Posts made by Lotherio

The Runelords, pre Gabon and not locked into following canon.

@Jennkryst said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

The numbered dial on your toaster is for how many minutes the bread is toasted for, rather than the 'degree of toastiness'

Isn't the greater number of minutes relative to the toastierness of the bread though?

I'm only saying it's conceptual performance art. Appreciation is in the conceived concept by the artist. And for the artist and the art. I appreciate this as art.

If I'm looking for AI or machine driven with I'm more a fan of Roxy Paine's sculpture producing machines and works that take input from weather reports and the stock market to decide what to do next. Or Jean Tinguely and his self destructive machines.

Not Trying to lift the veil, just saying it's art. Great conceptual stuff, and kudos to the artist.

This is a performance art piece, it's a mundane car driven by the artist to make the theoretical point an AI car could be trapped. Its ssuming one could draw that faster than the artist did and actually trick the car into it.

@SG That would be awesome. Could make hit locations where a user is more susceptible to that damage. Armor could be virus protection. Lots of play room with vehicle weapons.

Toying with fortifications vs siege weapons currently. Had a turtle battering ram vs wall and archers battle. They had a medic on top just in case, who happened to take the worst hit.

Lots of potential. Hope the net working vr works out well for you.

An alternative to getting into rp on a political game, what I tend to do.

Recognize the politics. Make a char not directly involved; one that won't make a roll to determine some outcome for house or home or hearth. Those are fine, but what I do is different.

Take that character not directly involved, party sibling, one that just wants to raise crops, the one that is opposed to the meta conflict(s). Watch the politics and form a strong opinion for or against what is actually happening in news posts and gossip. Find someone and express your political views, argue if your opposed. Befriend if you agree, plot what to do about opposition. Try to have the non political type live in the face of the crazy politics going on, complain about the politics.

You'd be surprised where this can lead.

@icanbeyourmuse Silvertree is doing maintenance I just found out

@Runescryer the alt timelines what if type stories are good as adventure ideas on one theme comic places. Like Victorian era fantastic four or golden age of pirates avengers. At least for me, seems better as off shoot of bigger continuity, because sustained wild West or 30s Chicago seems to fall flat the more supers that get added to it. Sort of the same way I can't do small east coast WoD with 30+ players all playing supernatural beings in small town.

@Runescryer said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

Al Qadim: Not the full Forgotten Realms, just the Al Qadim setting. Exotic enough to generate interest, but also possessing enough familiarity

I would be all over this, keep the setting ditch the D&D part of it. My longest running TT campaign was weekly for a decade in Al-Qadim, could have tons of intrigue and all. But probably too niche to gain enough interest for large mu*, maybe better as OTT.

@WTFE said in UX: It's time for The Talk:

The hobby has absolutely zero interest in being helped. Look in this thread: a bunch of grognards being told "you know, this could be made simpler" are frothing at the mouth about how it's ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that there be bizarre prefixes in front of commands because ... REASONS! DIFFERENT, CONTRADICTORY REASONS!

This, the bold, is you asserting via hyperbole something no one has ever said; necessary yes, essential is a word I don't recall using or seeing used, fine difference. Starting to feel like arguments between MUD and MUSH all over.

Some have said there was reason to distinguish hard and soft code and remains to be a reason (it will very from game to game). I've said I look forward to what's to come. I'm a fan of Ares I can't wait to see what themes are spun off this system. Do I think it should be the only system. No. The same reason there shouldn't be one MUD or one MUSH. MUD was static, you had to know hard code or figure it out, MUSH opened some doors for variability and gave instructions (help files) for how to do this. Will new interface and new Mu*/web-based interface change things. Probably, probably in good ways, will you bitch about it. You already have, because going to hard puts the system back to static, whatever the designer puts into the system is there unless folks learn a new version of code. And as hobbyists, most of us, who don't code or compute for a living, we lack the interest to spend years learning again.

