting her with a flagship certainly made the fight easier on everyone involved.

I am friends with many of those players RL still, and "No save vs. flagship" has remained a fun tagline in-joke that you can sometimes hear one of us saying decades later.

@faraday This 100%. There was once a post...somewhere, I don't remember where, where someone said, "You support the game just by logging on when you can because that encourages others that there is fun to be found here, but if they see a dead WHO they'll just assume that's not the case."

Those 4 people are unavailable to the rest of the playerbase if they're "having a private card game" or they're playing off in a room, but if they're playing off in that room using the framework I gave them, not getting in staff's face constantly, are never bothering other players or creating any problems, and one or two of them do in fact branch out and those two stick around in part because they are having so much fun with the first two then win, win, win.

Why anyone wants to shove their face against the windows of the 4-Sammich Club and glare because they might be having some fun instead of going off to find their own fun is beyond me.

@il-volpe Well yes, obviously if one person is logging on 15 staff alts or OOC bits or whatever then yes obviously that stops being effective, but it's also not the only thing people look at to see if RP is happening. Before logs I hit a quick +where. People in rooms with each other? Yeah okay good enough. On Ares I now scan the logs. Logs happening? Yeah okay good enough.

Which means yeah. They're still contributing. And like @Faraday said, staff creates a framework. It's more like hosting a block party than a cocktail party. And yeah as a staffer I sometimes will check in, you having fun, can I help out, oh you're interested in that plothook go talk to XYZ guy he's got info...but that's all the staff can or should be expected to do.

Nobody, and I can't stress this enough, owes anybody their creative labor for any reason, nobody owes anyone a chance, "and hey I apologize but I'm already booked up" isn't something jerks say, it's something people with full schedules say. If you've been waiting and waiting to finally get to sit down with your friend who has just this tiny handful of free hours and his story is important to your story and you sit down harmlessly to have a really story-relevant convo with them being told "Well shame on you for saying that was private" it's like...but...but I can't have that convo with them if other people are around, because we wouldn't, because it's not appropriate for that, because the whole dynamic changes, so you're like...maligning the casual player who has one to three nights a month and you're maligning the player who really enjoys playing with that player...and who might not be as into playing with everyone else if they can't get their story bits with their friend too, but who has more time than friend and will certainly seek out others on other nights of the week.

And it still really does materially work out for the playerbase. @Derp has allowed himself to be drawn in my wake while I say hey let's go follow this plot lead (and RP with other people), here's this guy, I don't know if you'll like him, but if you wanna come you'll welcome...and he goes ahead and does...or some story springs up between us and we do indeed spread it to other players. Things have happened on behalf of other people just because we were given some space and breathing room to play the way we needed and wanted to play.

And for the love of god, saying, "Hey in general this other tactic might be more effective at getting what you want because it makes you more fun" is not the same thing as saying "just suck less." I cannot think of any time in the history of any game I've played on where I've needed to get a bit insular myself for mental or physical health reasons or working-two-job reasons or working-14-hours-a-day-reasons where "just suck less, my guy" has been the actual answer.

@il-volpe Are they saying that? Or are they saying:

"I wonder what would happen if you yourself brought some nice sandwiches to the potluck? If you baked some lovely homemade French bread and got the really good deli meat and whipped it up with a fine aioli and put crisp fresh vegetables in it?"

Would you even care what the Original Sandwich Group is doing at that point, or would you be too busy passing out your own lovely sandwiches?

As another way to look at this:

Sandwich Bob brings 4 sandwiches. It's all he can afford. Only 4% of the attendees get to enjoy his sandwiches.

Joe also loves Bob's sandwiches. He brings some casserole. About 25% of the people there eat the casserole.

Henry loves Bob's sandwiches, and he bakes brownies every month and about 50% of the folks there feast on those brownies.

Jane loves Bob's sandwiches. She has one every time. She also brings that really fantastic dip people like and that feeds a good 75% of the attendees. Jane is staff. She's not the host but she busts butt to do dishes and manage the Google cal and help organize the venue.

And of course, there are more servings of everything else for everyone else cause...the sandwiches fed people.

On the contention that Bob is ruining things for everyone cause everyone is awful jealous of those sandwiches, after reading Jane the riot act for selfishly accepting a sandwich and making sure Bob gets a little dip, Host loses Bob's invitations in the mail.

Joe's casseroles disappear next, cause he was really there for those sandwiches.

A few other attendees really liked the casserole, and Joe, so they go find a different potluck.

Henry holds on awhile longer, but damn, Joe's casseroles were kind of integral to his experience...so he goes where Joe went.

