Best posts made by faraday

I view MUSHes as a collaborative story, so keeping elements of the story private runs counter to that general goal. I am transparent by default.

That said, my preference is not everyone's so I can understand those who may wish to not share, or delay sharing logs, hide their backgrounds, etc.

I would challenge the assertion that Ares encourages you to log and share every scene. The server doesn't care if you log (except insofar as you miss out on certain features - like participating via the web scene page or editing poses - if you don't); the server certainly doesn't care if you share. I think the fact that so may people do log and share scenes is more a commentary on the prevailing feeling amongst the players than anything the server is requiring.

@krmbm said in Interest in a Discworld game?:

I think FS3 is fucking awesome, which is why I used it even though I shouldn't have. Most of my "learn to code ruby" time is now spent making workarounds for the hackiness that I could have avoided by going a different route from the outset.

That's been what I've heard quite often when folks try to extend FS3. They either end up with something that kinda sorta works, but isn't great at modeling what they were trying to model (Stormtroopers of death with fullauto blasters). Or it kinda works, but it throws something else completely out of balance (deleting background skills and ending up with a bloated action list and exacerbated min/max issues). Or it kinda works, but they end up with a hacky jenga castle of code that they're constantly wrestling with, particularly when it's time to upgrade.

Ares is designed to be extended and customized. FS3 just really isn't. It's a carefully-balanced instrument designed for a specific task. That's why Ares supports multiple skill systems, and even has a tutorial specifically to teach you how to make your own.

ETA: If I sound like a broken record on this thread after thread, it's because I just want to see games succeed with the vision they want, and not a painful compromise they later regret.

@Tinuviel said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

@faraday said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

Folks can side-eye it all they want, but it's not doing anything that MUSHers haven't been doing for years.

Just because people have been doing it for a while doesn't mean it's not worthy of side-eye. I hated WoD timestops as much as anyone.

So then don't play in those scenes maybe? But if I want to spin up a multi-day scene to play with my friend from England whose timezone doesn't line up with mine, or my friend from Seattle who is super-busy with a new baby and can't get online for hours at a time, then that's my business, not yours. Allowing more flexibility hurts nobody and enables RP that simply wouldn't happen otherwise.

@Thenomain said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

@Auspice said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

@Derp

Ares web portal supports YouTube videos.
MediaWiki doesn't

That makes it an auto win in my book.

Because people referencing ten million images wasn't enough bloat.

Fan.

Tastic.

There's no "bloat". It's an embedded youtube link. You can do it on any wiki on earth, Ares' just has a shortcut to make it easier so you don't have to copy/paste iframe code.

If you don't like it, just maybe don't click on the link? But wrongfunning other people for wanting to express their creativity on their character's profile page - whether through images, youtube, spotify playlists, pinterest boards or whatever - is exactly the kind of senseless hostility that makes it hard to retain new players.

@Ganymede said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

But I’m not going to pretend it doesn’t exist elsewhere. I don’t play MMORPGs or games like Fortnite because of the people I’ve bumped into.

Yeah, I mean... I've encountered just as much toxicity from the MMO, video game and TTRPG communities as I have MUs. And that's not even counting the internet at large.

We get what we tolerate, though. As long as people continue to stay on games run by insane staffers just because their friends are there, or they don't want to give up the char they've invested in or whatever, then such places will continue to thrive. And believe me - I understand all those reasons.

But it's kinda hard to muster a decent recruiting pitch when the environment is toxic. Imagine trying to draw somebody into a TTRPG that way. "You should join this D&D RPG I'm in. The GM pretty much sucks, half the players don't bother following the rules, and the one guy is a real creeper - but hey, it'll be fun!"

@Bad-at-Lurking said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

I wonder how many folks there are out there carving out their niche, at least moderately successful, that are basically just off this community's radar, largely.

Lots of people from those games you mentioned are here though. I see folks talking about how MSB is like... all WoD all the time or something, but there are plenty of non-WoD MUSHers participating. I think this community represents more of the MU community than folks think.

@surreality said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

I'm talking about the how, which is a different animal. It's an important critter in the ecosystem, though, and it's one that deserves a file of its own. This is more the territory of a mission statement, from where I sit -- something along the lines of:

Yes, this. Even within MUSHes, there is a wide range from "Even more RP-ish RPI" (closer to the MUD side of things, ala Arx, Firan, TGG) to "Really Big Tabletop-ish Group" (Shadowrun, WoD) to "Fast-paced collaborative storytelling" (a lot of the historical games, closer to the PbPost side of things).

All of these are MUSHes.

All of these are valid playstyles.

You could take any setting (WoD, Star Wars, Battlestar, Lords and Ladies) and chuck a game anywhere along that scale. Setting and server alone don't describe the playstyle. Games need to define where they fall on that third axis, and it would help to have a common vocabulary so that expectations can be more clear.

@Auspice said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

This could be done in a number of ways, absolutely. And many of them already exist.
Ares and its MU-in-a-box.
Arx providing its code open-source so people can use it as a structure for their own game (Ithir!).
Theno and his WoD code.