That + was added and some folks enjoyed that distinction happened. Not out of crappy design as you call it. That they didn't use the hardcode to add to that .txt help file and make it all system help versus separate +help is just what it is. It became easier I imagine to write soft code for some, because again as a hobbyist, many that do not code for a living, they learned code in the system and didn't want to spend years again learning hard code.

This hobby is dead.

I imagine someone said this about MUDs when MUSH happened, and look, MUDS are as ever popular as they've always been, weird. I imagine in some way, MUSH will remain the 90s tragic vampire writers who love prose over game system, I'll probably remain in that boat, and these developments of making simpler Mu* specific game systems and focusing on hardcore again for easy port and adaptability may open a few doors. Will it attract new players by the boatload; probably not.

No matter how shiny the box, there will still be learning curves. Dealing with other arguments like pose order vs 3pr, dealing with the game system 'dice' are more a guideline vs following the the dice where the roll, is it a 'game' or an 'interactive story telling system' where story is more important than fate of the dice. There are many more hurdles for new players aside from UX.

@WTFE said in UX: It's time for The Talk:

Enjoy your DOS box as well. It was made for you.

So it needs to come down to, bright, shiny, easy to use? Might as well be on an iPad or a Surface. We shouldn't even need clients, every game should be an approved App in the App store. If its broken, we should just be able to write a bad review, saying we get no support and we want the widget feature to work a certain way?

Because angry birds has revolutionized the game industry, every game should be angry birds but with a different skin.

Some people want different games with different features. Accepting Ares or Evennia or Mud as the game, and altering theme to tastes is fine and well, I support it, I personally enjoy Ares and will try Ares Mu*s when they start rolling. Am I going to attack the code base? No, I applaud there efforts.

Mu* and all those help files, was released at a time before internets and code schools on-line. They put all the damn information into the help files so you can make whatever you want, some people choose to put a + in front of some of that shit to identify it as unique to the system.

Imagine if they never put those help files in? Would there have been an increase in text games? Probably not, because it would have been 10 times more unfriendly then you all see it now with your 2017 hindsight glasses. Would a lot of the current developers of the new systems we're seeing now even have gotten into this 'hobby' to actually develop it?

News flash, people still use Unix and Linux for their operating systems. Why? Because if they don't like the pre-installed calculator app because it doesn't handle chaos math so well for their amateur meteorology hobby, they can find code that does or write/alter it themselves ... without writing a bad review of calculator app (whine, this calculator sucks, it doesn't do what I want to), or trying to find one that works just right.

News flash2, are the Unix people complaining about users? Man, all these app users and their demands for better UX, if they would just learn to code a little! Not as much as the app users apparently demanding a better UX.

This is a hobby, everyone is in it for enjoyment of the hobby. Do we need to continually insult people that have developed and will continue to develop?

@WTFE said in UX: It's time for The Talk:

It has always been silly. There has never been a need for users to distinguish between hard-coded or soft-coded commands. There has been crappy software, maybe, which forced this distinction but ... that is the very DEFINITION of poor UX.

This made me laugh.

Aside from soft code varies from game to game? No reason at all to distinguish from hard-code, that is constant from game to game, and user commands, built within individuals game and unique (used to be) to those games?

I remember the days all users were expected to contribute their own content. Whether making rooms, their own vehicles, their own multi-descers, some new coded game for the game room, or new potential globals? Whether or not pool tables or bowling alley code on Mu*s was ever needed, users had liberty to make these and they did. So yes, there has been and still should be, a need to distinguish hard-code and soft-code commands.

Users should understand because WoD LA Nights has +taxi to get around, that doesn't mean CoD LA by Night will have any taxis at all. There is absolutely reason to distinguish.

http://freecode.com/screenshots/c7/65/c765cc01f49a6ca7a91303d2f9e0133a_medium.jpg?1237057142

Ye olde Battletech mux map. The code is out there ...

It was one of about 5 to 7 displays used for battletech battles, the old games that utilized spawn windows because of the overwhelming info used during battles.