Jane, dutiful soul that she is, keeps on for a bit, because there are other people counting on her and her dip and her labor and she doesn't want to disappoint them no mater how much her own experience has been diminished...but at 1/2 energy. The dip just isn't as good, she delegates some of that other labor to someone else or just doesn't do it, Host has to either pop in and do it or it doesn't get done...

See where this is going? But by god, Host sure showed Bob for his rudeness and the person who complained to Host to make sure Host did that because they felt lonely and left out gets...well...what?

@krmbm @meg Look, creating a hostile environment, on channels, no less, is behavior that can (and would) be seen and responded to. It probably wouldn't take too long to pick up on it. People being aggressive or passive-aggressively rude for any reason is enough to get me telling them to cut it out even without DNCs or a history of stalking, and if they keep doing it well now they're violating the "You kept on when someone asked you to stop" policy, and out they go.

I really don't understand why we're turning this whole thing of "setting down rules" and abiding by them into "you terrible abuse enablers."

If we wanted to read some of y'all's arguements in the worst possible light, we could say oh ok, so if I come on your game and am only there a month, minding my own business, and someone thinks I happen to be someone who wronged them ten years ago (I'm not, in fact, or I didn't) or because I don't click with you well enough to become your friend then as soon as someone who has played there three months and who you like okay lobbies the accusation I'm going to find myself with my reputation smeared. No stopping even to get my side of the story, or even to verify if I'm the fellow in question.

But I don't read it that way, because I'm not trying to read you in the worst possible light. I hear you saying you really care about protecting your friends (and others) from abusive behavior and cool, we can agree on that, I really care about that too. I disagree on how to get there and why it's important to go about getting there in a certain way, but I'm not interested in maligning you over that disagreement.

It would be kind if you would stop maligning those of us who follow the other philosophy in your turn.

@greenflashlight I think you are being unfair. I think you took that straight to the most extreme hyperbole possible. It certainly doesn't match up with the reality of how I have seen Derp handle people who need help. If you meant it to be a demonstrative example, or to get your own back somehow, then we've moved far afield of the point. We have gone from a civil discussion about principles and best practices and the pros and cons of two approaches to basically just attacking Derp. Heck, a few folks have said this is now just about attacking Derp for some past threads, and we have now moved so far past "constructive" it's not even funny. I have watched Derp be the first to jump in and defend people who need help.

Since I'm AFAB, and didn't start transitioning into well into my 40s, I hear you when you say, as you seem to be, if I try to give your words their most civil possible reading, that you are concerned that asking people to provide some sort of evidence of wrongdoing is accusing someone who has been hurt of lying, and this is a systemic thing that often happens to women, and that's something that is a societal problem. And I suppose, taken to its worst possible extreme that people could indeed do that...but that does not do anything but say "things taken to their worst possible extremes have bad results."

A measured, careful, moderate, and quiet attempt to discern truth while asking people to hit a report button on a system that literally tracks your pages all the way back to the first page you send and can pull them up and send them on is nothing like that worst extreme. Especially when "hey, this is the way things work around here, please be prepared to at least do that much and this is why" is right on the tin.

This is why isn't BECAUSE ANYONE WHO CLAIMS ABUSE IS A LYING LIAR WHO LIES.

"This is why" is I believe, I believe, because I wrote the policy and asked Derp to help me enforce it, that an evidence-based society is one I want to live in, not a mob rule society.

I believe it having gone through all sorts of the same sort of stuff y'all are talking about, feeling all alone because there was nobody to help me, knowing that, knowing I had nothing, and still believing in that principle. I believe in it strongly. I believe in it to the bottom of my heart. I believe that most of the time, these asshats are just not that clever, that the trail is there if people will just share it.

@wizz But doing guesswork based on gut feeling is not equally arrogant, just in the other direction? If the premise is, "manipulators are very good at fooling people" then how do I know the person who flings the accusation isn't trying to manipulate me into kicking someone off my game so as to ensure some evidence they have doesn't get out? If they're really this masterful, then an approach of "Ok, someone said someone else is bad, they gotta go" is just as bad.

We all gotta draw our baselines for how we will protect our communities and if there were a perfect answer there would be no room to have these discussions, but there is not a perfect answer. And again, letting me see the log where the person was being manipulative and giving me the chance to pick up on it doesn't hurt. Sometimes these victims aren't sure if they're being wronged and in fact need someone to say "Hell yes, now let's talk about how we deal with it" and by asking them to submit what the hell went on, we can then have that conversation.

@wizz Putting words in my mouth. I have said nothing about holding what happens next against them. Again. We are not talking about every MUSH ever. We are talking about a specific code base where everything is logged and pull-up-able, where the receipts are kept automatically.

On the places that don't have that? I would work things a different way, and have done, because you go with the best you've got.