Except that two out of those three things would not exist if folks like @Griatch and I accepted the basic premise that tech doesn't help get new blood and that building better tech is "a waste of time". So I do reject that premise.

Tech is not the only answer, but I wholeheartedly believe it is an important part of the solution.

@Griatch said in Serious Question About Making A MU:

But for the record, Ruby (for Ares) or Python (for something like Evennia) are languages that are simple to learn. Both are also worthwhile to know outside the hobby (unlike mush softcode which has no use outside the mush world).

I have to disagree that learning to code for Ares/Evennia is simple. The underlying language itself (Ruby/Python) is more intuitive than MUSHCode by far, but that's not all you have to learn.

There's also the MUSH-specific layer, the tools (GitHub source control gives many newbies fits just by itself), database stuff (to some extent, even though it's abstracted away), and the web framework. That's a lot of moving parts, and it can be pretty overwhelming at first.

I say that not to discourage people, but to set expectations.

I do agree that learning to code for the new gen servers pays dividends that are more transferrable to the real world. And it's definitely easier to find a buddy who knows some ruby/python than to enlist one of a dwindling number of softcoders. Also, both Evennia and Ares have coding tutorials and helpful Discord/IRC chats for support of those who do want to learn.

It definitely can be done. I just don't want to oversell how easy it is.

@Packrat said in Serious Question About Making A MU:

You definitely need some solution to the code problem though...Something broke in it and I was too inept to get even basic commands like dice rollers and similar to function. It just sapped all impetus and things stalled out.

That's not a problem that has a solution. Trial and error is an essential part of learning any code platform. You break things, you curse a lot and eventually figure it out, you get better. That's a universal truth whether you're talking about MUSHcode or Evennia or Ares, or iPhone app development, or whatever. It's just the nature of the beast.

It helps a lot to have a supportive community. Ares has always had forums, but in the past year we also now have a Discord where it's easier to get "live" help with questions or code issues. I've heard that the Evennia IRC channel is also quite friendly.

Coding is not easy. Full stop. Becoming a proficient coder in any language/environment takes patience and persistence. But it can be done.

ETA: But just to reiterate - Ares is fully functional out of the box with several skill systems to choose from. Your particular game's vision may require custom code, but it's absolutely possible to run an Ares game without needing a coder.

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Punishments in MU*:

@Thenomain 3000 characters is a lot, too. I mean, yes, I'm a professional copywriter by training, I can definitely do it, but if I only have content for 1200 words, I am going to absolute -hate- bloating it into drivel just to meet some imaginary standard of verbosity. Long != better.

I haven't seen a game in decades that required thousands of words for a background. Yes, it did happen back in the day, but it just doesn't any more (at least not commonly). Most games just require a few questions like "why are you here (in the place where the game is set)" and "what's special about you". To which, by the way, "Nothing" is a perfectly valid answer.

I had a couple chars on BSG who were unfamiliar with the setting whose backgrounds were basically: "A nobody from <insert colony here> who graduated high school and joined the army." That's fine. The purpose of the background is to gatekeep people who want to be the "top of the class fighter pilot who also happens to be the son of a mafioso and a world-class expert in microbiology who won the medal of honor for being a big damn hero early in the war". Or the people who lack rudimentary understanding of the theme. Because yes, those things happen. And they're annoying to deal with once they get out there and RP.

We all have things we don't like doing. For Theno it's backgrounds. For me it's character personality quizzes. For someone else it might be stats. We all have to conform to whatever requirements the game sets forth for entry. That doesn't make it "punishment".

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Well, this sums up why I RP:

It's just important to differentiate between mushing because it's a fun and great exercise and social opportunity, and deluding yourself into thinking that your collaborative fan fiction somehow is the next New York Times bestseller. It's not.

Totally agree. MUSHing is writing where I don't have to do ALL the work myself and I can get immediate gratification of having other folks read what I've written and (hopefully) be entertained by it.

@marsmrsmars said in The Savage Skies - Discussion Thread:

No one ever said they were.

Not directly, no, but there was a statement that the game had an "issue with racism against Asian people." That's a pretty strong statement.

I think @Autumn raises a valid point about cultural bias/perspective/whatever, because on reflection, in America we (generally as a society) really don't equate the Imperial Japanese as being "just as bad" as the Nazis. There were war crimes, sure, but I don't think we generally view them as being in the same league. In fact, I'd say that equivalency would be frowned upon here as calling back to the anti-Japanese sentiment that led to Manzanar and other badness.

The fact that Asians may have a different perspective does raise valid questions about what concepts should be allowed, if the goal is to be as inclusive as possible. But realistically, I think a historical game is never going to be completely inoffensive. Heck, we can't even manage that on modern-setting games. It's actually quite impressive that Savage Skies has come up with an alt-history that is as inclusive as it is.

@Wizz said in Interest in Cyberpunk MU*?:

The authors behind the concept of cyberpsychosis don't understand why the use of extensive prosthetics leading to mental illness is a gross concept. It's a perspective we've outgrown culturally. Prosthetics are not dehumanizing, they're empowering.