@SG While you just need a base skill as @faraday mentioned, 'command', you can add a modifier to the npc or player rolling for the duration of the combat when prepping combat to represent things like better training (or just higher morale for good rp/William Wallace speech pre-engagement). Glad it's working for you.

@SG I don't recall the code on passenger locations and gunners, but pretty sure you could be hit depending on location. Being in right flank while rolling for those troops could sustain an actual hit for being in that location. And spill damage. Center of troops with small chance of damage to nearby flank (vehicle was like engine hit could spill to cockpit). Or however you set it up. I'd love to see what you come up with either way.

@SG http://musoapbox.net/topic/1593/fs3/118

It can especially with use of hit locations.

@Ganymede said in Good Political Game Design:

@Lotherio said in Good Political Game Design:

TL;DR: Any actual intent of a PvP political game will end with OOC Drama and butt hurtedness. The remaining 'players' of high level don't care who is leaving if they are winning. Just is what it is. This is the main reason my preference is PvE these days. If someone is playing to win, they will play to win, even on an OOC level, despite what anyone thinks.

Simply, not true. Not at all.

What's been said before: politics is, at its hard, based on resources -- necessary, essential resources. Food; water; shelter. These are important things, and while I don't suggest that a MU* gets into such minutiae, it forms an important basis to design your own system.

What will be essential? What is the goal? How do you curb unlimited growth? Etc.

There are many systems. I think Sparks' DICE system has a good beginning for the political game, limiting everything by time. Building takes time; reaping takes time; questing takes time; maintaining things takes time.

I agree there are many good potential systems. But which one of these has longevity on/in a Mu* environment? Without OOC drama or people just leaving because of hurt feelings?

When I think longevity, its 5+ years on one character game. I've played several Mu*'s over the past 20+ years with length of stays this long. Not to call anyone out, but dedication to game and story is in the form of Jo and Z, enjoy Sweetwater Crossing RP still after all these years there in the refuge on BSGU.

If it comes down to resources (Catan), a strategy game with a few friends is best. Take every such game you've played with friends, at some point someone usually explodes because it became to serious and everyone stopped the strategy game to play Cards Against Humanity or Settlers of Catan (or not, I just like this game).

@ominous There were resources, the was a simple combat resolution system. The issue was never who shot who first. Trust me, it was the OOC ness that ruined Redemption. The other people that played the game for a while saw the same thing you did and played for fun just the same. The breakdown came in the first summer it was open.

As for coded resources and plotics, this was really big in late 90s. It collapses. Biggest example, Star Wars 1, which has ran well on 25+ years here. People could get resources, they did. They figured out how to play the game, float around on ships while they idled to trade and bank in game credits. It broke theme, the independent factions had enough fire power to wipe out the Imperials and Rebels all at once, which make it no fun to even by a pirate with criminal org if its that big.

If everyone is in for a strategy game, all good. Some of it spurs RP, but it hinders it as much too when the person doing the best +reports or strategizing will win regardless of RP. Kushiel Debut, some of us here made a house, and optimized all the characters at once, we had ridiculous spy networks out of the gate, political types, focused chars. Why'd it collapse at this level, the HoH was the Duc, and really, no more advancement, royal ruling house was set in stone its not going to change, ever. No offense KD, folks still there enjoy it.

Real quick, Diplomacy the Mu* sounds fun. But honestly, it would work best as a game simulation, where folks log in and join a campaign with a beginning and an end, then play it out in that campaign, rinse repeat. If not intended for long term play (years), it could be a waste of effort.

I'm in the boat that I don't want dice rolls and +commands for RP politics. I want it RP, like diplomacy, and I prefer PvE, though PvP can be had, just not system supported or enforced because, OOC Drama. Five players muster enough support to oust the NPC king and place one of their own on the throne, so be it, its mutual, it was played out. No one rolled on die, earned extra resources, converted others dominions somehow through dice. That's not a political RPG, its a strategy game, which would be fun in the right context.

A history lesson; The Reminder, again, of why Redemption Mu* crashed ...

