Posts made by Ghost

@surreality Yeah the guy who faked an illness is basically dead to us. I mean, we rallied people that didn't even know him to help for a good cause, only to find out it was a big lie and he wanted tattoo money.

Finding out they're bilking (when they don't have any money to treat themselves) is disappointing. I would respect: "Hey, I dont have the money but I'm asking for donations to pick up the ps4 game because I wanna play with my friends". I wouldn't buy a $60 game, but I'd chip in $5.

Finding out we just got our friends to give them money for a lie is unforgivable.

So we pay closer attention these days.

@Ganymede Hah. No, nothing so weird or severe. Stuff like "Hey this guy is a former metal musician like me and I love talking music and wrestling with them BUUUUUUT..."

Neat people that may be wonderful conversationalist but just failing in the ethics department.

Or in MU terms: Great concept, cool PB, great wiki, wonderful writer...but a pain in the ass to deal with OOC.

It's always a shame when someone would be SO COOL if not for some behavioral issues.

Hence the: "I want to like them, but..."

@Aria Oh, yeah, theyre totally wanting to take advantage, which is why we tend to invite the people to post-thanksgiving who share. We've got a lot of friends who (when we visit) we bring coffee or a dessert. We've fallen into a ton of friends who (when they visit us) bring food, games, etc.

But these 5 or so people...tsk. Sucks. I want to like them so badly.

@Ganymede @Macha @Auspice My SO and I are pretty generous. We have a lot of friends who don't have as much as we do, so we often do things like cook dinners, help people with projects, etc. We have a yearly tradition where we invite people who don't have family in town for a post-Thanksgiving dinner. Thanksgiving with all the fixins. We are that couple that give out a lot of free food to homeless people, etc.

We found out a while ago this acquaintance of ours lost his job and had a cancer diagnosis and was asking for a few hundred to pay bills. We reached out to friends and got a group together, and he got some 400+ out of it. Later found out he never got fired or had a cancer diagnosis, but instead used it to buy a tattoo and then Facebook blocked everyone who gave him cash.

So, having said all this...I TOTALLY GET BEING DEPRESSED OR HAVING A HARD TIME. I love being there for my friends; it's a badge of honor to me that they can come to me when they need a friend. Having said that, "I'm in a bad place and it would mean a lot to me if someone bought me WWE tickets" just kinda pisses me off. It's also hard when you just see the same 5 or 6 people just constantly flip flop from "internet fighting" to "so depressed cant do anything but would be okay if someone did..."

Just brings me down. I'd love to help. I can even understand how getting a new thing would feel great! Still...it's grating because it makes me worry that I'm friends with some people who take advantage of others.

Constant stream of RL friends/family posting about how triggered or depressed they are is depressing, especially when their suggested fix is loads of attention or to buy them things like concert tickets, plane tickets, or video games.

@Wretched said in Do you care about other people's music?:

@Ghost I saw Black Lab open for the Cure in like 1996!

This isnt the Hog Pit so...

Truck ewe, icehole. <3. Jealous of that.

Edit: I should also add that I listened to the music on your character profiles and dug the effort put into creating that aura-theme for them through it. It wasn't wasted time.

I think you can learn more about the intended feel and thought behind a character through music than you can with PB pictures and blurbs about their backstory.

In fact, I tend to be more into scenes with characters who have heartfelt songs designed as their theme in a way. Even if the playlist is the kind of stuff the character listens to, it STILL helps flesh out the character far better than the person simply telling me who and what their character is.

Now...if the character does FIRE STUFF and has a song simply about FIRE? That's boring. But if the overall aura of the character is something akin to "surviving depression" and they have a playlist with something like "This Night" by Black Lab in it? They get bonus points and I become instantly more mentally attracted to their writing.

@Tinuviel said in Cyberrun:

Secondly, my main problem with this entire conversation - especially your parts of it - is that it is bluster. If you want to do something about it, like reporting it to law enforcement, or internet watchdogs, or whomever... do so. We're not the MUing police. Not by a long fuckin' shot. We don't have authority, or impact, or influence enough to just decide "Okay, MUing is banning this thing now."
Thirdly, this entire conversation needs to stop. You need to go take a break, write emails or call who you need to call, because us chatting about it isn't going to change anything. Literally ever.

I get ya, and this will probably be the last thing I type on this because this has been exhausting.

But why? Why should this community of people on this forum believe that they dont have the ability to protect, impact, or influence these things? How to watch for and keep child predators out is exactly the kind of thing that people could talk about and bind together as a community to watch for. If people will whisper network or Hog Pit report every damned sighting of VASpider, then why not this?