I get where you're coming from. I agree that would be a gross concept.

I never really got that from the CP fiction/games though, personally. The theme was never about prosthetics. These characters (generally) aren't getting cyberlimbs because they lost their legs in an accident, or cybereyes because they were blinded. They're able-bodied people going to a cyberdoc and saying: "Please chop my arm off and replace it with an augmented version so I can lift cars and have wolverine claws and be a more effective killing machine". That, to me, does not cry "empowerment". YMMV obviously.

ETA, back on topic: I like the cyberpunk genre in general, but I'm not convinced it makes for a good MUSH setting. So no, I probably wouldn't play on one.

I like to see innovative ideas, but I don't think this is a sound proposition.

It's all well and good to say "advertise and get more players", but those players need to have somewhere to play, and those games need to be able to support the influx. MUSHes don't scale well, primarily due to limited staff bandwidth. You can't fix that by dumping a bunch of inexperienced new players into the mix.

Also the idea of onboarding new players is noble, but MUSHes are so very different. I question how effective it can really be at preparing people to play a real game.

Everybody has something different they want out of a MU. XP/levels/skill advancement has long been the traditional 'carrot on a stick' in RPGs, but it is by no means the only option. Players can be motivated through prestige or rank, recognition (i.e. ooc achievements or in-game medals for achievement), exploration (discovering something new), in-game tallies (like the BSG kill boards), or ticking off boxes on quest lists, just to name a few. And yes, some of us just come for the RP.

Statless games may be pretty rare, but I think that has less to do with a burning need for advancement, and more because we've come to realize that the playground version of cops and robbers ("I got you!" "No you didn't!") doesn't work too great on internet games with strangers.

@mietze said in Water finds a crack:

The fear/obsession that not being The Best means you are Worthless in any kind of rolled scene is something that dies really hard, in my observation.

Yes. On numerous BSG games, numerous times, I've seen dogfights where someone walks away from the scene saying things like: "This was a waste of time / I was useless / etc." just because their character didn't get a "kill". Even if they did damage. Even if they helped to take down one of the enemy planes. Even if they had banter with the other pilots. It's like if no glory was had, if they didn't get to be a big darn hero, then the scene was worthless.

I've never understood that, myself. But if that's the reason someone plays, then being "good" isn't enough. They have to also be better than everyone else.

I think most TTRPG systems just don't translate well to online environments, whether that's in video game RPGs or MUs. For instance, chargen mechanics usually have a lot of complexity that's easy(ish) for humans to deal with but hard to code, and typically more burdensome than most MUs need. Adventure mechanics are geared for arbitration by a central narrator and don't work well in decentralized settings.

The settings often don't adapt too well either. Whether it's a dungeon-crawling adventuring group, a Firefly crew, or a Shadowrun team, most TTRPGs are geared around 'troupe' play. You can do the whole "second life" thing living in that world in a MU, but IMHO that loses a lot of what made the setting cool in the first place.

Some settings I wish could adapt well to MUs would include Shadowrun, Top Secret/spies, and 7th Sea/pirates.

I'll echo what others have said and suggest that the game be mostly complete before opening. Most players, in my experience, want to join a game and hit the ground running. They don't generally want that ground to be constantly shifting under their feet. You can add things on later, of course, but make sure that the initial starting foundation is solid. That means:

• Stuff to get them going in the setting (theme files, chargen, app staff)
• Stuff for them to do once they get IC (plot hooks, grid rooms, plot staff)

How much staff you need depends on the type of game you run. I run games myself because I design the games to be runnable by myself. A game with lots of different factions to manage, diverse plots going on simultaneously, staff-heavy app processes, etc. is going to have very different needs.

@reason said in How to launch a MU*:

@pyrephox @bear_necessities @Seraphim73 Thanks for those thoughts! What's the expectation for web-based and/or asynchronous gameplay and your opinion on the degree to which that is table-stakes in the present day and age of the MUSH?

There are some folks for whom it's critical, but there are still plenty of games still running on the traditional MUSH platforms or Evennia that don't have built-in support for both web and async gameplay (or either). I wouldn't make a technology choice based on that factor alone; choose the game platform that best fits your needs on the whole.

@derp said in Sensitivity in gaming:

I don't think it's the GM's responsibility to try and keep track of everyone's preferences

That's where I fall on the matter. As a GM, that is frankly not a responsibility I'm comfortable taking on, and I don't think it's fair to try to make other people responsible for your mental health.

That said, I think that there's a middle ground between "any player can red card an entire scene at any time for their own comfort" and "too bad if you're uncomfortable, suck it up or leave".

Players should cooperate to find the best solution on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes that might mean I bow out of a scene I'm uncomfortable with so that the others can keep playing. Sometimes that might mean we collectively agree to FTB or gloss over some squicky bits so I can keep playing. It just depends.

I do think it's a good idea for games to provide some general guidance on what sort of content can be expected, and what sort you might want to provide a content warning for. But those are just structures to guide people, not a replacement for good communication.