Redemption was created by several individuals on the premise of fantasy world meets advanced tech world; old race dead, the fantasy humans surviving on wits alone. Thrust through a portal and intended as a prison, the portal collapsed, they make due on a large ziggurat like like structure that was formerly a massive city complex (Chozon style is as close as I can guess). Factions competing for limited resources, on the idea that players can and should be able to affect the politics.

Alpha, 4-5 other individuals recruited to be faction heads and really delve into the theme of the various factions. Different enough to sound unique, close enough to be competing for the same space; they're all descended from either prisoners or the wardens. I come in at this point, develop the Czeryn (I played Demos there). Czeryn, Shield and Tyr get some work, they're the main fighty groups. This is from January to March. Myself and most FH level folks are fully under the impression they will lose their position at some point, to keep the game moving and avoid it being static (ie, one PC and/or staff friend always 'running' things with no chance of advancement).

It moves into Beta phase, play circles form in the factions, others join. The premise for new players, the politics can change, they can influence the outcome of the game, takes hold. Things explode. By summer its 80+ unique connections at any given time, 120+ characters roaming about the grid. Beta is running from March to June and plans to just say 'open' versus beta are in the works.

The three staff meet with faction heads here over summer; about 6-9 players and those three staff at this point. The transition of power and changing the political landscape come up during that meeting, with pondering what the FH players can do going forward when they are not playing the IC FH. This is where it really explodes. One specific FH, the one running Shield, says they will refuse to just give up and will play to win. This attitude already drove off some other FHs as this FH had talked OOCly about stirring up RP with some of them, paging fun plot ideas, creating conflict and then, literally changing things ICly despite what they discussed OOCly. They were playing it like a real game of diplomacy against other OOC FHs. Thus began the slow migration of most FHs leaving the game, taking with them the unique contributions they had to offer as 'staff-lite helpers' that actually made the theme, because OOC drama.

The game went on for another year or two, but it was the Shield show thereafter, they won everything and where the heroes, which is what the one FH intended all along anyways. They became staff as the Head Staff and one Co-Staff left the game. Being honest about making it a game they wanted to win OOCly at that meeting convinced the other FHs they didn't want to be on some railroad. .

TL;DR: Any actual intent of a PvP political game will end with OOC Drama and butt hurtedness. The remaining 'players' of high level don't care who is leaving if they are winning. Just is what it is. This is the main reason my preference is PvE these days. If someone is playing to win, they will play to win, even on an OOC level, despite what anyone thinks.

Code or no code, there will be lots of drama when there is something big to win no matter how imaginary it is, in an enforced PvP political rpg/mu.

@Runescryer deja vu

My two cents. Good political game design: Diplomacy, Settlers of Catan, Civilization board games. Where the entire table is set up and everyone is chattering about plots and sub plots and trying to agree to disagree. Works well in TT RPGs, the group can OOC plot and plan to their hearts content, even against each other.

It ends for me as a MU* level RPG. For any good political game that is PvP in a Mu* setting, it is either really complicated strategy game, with lots of +requests or reports and staff determination, which really just cuts off the RP part. .. Or, the ones I have enjoyed were the ones where faction heads viewed their position as half OOC involvement. Sphere 1 needed something from Sphere 2, FH 1 had told FH 2 players were doing things, FH 2 could set up obstacles along the way. Without that, then as on most games, there are just a handful of people enjoying the politics and twice as many people hating the system and lots of OOC dramas that no one really needs. The ones with OOC involvement usually comes down to player involvement, and one sphere usually wins by having more active players, the others give. The group gets tired of that faction always seeming ahead and moves to others, favoring which ever group is next filled the most. And still in the end, lots of OOC dramas.

I tend towards PvE and competing for favors and jockeying for position on the same side which is fine, but not quite the level of politics I think most strategy political RP folks are after.

This probably doesn't help, but good political game design is best for small group of friends that can play it as a game and when feelings get too hurt, they can put it aside and play some other game together to have fun, like Mario Party.