Gather reporting resources. Make it clear to these people that they arent welcome. Report places that allow it. Report log snippets if you see it. Be on the lookout for minors. Stop treating it like it's a feature on a game you can opt in or out of. Build the community with the standard that TS with minors and minor characters is unacceptable. Report places that do it to their MU providers. Get MU space providers to confirm and pledge to shut down any game that allows it.

The thing I think is a huge shame about this community is that there are some things I think the community should be proactive about like this, but instead people watchdog stuff like SPIDER or slut shaming or bad descriptions. It often feels like "dont rock the boat" or "dont risk my playspaces with this drama because I need it" are elements of the push-back.

In the end, you're right(1). If people want to deal with it themselves, they should. If they feel like not dealing with it is indifference? Thats their call. Yelling about it loudly is clearly not going make a difference and clearly some people don't see this as big of a deal as others do. For whatever reason that is...it is what it is.

(1) not a flippant "durrrrokayyyyy ur right"

Let me dial it back a bit and approach this from another angle...

Let's say that you are on one of the games (I know of PenDes and Cyberrun) that allow for sexual fantasy roleplay with characters who are minors.

Are people comfortable with the following concepts?

1. Pedophilia (paedophilia if you will) is described by the IDC-11 as "sustained, focused, and intense pattern of sexual arousal—as manifested by persistent sexual thoughts, fantasies, urges, or behaviours—involving pre-pubertal children."
2. Is there a problem with referring to players who partake in this kind of fantasy TS roleplay as pedophiles by definition?
3. That convicted sex offenders could be violating their parole by partaking in these games?
4. That in some countries written depictions of pedophilia fantasy content is illegal?
5. That rather than assuming you may cross paths with a pedophile and never know it, that you're partaking in an environment where their fantasies are normalized, and that you're sharing a clubhouse with pedophiles partaking in pedophilia?

The thing that I cannot get my head around is the fact that just because it's online and another adult is playing the child doesn't make it not pedophilia. I know some people play on these games and may not partake in it themselves, but there's this part of me as a father who isnt comfortable with the concept of just putting it out of mind and assuming that it's safe pedophilia simply because the game tells minors that they aren't welcome. On some of these games there isn't even character approval.

So, sure, we could assume because the policies say so that the pedophiles will always get their roleplay with another consenting adult playing the role of the child, but from a perspective of decency is that enough? If not pedophilia, then where is the line drawn? The MU community isn't the deep web, and while many illegal behaviors are roleplayed out in a safe environment (vampires snorting cocaine) there are definitely others more tied to potential real life disorder that are more dangerous to fantasize about.

And I can tell you the key difference between these Sex MU games and normal MUs is that sexual kinks are absolutely more personal and tied to the desire of the player. It's normal and healthy to want to be a Jedi. To good people, it should be abhorrent to self and others to want to fantasize sex with a child.

So, if anything, I'm supporting the idea of normalizing the use of the word pedophile for these people. I dont like that the community shares the hobby with pedophiles, and I think more needs to be done to protect these places from minors joining, because the current state of these things is a disclaimer and then the assumption that it wouldn't be the pedophiles or the community's fault that a pedophile groomed a minor on a MU because they didnt follow the policy.

Edit:

I mean, come on.

Its not like these are characters where someone sat down and said: "I want to artistically explore the mind of an 22nd century pedophile struggling with their disorder over neural networks" or "I want to play the role of a villainous pedophile being hunted by the police". The argument of "just because the character is a pedophile doesnt mean the player is" MIGHT apply in the sense of an author writing a pedophile villain in a book or Kevin Bacon being hired to play the role of one in a movie.

This is different. These are MUs that either openly state or imply that the focus is graphic, sexual roleplay and ultimately the decisions made on character choices at these places are more kink-focused than true storytelling focused. The point to creating a pedophile character in a story is NOT to celebrate it with hours of graphic molestation roleplay, but to use it as a vehicle for drama or villainous intent.

So, I really dont buy into the argument that the character being a pedophile doesn't mean the player is, because EVERYONE in the hobby knows that ultimately the player decides what kinds of scenes they want to roleplay out.

If you purposefully decide to roleplay out graphic sexual descriptions of sex with a minor...then it isn't the character who is a pedophile and thats not some shield you can hide behind. No. You are the pedophile.

@Wizz lol

Sure, I'm wrong about not being okay with pedophiles.

Clearly I'm not in the "Hey, guys, why don't we as a community do what we can to keep the pedophiles out of it?" corner of the hobby because it's apparently wrong to kinkshame simulated child fucking.

But alas, this was clearly a failed attempt to generate opposition to online pedophilia. Best of luck!

You two win. You are both 100% correct. Consider me corrected and educated. Let's leave these places alone and let them face their own risks.