And I have never once advocated for victim blaming. So again, you are making personal attacks where none have been lobbied at you in turn.

Folks don't have to run a whole hecking plot, either. More folks just willing to run a one-shot or two would be helpful.

Heck, it would be pretty great if more folks would be willing to come up with creative scene pitches and then start grabbing folks to go get into a one-off situation. Momentum can build off that stuff, scene-by-scene. That takes a lot of the pressure off of 'run plot' but elevates a step above 'So Danny was down at the bar today...'

Creating a one-off doesn't necessarily require people to be paragons of creativity. Just kind of asking yourself what was happening to your character an hour or two before you got there to play them can spark some cool shit. Why is Danny covered in mud and hauling around an Igloo cooler with a weird thumping sound inside? Dunno, but I bet someone would have a fun night figuring it out.

When many of us started MU*ing, we were in college, had far fewer responsibilities, and had far more stamina.

Now most of us have demanding jobs and a whole passel of responsibilities. Homes to clean. Errands to run. In some cases pets to take care of. Or kids to take care of. Or elderly parents to take care of. Or gardens to take care of! Some of us have chronic illnesses.

Stamina is at a premium for most of us too.

But many of us still enjoy text-based RP, writing, storytelling. And I've been thinking for a long time about techniques that could be used to help a game, overall, be more do-able for more responsibility-laden hobbyists.

Have you seen things that worked on other games? Had thoughts about what would help you? Had things you thought were worth trying? Would love to hear about it!

@hella I'm a little self-conscious posting this but...a) I second @Juniper and b) I think letting yourself cry, if you haven't. You are losing something: experiences, a creation that had a part of you in them, certain dynamics that can't be replaced, a story you invested in or followed.

@misadventure Oh the latter, just prompts. I don't know, like maybe the flight attendant armed with a sonic toothbrush comes up with some really great idea. That person knows their character's strengths and if they can use them in a way I can't think of for myself then right on. If they can pull off the rolls they gotta pull off, equally right on. If the rolls go bad, I proceed with making their character's day that much more complicated. I might raise an eyebrow when the non-combat glass jaw shows up at a scene that I think looks like heavy combat, but if they can find a reason to be there and a way to contribute, great.

Now what I do get irritated at is when Captain McGlass Jaw gets mad at me for not coming up with some specific way for Captain McGlass Jaw to shine. Like...dude that's your job, I'm over here being the rain and the engines and the guy with the gun, you tell me how you Awesome.

@Hella Just being able to leave a scene and come back to it.

It's a double-edged sword though...because a lot of times players are like "oh hey it's cool if this scene takes three months, right?" whether you set it as "async" or not, thus slowing down the whole game and sucking the energy right out of it. It's like the culture of Ares has shifted from MUSH to forum-based RP...which is awful, because forum-based RP is universally too friggin' slow to get anywhere.

It's not like there on every Ares game, but the phenomenon has killed a few of them.

Just adding my own voice to this...I appreciate it too. Reading fewer posts, but knowing the posts I see will be civil and thoughtful is a pleasure.

@ZombieGenesis This whole post pretty much sums up my experience and why I am no longer playing anywhere, running anything, posting much, or running stories anywhere unless it's for a handful of friends via tabletop. It's not worth it, I'm so super tired, and every time I consider summoning up enough energy to do anything of the sort, I remember what the costs are going to be, nope, right out, and go do literally anything else. I grieve sometimes, because this was a big part of my life for almost 30 years too.

@Ghost: you clearly run with a very different crowd than I've run with.

Could you please tone down 1) the depiction of absolutely everyone in this hobby as some sort of sicko, including, by implication, the very people you're debating this with and 2) the extremely graphic language you're using to describe certain acts, as that was intensely uncomfortable to read?

You don't really know the motivations of everyone who uses PBs or likes them for every reason they like them, and while it's possible AI art could be a better choice, there were many constructive ways that you could have said that that did not have to include making everyone who has ever used a PB feel like garbage.

@rightmeow For heaven's sake, if you didn't read the comments how the heck do you know what anyone is saying?

@kanye-qwest said in The hog pit thread titled Admin Derp:

@ganymede said in The hog pit thread titled Admin Derp:

when the situation has been dealt with to my satisfaction,

How long does it take to tell Derp he should step down?

@devrex said in The hog pit thread titled Admin Derp:

I wonder if people would be so comfortable reading an unemotional statement of legal procedure as an attack if it had come from a woman.

Absolutely disgusting, my guy. Get out of here.

Why? He was essentially told to sit down and shut up. It’s a valid question. Or maybe I should be asking if an unemotional legal analysis would be taken as an attack if made by anyone but Derp.