@Tinuviel Oh, so if a player decides to perform a scene of simulated pedophilia on an adult-themed game, it's the character doing it?

@surreality Here is what I'm implying.

That many of this people have severe levels of 'not okay' with slut shaming, racism, homophobia, sexism, and creeping, but when it comes to actually using the word 'pedophile' to describe people on these games whose kink is simulated child fucking, I think too many people break out the 10 foot "dont rock the boat" pole.

Is there a bit of "WHOA, HEY NOW I...have a friend of a friend who...plays on that place. How about you just leave m-that friend alone!"? Yea, a little bit. Regardless, the priority balance between actually keeping pedophiles out of the community versus regimentally keeping an eye out for slut shamers is a bit askew, in my opinion.

Let's be adults. There's no grandiose high school pep rally election going on here, and not that there's any leadership here, I dont derive validity from my opinions based on whether or not people like you judge them a 9.5.

The difference between myself and some others is that I'm willing to call it 'simulated pedophilia', which I gather is an inconvenience to the people on this forum who partake in it, as is the suggestion to contact a watchdog service.

In the end, there's really no middle ground. There are people who do not approve of pedophilia (simulated or not), and people who are fine with providing sandbox space to partake in it. Clearly, my opinion is that it would be proper and positive for the community to do their part to keep pedophilia out of it, but if they choose not to I guess that's just one more consideration as to why the hobby isn't keeping new people for long.

@surreality Not running for Senate. Not looking for a yelp review. Just not okay with online pedophilia havens. Priorities i guess.

@surreality said in Cyberrun:

what sort of website would someone want PenDes to have?

When I wrote this I was directly alluding to the fact that an online gaming site wouldn't want to advertise 'online simulated pedophilia' because then it would fall onto the radar of watchdog groups and investigators. Of course they wouldn't have a website. Best keep the haven of pedophilia RP a hush hush underground club.

If only these pedophiles were also slut shamers, right? They'd be in trouble, then.

Confirmed that Cyberrun is not on OpenDNS watchlist.

PenDes doesn't have a website that I can find.
(^skeeeeeeeeeetch)

@Pandora said in Cyberrun:

Cyberrun is flagged and filtered, Net Nanny approved.

Where can I confirm this? Net nanny doesnt publish their blacklist sites, so the only way I see to know is to pay for their service.

Could you post a screenshot from your netnanny account that shows this site on it?

I know. Let's hope the people who have aren't down with people simulating pedophilia just go away. Those horrible, judgmental, oppressive anti-pedophiles, why can't they just fuck off and let people get down with TS roleplay with child characters without passing judgment? So rude.

So, if this is all just much-ado and nothing bad is going on, I'm assuming no one would be bothered if someone reached out to a watchdog group about the pedophilia RP at places like Cyberrun and PenDes to make sure that they're added to a watchlist for kid-safe browsing?

@Seamus I'll read through that later. I'm busy, but curious.

I generally understand the argument of "let the pedophiles be pedophiles online rather than in real life". It is less immediately damaging and while backed by lawyers might be deemed questionably legal (yet still distasteful).

However, logically you have to ask yourself the following questions...

By providing the role of a minor in a TS scene, are you..

1. ...contributing to pedophilia in a way that could result in it being taken to RL? Could doing so result in unexpected damage to strangers?
2. ...providing an outlet for a predator who is on the National Sex Offender Registry for sexually abusing a minor?
3. ...partaking in a loggable scene of minor-on-adult sexual roleplay that could be stored on the same hard drive alongside child pornography and could become evidence in a felony?

By providing the role of an adult in a TS scene with a minor, are you...

1. ...roleplaying with a child?
2. ...roleplaying with an investigator?
3. ...breaking the law?
4. ...creating a paper-trail for your pedophilia?

No matter how it's cut, it's not pretty. It's not something the community at large supports. While YES the immediate physical damages are less when you're an iPedophile, the truth remains that by arguing its right to exist you are providing a don't-ask-don't-tell zone where sexual abuse of minors could literally be taking place on your game. I think it's fucked up that more people aren't on board for trying to keep that out of the hobby.

By running/owning a playspace that allows depicted sex with minors are you...

1. ...breaking the law?
2. ...hosting logs of live action grooming of an OOC minor having a rendezvous with an adult who is grooming them?
3. ...providing a haven for sex offenders?
4. ...placing your safety and legality at status due to owning creating a space that allows this to happen?
5. ...actually comfortable with the concept that you allow depictions of sexual interludes with minors in a way that you wouldn't lose any sleep if someone reported your game to a watchdog group or investigator?

I suppose this could be tested. Has anyone consulted the Internet Watch Foundation as to whether or not this qualifies?